From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Dec 3 23:31:25 2010 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, December 4 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3653 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: RE: looking for a GW or Chero fsj: Re: winches Re: fsj: Re: winches fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. Re: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. RE: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. RE: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. Re: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. fsj: winches and quality parts in general FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 14:12:43 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: RE: looking for a GW or Chero I have an Eagle that may need repowering. (actually, it just needs a 727 to make it drivable again) > Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 13:51:11 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: pk.mlk-at-verizon.net > CC: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com; proj96xj-at-insightbb.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: RE: looking for a GW or Chero > > yeah, but I have a spare Diesel engine... :) > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Thu, 2 Dec 2010, Paul & Megan Kershner wrote: > > # LOL. It doesn't have a diesel in it, so he pro'lly won't want it. Gotta > # get his SuperDawg project finished... > # > # -pk > # > # -----Original Message----- > # From: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com [mailto:fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com] > # Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 6:24 PM > # To: Paul Kershner; 'Neal Hoover'; FSJ > # Subject: Re: fsj: RE: looking for a GW or Chero > # > # Yeah, provided mr. Popcorn doesn't wheel and deal with it first. ;). Let's > # see, how about a Homelite 330, a Diesel generator (to light up your life > # after the wind storms/snow/rain that leave you feeling powerless), maybe a > # nice semi-pro DSLR, and maybe a pc loaded with your favorite flavor of > # linux, or shudder, windows. ;) > # ------Original Message------ > # From: Paul Kershner > # Sender: owner-fsj-at-digest.net > # To: 'Neal Hoover' > # To: FSJ > # ReplyTo: Paul Kershner > # Subject: fsj: RE: looking for a GW or Chero > # Sent: Dec 2, 2010 18:04 > # > # Is Monroe, Washington within driving distance? > # > # 1991 GW "Final Edition" 180K or so miles. Comes with an extra 360 engine > # with only 30K miles on it. Performer maniford, cam, dual link cam chain, > # Edelbrock 650 4bbl... New headliner,good rubber, good brakes, runs OK, > # mostly straight body (some bruises) needs some TLC but will likely go > # anywhere... > # Want $2500. > # > # If interested, I'm sure a third-party (namely Mr. Popcorn-Meister) could > # check it out... > # > # -Paul > # > # -----Original Message----- > # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Neal > # Hoover > # Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 5:14 PM > # To: fsj-at-digest.net; FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > # Subject: fsj: looking for a GW or Chero > # > # a buddy of mine is, well, looking for a buddy of his. :-/ > # as he posted on another list... > # > # > does anyone know of any full-size Grand Waggys or Cherokees for sale? a > # > friend is looking for one that can be driven daily with little to no work > # > needed. > # > # most likely, it will need to be fairly local to Louisville, KY. say, 150 > # mile radius or so? > # > # Neal A. Hoover > # Project '76 J-10 > # Project '96 XJ > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > # > # > # Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:08:49 -0700 From: Troy Phagan Subject: fsj: Re: winches RE: Winches: I am a 'Red Letter Dealer' for Warn winches. That means I am an authorized dealer, and only sell at authorized prices. I don't intend this as an advertisement, but have some insight into what you are seeing. For the record, I am also frustrated by the situation. Plus, it's not limited to winches, many, many automotive aftermarket items are experiencing similar situations. For example Lift kits: Very few lift kit/ suspension parts are built using USA made steel products. Most is imported. I can name the names if anyone is interested. It's the Global economics at work. Except for the Tabor line, all WARN winches are designed, built and assembled in the USA. Warn stands behind their products; you can order repair parts, or at least replacement sub-assembly items, for 30 year old Warn winches. That is NOT even true of many automobiles, not to mention aftermarket items like winches. Each warn motor is designed for the task in mind. Almost all of the import / china winches are using very big, primitive motors and are accomplishing the various weight pull ratings through gear reductions. A Warn winch will not fry your alternator / battery. The cheap imports have massive amperage draws and heat up quickly due to their primitive, inefficient motors and get progressively worse. The also tend to be constructed of brittle, caste materials that break easily. It is very common for users of import winches to use them once, twice, three times and then have them fail. Then, it is near impossible to get repair parts. They get thrown away... Warn is very aware of the pricing situation. They are trying to find ways to reduce costs without going overseas or making an inferior product. One of the things they mentioned to me that will happen soon is an improvement to a newer, sealed solenoid device that will be universal to all their winches. The new electronic solenoid will be waterproof, and universal, and be a cost reduction. It was not said, but it maybe an imported device, I don't know. They don't share too many intimate details, but I know they know what's going on in the world. I also sell other brands, but Warn is my preferred brand. Unfortunately, I don't sell many winches, and I don't make much when I do. I sell a couple Smittybilt (chinese/import) winches a month.. I sell a couple Warn winches in a YEAR. FYI: Warn has a rebate program on now until the end of the year: http://www.warn.com/truck/cash_rebate.shtml Again, I don't mean this as an advertisement, but it is an issue relevant to the list. If anyone would like more information they can contact me off-list if desired. Or, I suggest contacting the individual winch companies personally. I specifically mean to phone any company in question. Most do not respond to email in any kind of meaningful fashion.... Regards, - ---Troy Troy Phagan C.R.P. 4x4 & Auto Accessories 2102 9th ST Greeley, CO 80631 970-351-8603 fax: 970-353-3066 tsp-at-crptruck.com www.crptruck.com www.smilingcharleys.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 15:31:28 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: winches good information, and don't worry about letting fellow listers know your in the business, if your prices and services are right and you're not bashing anyone it'd be our pleasure to do business with you. daily or weekly sale bulletins would probably get old though. ;) john On 12/3/2010 3:08 PM, Troy Phagan wrote: > RE: Winches: > > I am a 'Red Letter Dealer' for Warn winches. That means I am an authorized > dealer, and only sell at authorized prices. > > I don't intend this as an advertisement, but have some insight into what you > are seeing. For the record, I am also frustrated by the situation. Plus, > it's not limited to winches, many, many automotive aftermarket items are > experiencing similar situations. For example Lift kits: Very few lift kit/ > suspension parts are built using USA made steel products. Most is imported. > I can name the names if anyone is interested. It's the Global economics at work. > > Except for the Tabor line, all WARN winches are designed, built and assembled > in the USA. Warn stands behind their products; you can order repair parts, or > at least replacement sub-assembly items, for 30 year old Warn winches. That > is NOT even true of many automobiles, not to mention aftermarket items like > winches. Each warn motor is designed for the task in mind. Almost all of the > import / china winches are using very big, primitive motors and are > accomplishing the various weight pull ratings through gear reductions. A > Warn winch will not fry your alternator / battery. The cheap imports have > massive amperage draws and heat up quickly due to their primitive, inefficient > motors and get progressively worse. The also tend to be constructed of > brittle, caste materials that break easily. It is very common for users of > import winches to use them once, twice, three times and then have them fail. > Then, it is near impossible to get repair parts. They get thrown away... > > Warn is very aware of the pricing situation. They are trying to find ways to > reduce costs without going overseas or making an inferior product. One of the > things they mentioned to me that will happen soon is an improvement to a > newer, sealed solenoid device that will be universal to all their winches. > The new electronic solenoid will be waterproof, and universal, and be a cost > reduction. It was not said, but it maybe an imported device, I don't know. > They don't share too many intimate details, but I know they know what's going > on in the world. > > I also sell other brands, but Warn is my preferred brand. Unfortunately, I > don't sell many winches, and I don't make much when I do. I sell a couple > Smittybilt (chinese/import) winches a month.. I sell a couple Warn winches in > a YEAR. > > FYI: Warn has a rebate program on now until the end of the year: > http://www.warn.com/truck/cash_rebate.shtml > > Again, I don't mean this as an advertisement, but it is an issue relevant to > the list. If anyone would like more information they can contact me off-list > if desired. Or, I suggest contacting the individual winch companies > personally. I specifically mean to phone any company in question. Most do > not respond to email in any kind of meaningful fashion.... > > Regards, > ---Troy > > Troy Phagan > C.R.P. 4x4 & Auto Accessories > 2102 9th ST > Greeley, CO 80631 > 970-351-8603 > fax: 970-353-3066 > > tsp-at-crptruck.com > > www.crptruck.com > www.smilingcharleys.com > > - -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 16:17:49 -0800 (PST) From: Thomas Anhalt Subject: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. Hi All, Tom Anhalt here in SB. I haven't posted in awhile, but I've been still reading the digests :-) For those of you who don't know (or may not remember), my FSJ is an '81 Cherokee Laredo with the 4.2L inline six. Not long after the Mopar MPI kit came out, I installed one and it's run great...until a few months it ended up throwing a rod :-( Well, the Cherokee has been sitting since then as I try to decide what to do with it...in the mean time I've been occasionally keeping an eye out for appropriate engines to throw in there. Due to smog issues I'd like to keep the engine either a 4.2 or even a new 4.0L. So...this week I noticed on the local Craig's list a listing for a rolled '99 Grand Cherokee where the owner is basically giving away any useful pieces. Sweet. I'll take the 4.0L engine, please :-) Now then, my question is: Will the '99 4.0L engine basically swap in where my '81 4.2L is? Remember, with the MPI kit I already have the 4.0L MPI intake manifold and computer rigged up. Also, my engine was already a serpentine belt model so I've got the proper harmonic balancer for the kit. My concerns are that the engine will bolt up to my bell housing and torque converter (it's a TF727) and that the engine mounts will bolt up as well. From everything I can tell, the 4.2 and 4.0L blocks are externally basically identical. Is this true? Anything else I need to be concerned with? One more thing...I've also been thinking that this 4.0L might make a good basis for a stroker motor for me...I guess I should pull the old 4.2 and see if the crank is salvageable. Thanks, Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:59:32 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. should bolt right up. and yes, you have the makings for the stroker. I just swapped a 4.0 in a WJ last year, got the engine out of the rubicon, bell housing was the same as any other 4.2 or 4.0 I've ever seen, have pictures somewhere to confirm. I would recommend getting the computers and using the MPI setup on the newer 4.0 for the best results. john On 12/3/2010 4:17 PM, Thomas Anhalt wrote: > Hi All, > Tom Anhalt here in SB. I haven't posted in awhile, but I've been still reading > the digests :-) > > For those of you who don't know (or may not remember), my FSJ is an '81 Cherokee > Laredo with the 4.2L inline six. Not long after the Mopar MPI kit came out, I > installed one and it's run great...until a few months it ended up throwing a rod > :-( > > Well, the Cherokee has been sitting since then as I try to decide what to do > with it...in the mean time I've been occasionally keeping an eye out for > appropriate engines to throw in there. Due to smog issues I'd like to keep the > engine either a 4.2 or even a new 4.0L. > > So...this week I noticed on the local Craig's list a listing for a rolled '99 > Grand Cherokee where the owner is basically giving away any useful pieces. > Sweet. I'll take the 4.0L engine, please :-) > > Now then, my question is: Will the '99 4.0L engine basically swap in where my > '81 4.2L is? Remember, with the MPI kit I already have the 4.0L MPI intake > manifold and computer rigged up. Also, my engine was already a serpentine belt > model so I've got the proper harmonic balancer for the kit. My concerns are > that the engine will bolt up to my bell housing and torque converter (it's a > TF727) and that the engine mounts will bolt up as well. From everything I can > tell, the 4.2 and 4.0L blocks are externally basically identical. Is this true? > > > Anything else I need to be concerned with? > > One more thing...I've also been thinking that this 4.0L might make a good basis > for a stroker motor for me...I guess I should pull the old 4.2 and see if the > crank is salvageable. > > Thanks, > Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 17:23:24 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. Hey