From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Aug 10 15:09:28 2010 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, August 10 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3613 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: Door question RE: fsj: Door question Re: fsj: Door question RE: fsj: Door question fsj: Door question fsj: Re: FSJ Stickers and youtube FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 17:28:08 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Door question You are doing the usual method. May be the 50/50 acetone/ATF is a better derusting product. When you drill the head out, being headless, you may have enough of a stub to weld a nut. The phillips are not standard, as they have a fan washer. The torx seems to be substandard and seems not to be too reusable, unless they have received some loctite treatment, then a little heat is necessary. If you need some torx, I may have some left. I am about to see if I can retrieve more parts of those abandonned wagoneers, mostly trying to pull the rear doors as they are manual windows, with the phillips and YES, I am taking my impact driver, which I forgot last time. Cheers Michel > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Door question > Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 00:02:11 -0400 > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > I pulled the driver side rear door off my Wag this evening...squirted all the > bolts with Kroil, used the impact driver and the number 40 Torx to get > started. I broke one faster and managed to get the rest of them out without > too much trouble. I disconnected the wiring and set the door on some > sawhorses. I then took the impact driver (the one you hit with the hammer, not > the one that you hook to the air hose) and tried to do the phillips screws > that hold the hinge to the door. I got Kroil on both sides ...inside and > outside and I still managed to strip out the heads. Is this just standard > operating procedure that I get the thrill of drilling those screws out and > chasing the threads, or does it go with the territory of how rusty my Wag is? > Has anybody else run into this trouble? Are the fasteners something that I can > get at the Home Despot or the Fastenal store? How hard are they to drill out? > I was surprised that the rear doors are not obscenely heavy. Anybody got any > brilliant thoughts? or should I just break out the drill bits, the taps and > the cutting oil? > > Mark > 81 Wag ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 10:38:42 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Door question I use the impact screwdriver after soaking with pblaster overnight. First I try to make it slightly tighter, then back it off as that tends to break the rust loose. On some doors the "nut" is a flat plate with all three holes threaded into it. If you break the bolts, you just change the plate for one that doesn't have snapped off screws > From: mbalea-at-hotmail.com > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: Door question > Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 17:28:08 +0000 > > You are doing the usual method. May be the 50/50 acetone/ATF is a better > derusting product. When you drill the head out, being headless, you may have > enough of a stub to weld a nut. > > The phillips are not standard, as they have a fan washer. The torx seems to be > substandard and seems not to be too reusable, unless they have received some > loctite treatment, then a little heat is necessary. > > If you need some torx, I may have some left. I am about to see if I can > retrieve more parts of those abandonned wagoneers, mostly trying to pull the > rear doors as they are manual windows, with the phillips and YES, I am taking > my impact driver, which I forgot last time. > > Cheers > Michel > > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: fsj: Door question > > Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 00:02:11 -0400 > > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > > > I pulled the driver side rear door off my Wag this evening...squirted all > the > > bolts with Kroil, used the impact driver and the number 40 Torx to get > > started. I broke one faster and managed to get the rest of them out without > > too much trouble. I disconnected the wiring and set the door on some > > sawhorses. I then took the impact driver (the one you hit with the hammer, > not > > the one that you hook to the air hose) and tried to do the phillips screws > > that hold the hinge to the door. I got Kroil on both sides ...inside and > > outside and I still managed to strip out the heads. Is this just standard > > operating procedure that I get the thrill of drilling those screws out and > > chasing the threads, or does it go with the territory of how rusty my Wag > is? > > Has anybody else run into this trouble? Are the fasteners something that I > can > > get at the Home Despot or the Fastenal store? How hard are they to drill > out? > > I was surprised that the rear doors are not obscenely heavy. Anybody got > any > > brilliant thoughts? or should I just break out the drill bits, the taps and > > the cutting oil? > > > > Mark > > 81 Wag ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 14:49:45 -0400 From: wallacem7-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Door question When I get the hinge off I can likely sneak the plate out of the door and either make a new one or drill the fasteners from the old one...if I can weld some nuts onto the screws after i just break the heads off the heat cycle should help to free up the screws. The heads appeared to be #4 Phillips. I think I tore them up by starting with a #3 Phillips. I got all but one of the Torx fasteners out without too much trouble. I broke one, but I used the #40 Torx with the impact driver, and then with one of my two favorite ratchets (a longer 3/8 drive craftsman with a pivot head...my other favorite ratchet is a shorty 3/8 Craftsman with a pivot head). I bought a Craftsman #40 Torx and it is still functional at this point in time, but it is twisted. I'll get my free replacement when I am out and about. So I need at least one new Torx screw. If you manage to get the Phillips screws out of the abandoned Wagoneers I suspect that I will need at least three of them. My upper hinge appears to still have it's pin intact. So I will attempt to re-use that one. Are the door latches on the Abandoned Wags the older style or the newer style? I haven't gotten into it yet, but there is something that is *not correct* on my passenger side rear door. It closes too far and won't open without excessive force. Maybe just needs to be taken apart and greased, but may also be broken. I haven't gotten into it yet. Also how are the seat belts on the Abandoned Wags? My rear belts are pretty far gone, and I doubt my fronts are much better. If push comes to shove I still have friends from when I was a seat belt engineer who can probably re-web everything. Mark 81 Wag - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Blair To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com; wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sent: Sun, Aug 8, 2010 11:38 am Subject: RE: fsj: Door question I use the impact screwdriver after soaking with pblaster overnight. First I try to make it slightly tighter, then back it off as that tends to break the rust loose. On some doors the "nut" is a flat plate with all three holes threaded into it. If you break the bolts, you just change the plate for one that doesn't have snapped off screws > From: mbalea-at-hotmail.com > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: Door question > Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 17:28:08 +0000 > > You are doing the usual method. May be the 50/50 acetone/ATF is a better > derusting product. When you drill the head out, being headless, you may have > enough of a stub to weld a nut. > > The phillips are not standard, as they have a fan washer. The torx seems to be > substandard and seems not to be too reusable, unless they have received some > loctite treatment, then a little heat is necessary. > > If you need some torx, I may have some left. I am about to see if I can > retrieve more parts of those abandonned wagoneers, mostly trying to pull the > rear doors as they are manual windows, with the phillips and YES, I am taking > my impact driver, which I forgot last time. > > Cheers > Michel > > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: fsj: Door question > > Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 00:02:11 -0400 > > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > > > I pulled the driver side rear door off my Wag this evening...squirted all > the > > bolts with Kroil, used the impact driver and the number 40 Torx to get > > started. I broke one faster and managed to get the rest of them out without > > too much trouble. I disconnected the wiring and set the door on some > > sawhorses. I then took the impact driver (the one you hit with the hammer, > not > > the one that you hook to the air hose) and tried to do the phillips screws > > that hold the hinge to the door. I got Kroil on both sides ...inside and > > outside and I still managed to strip out the heads. Is this just standard > > operating procedure that I get the thrill of drilling those screws out and > > chasing the threads, or does it go with the territory of how rusty my Wag > is? > > Has anybody else run into this trouble? Are the fasteners something that I > can > > get at the Home Despot or the Fastenal store? How hard are they to drill > out? > > I was surprised that the rear doors are not obscenely heavy. Anybody got > any > > brilliant thoughts? or should I just break out the drill bits, the taps and > > the cutting oil? > > > > Mark > > 81 Wag = ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 14:51:51 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Door question no luck on the hinges, so i sprayed all the screws w pb blaster, and will see in 2 days, 2 weeks or 2 months. It is not on my usual route. the latches are the old style, as for the seat belts, I have not paid attention as the wagoneers are like garbage can, the front are black for a tan interior, so they must have been swapped, but probably dirty, the rear are sitting in garbage, so I did not have a look, but will pay attention. Cheers Michel To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; mbalea-at-hotmail.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: Door question Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 14:49:45 -0400 From: wallacem7-at-aol.com When I get the hinge off I can likely sneak the plate out of the door and either make a new one or drill the fasteners from the old one...if I can weld some nuts onto the screws after i just break the heads off the heat cycle should help to free up the screws. The heads appeared to be #4 Phillips. I think I tore them up by starting with a #3 Phillips. I got all but one of the Torx fasteners out without too much trouble. I broke one, but I used the #40 Torx with the impact driver, and then with one of my two favorite ratchets (a longer 3/8 drive craftsman with a pivot head...my other favorite ratchet is a shorty 3/8 Craftsman with a pivot head). I bought a Craftsman #40 Torx and it is still functional at this point in time, but it is twisted. I'll get my free replacement when I am out and about. So I need at least one new