Tom! If you have the 99 or later intake, it fits different than the '91 to early '99 intake (brackets, etc are different) and I recently found out the newest intake MAY even clear the stock brake booster (mine is still in pieces but I have an '83 that I can test fit one on in springtime or at least whenever the snow leaves Mt Index long enough for me to get in/out) My '84 J10 is still awaiting the wiring harness swap (health issues almost stopped me altogether till recently and all my helpers had to go home to Canada) from a '91 XJ Im parting. A couple of later than '99 4.0Ls don't have the holes for the mounts drilled, but the bosses are there, and they changed the waterpump. The newer head '00 to '04? With coil on plug has a cracking issue (flaw) that was fixed with the Rubicon. The newest intake flows the best. > Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 16:17:49 -0800 > From: theanhalts-at-yahoo.com > Subject: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. > To: fsj-at-digest.net > > Hi All, > Tom Anhalt here in SB. I haven't posted in awhile, but I've been still reading > the digests :-) > > For those of you who don't know (or may not remember), my FSJ is an '81 Cherokee > Laredo with the 4.2L inline six. Not long after the Mopar MPI kit came out, I > installed one and it's run great...until a few months it ended up throwing a rod > :-( > > Well, the Cherokee has been sitting since then as I try to decide what to do > with it...in the mean time I've been occasionally keeping an eye out for > appropriate engines to throw in there. Due to smog issues I'd like to keep the > engine either a 4.2 or even a new 4.0L. > > So...this week I noticed on the local Craig's list a listing for a rolled '99 > Grand Cherokee where the owner is basically giving away any useful pieces. > Sweet. I'll take the 4.0L engine, please :-) > > Now then, my question is: Will the '99 4.0L engine basically swap in where my > '81 4.2L is? Remember, with the MPI kit I already have the 4.0L MPI intake > manifold and computer rigged up. Also, my engine was already a serpentine belt > model so I've got the proper harmonic balancer for the kit. My concerns are > that the engine will bolt up to my bell housing and torque converter (it's a > TF727) and that the engine mounts will bolt up as well. From everything I can > tell, the 4.2 and 4.0L blocks are externally basically identical. Is this true? > > > Anything else I need to be concerned with? > > One more thing...I've also been thinking that this 4.0L might make a good basis > for a stroker motor for me...I guess I should pull the old 4.2 and see if the > crank is salvageable. > > Thanks, > Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 19:07:48 -0800 From: "Paul & Megan Kershner" Subject: RE: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. And if all else fails, John has an extra Diesel engine... pk - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 5:00 PM To: Thomas Anhalt Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. should bolt right up. and yes, you have the makings for the stroker. I just swapped a 4.0 in a WJ last year, got the engine out of the rubicon, bell housing was the same as any other 4.2 or 4.0 I've ever seen, have pictures somewhere to confirm. I would recommend getting the computers and using the MPI setup on the newer 4.0 for the best results. john On 12/3/2010 4:17 PM, Thomas Anhalt wrote: > Hi All, > Tom Anhalt here in SB. I haven't posted in awhile, but I've been still reading > the digests :-) > > For those of you who don't know (or may not remember), my FSJ is an '81 Cherokee > Laredo with the 4.2L inline six. Not long after the Mopar MPI kit came out, I > installed one and it's run great...until a few months it ended up throwing a rod > :-( > > Well, the Cherokee has been sitting since then as I try to decide what to do > with it...in the mean time I've been occasionally keeping an eye out for > appropriate engines to throw in there. Due to smog issues I'd like to keep the > engine either a 4.2 or even a new 4.0L. > > So...this week I noticed on the local Craig's list a listing for a rolled '99 > Grand Cherokee where the owner is basically giving away any useful pieces. > Sweet. I'll take the 4.0L engine, please :-) > > Now then, my question is: Will the '99 4.0L engine basically swap in where my > '81 4.2L is? Remember, with the MPI kit I already have the 4.0L MPI intake > manifold and computer rigged up. Also, my engine was already a serpentine belt > model so I've got the proper harmonic balancer for the kit. My concerns are > that the engine will bolt up to my bell housing and torque converter (it's a > TF727) and that the engine mounts will bolt up as well. From everything I can > tell, the 4.2 and 4.0L blocks are externally basically identical. Is this true? > > > Anything else I need to be concerned with? > > One more thing...I've also been thinking that this 4.0L might make a good basis > for a stroker motor for me...I guess I should pull the old 4.2 and see if the > crank is salvageable. > > Thanks, > Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 03:24:11 +0000 From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net Subject: Re: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. Which I should sell along with the other parts I have left over. Sure wish I could get curtis to answer emails or the phone. I'm ready to put my own truck together at this point. :). Anyone interested in an SD33T complete? The seals in the IP need to be replaced but I can provide an extra IP with it. Need the money to fix my TDI. John - ------Original Message------ From: Paul Kershner Sender: owner-fsj-at-digest.net To: 'john' To: 'Thomas Anhalt' Cc: FSJ ReplyTo: Paul Kershner Subject: RE: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. Sent: Dec 3, 2010 19:07 And if all else fails, John has an extra Diesel engine... pk - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 5:00 PM To: Thomas Anhalt Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: Long time, no post...and an engine swap question. should bolt right up. and yes, you have the makings for the stroker. I just swapped a 4.0 in a WJ last year, got the engine out of the rubicon, bell housing was the same as any other 4.2 or 4.0 I've ever seen, have pictures somewhere to confirm. I would recommend getting the computers and using the MPI setup on the newer 4.0 for the best results. john On 12/3/2010 4:17 PM, Thomas Anhalt wrote: > Hi All, > Tom Anhalt here in SB. I haven't posted in awhile, but I've been still reading > the digests :-) > > For those of you who don't know (or may not remember), my FSJ is an '81 Cherokee > Laredo with the 4.2L inline six. Not long after the Mopar MPI kit came out, I > installed one and it's run great...until a few months it ended up throwing a rod > :-( > > Well, the Cherokee has been sitting since then as I try to decide what to do > with it...in the mean time I've been occasionally keeping an eye out for > appropriate engines to throw in there. Due to smog issues I'd like to keep the > engine either a 4.2 or even a new 4.0L. > > So...this week I noticed on the local Craig's list a listing for a rolled '99 > Grand Cherokee where the owner is basically giving away any useful pieces. > Sweet. I'll take the 4.0L engine, please :-) > > Now then, my question is: Will the '99 4.0L engine basically swap in where my > '81 4.2L is? Remember, with the MPI kit I already have the 4.0L MPI intake > manifold and computer rigged up. Also, my engine was already a serpentine belt > model so I've got the proper harmonic balancer for the kit. My concerns are > that the engine will bolt up to my bell housing and torque converter (it's a > TF727) and that the engine mounts will bolt up as well. From everything I can > tell, the 4.2 and 4.0L blocks are externally basically identical. Is this true? > > > Anything else I need to be concerned with? > > One more thing...I've also been thinking that this 4.0L might make a good basis > for a stroker motor for me...I guess I should pull the old 4.2 and see if the > crank is salvageable. > > Thanks, > Tom Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2010 02:18:12 -0500 From: Mark Wallace Subject: fsj: winches and quality parts in general The price of a warn winch may reflect a drop in demand. It seems to me that fifteen years ago there was Warn, Ramsey, Mile Marker and Superwinch and that was it. Warn dominated the market and probably kept the line for any given product running consistently. Harbor Freight comes along and takes a big bite out of the established brands and now they might run the line two or three days every month and the rest of the time that equipment is taking up space in the plant and collecting dust. The line operators are paid the same hourly rate regardless of how fast the line is running. The part is no longer a commodity and is now a boutique item and is priced accordingly. I would comb ebay and see if any older winches come up. With this here recession a lot of people are selling their toys some of which don't have much use on them. I'll also check with a few friends. Is anybody else finding that quality rebuilt starters and alternators are getting harder to find? That the mom and pop parts store with the parts counter guy who knows how to look in a book and find obscure parts is disappearing? Of course living with a 30 year old car as daily transportation is not all that easy to begin with. Mark 81 Wag ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3653 **************************