Torx screw. If you manage to get the Phillips screws out of the abandoned Wagoneers I suspect that I will need at least three of them. My upper hinge appears to still have it's pin intact. So I will attempt to re-use that one. Are the door latches on the Abandoned Wags the older style or the newer style? I haven't gotten into it yet, but there is something that is *not correct* on my passenger side rear door. It closes too far and won't open without excessive force. Maybe just needs to be taken apart and greased, but may also be broken. I haven't gotten into it yet. Also how are the seat belts on the Abandoned Wags? My rear belts are pretty far gone, and I doubt my fronts are much better. If push comes to shove I still have friends from when I was a seat belt engineer who can probably re-web everything. Mark 81 Wag - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Blair To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com; wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sent: Sun, Aug 8, 2010 11:38 am Subject: RE: fsj: Door question I use the impact screwdriver after soaking with pblaster overnight. First I try to make it slightly tighter, then back it off as that tends to break the rust loose. On some doors the "nut" is a flat plate with all three holes threaded into it. If you break the bolts, you just change the plate for one that doesn't have snapped off screws > From: mbalea-at-hotmail.com > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: Door question > Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 17:28:08 +0000 > > You are doing the usual method. May be the 50/50 acetone/ATF is a better > derusting product. When you drill the head out, being headless, you may have > enough of a stub to weld a nut. > > The phillips are not standard, as they have a fan washer. The torx seems to be > substandard and seems not to be too reusable, unless they have received some > loctite treatment, then a little heat is necessary. > > If you need some torx, I may have some left. I am about to see if I can > retrieve more parts of those abandonned wagoneers, mostly trying to pull the > rear doors as they are manual windows, with the phillips and YES, I am taking > my impact driver, which I forgot last time. > > Cheers > Michel > > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: fsj: Door question > > Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 00:02:11 -0400 > > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > > > I pulled the driver side rear door off my Wag this evening...squirted all > the > > bolts with Kroil, used the impact driver and the number 40 Torx to get > > started. I broke one faster and managed to get the rest of them out without > > too much trouble. I disconnected the wiring and set the door on some > > sawhorses. I then took the impact driver (the one you hit with the hammer, > not > > the one that you hook to the air hose) and tried to do the phillips screws > > that hold the hinge to the door. I got Kroil on both sides ...inside and > > outside and I still managed to strip out the heads. Is this just standard > > operating procedure that I get the thrill of drilling those screws out and > > chasing the threads, or does it go with the territory of how rusty my Wag > is? > > Has anybody else run into this trouble? Are the fasteners something that I > can > > get at the Home Despot or the Fastenal store? How hard are they to drill > out? > > I was surprised that the rear doors are not obscenely heavy. Anybody got > any > > brilliant thoughts? or should I just break out the drill bits, the taps and > > the cutting oil? > > > > Mark > > 81 Wag = ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 10:55:23 -0600 From: Troy Phagan Subject: fsj: Door question RE: Door Question I am assuming you all know this, but just wanted to throw these thoughts out into the public, just in case something is overlooked.... Working on 30 year old vehicles can cloud the mind with a haze of frustration! I can't specifically address the FSJ door hinges, but we often have trouble with even TJ parts being seized. (Door hinges, window hinges, some suspension fasteners and the like....) It seems they put Loc-tite on all the things I need to remove. So, you are not alone, for sure. I can point out a useful tip that sometimes helps: Try to both TIGHTEN and LOOSEN a fastener. It seems counter-intuitive, but the first step is simply to get the fastener to move at all, in any direction. Tightening helps lessen the amount of damage to the fastener head when trying to get it to budge in only one orientation. Occasionally, you can use a Dremel or other small grinder to re-create a new, off-set or modified slot pattern in a phillips style screw. Depending on the condition of your hinges / door; and your immediate plans for their usage, the only other thing I could suggest is some torch heat... You will scorch your paint, etc. But I don't know of any other way except for "EZ-OUTs" (Which never seem EZ to me...) and the aforementioned Drill / tap. Good Luck! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:08:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: FSJ Stickers and youtube very cool sound... http://www.youtube.com/user/buckinjeep258 ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 8 Aug 2010, buckinjeep258 wrote: # Hey Thanks John, You Might Have To Check Out My Youtube channel I Started A FSJ Group On Youtube too, http://www.youtube.com/user/buckinjeep258 ________________________________ From: john To: "buckinjeep258-at-bellsouth.net" Sent: Sat, August 7, 2010 7:16:56 PM Subject: Re: FSJ Stickers they're in the mailbox. :) thanx john ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3613 **************************