From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Dec 17 11:09:14 2010 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, December 17 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3664 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage fsj: lies about Diesels? in California? no... couldn't be... RE: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage fsj: Fuel Economy and Aerodynamics RE: fsj: Fuel Economy and Aerodynamics fsj: FW: Delivery Status Notification(Failure) fsj: in other news... fsj: Re: in other news... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:43:37 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage I noticed how little water mist was coming off the wheels of a Priuus on I-405 a few weeks ago... they did a good job of aerodynamics on that car... ugly as sin, but slippery as snot. :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 16 Dec 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # # # Comparing different body styles, the FSJs are really shapped like a brick, while the XJs had a better flowing body design. # # Smoothing the air flow around the grille and adding underbody panel could help reduce the drag such as panels screwed in front the engine. The wheel wells are a marvel of turbulent flow, check the other vehicles while driving in the rain, while not being the driver of course. # # Some of the hypermiler have incredible body mods. # # http://www.aerocivic.com/ # # cheers # # Michel # # # > > Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 00:05:15 -0800 # > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > > To: # > > Subject: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage # > > # > > just found my notes from superdawg, 4.2L with T-5, 235s and 3.31 gears: # > > average fuel economy over 8,821.8 miles was 13.65 mpg # > > # > > best ever mileage was 18.65 mpg # > > # > > my records for my '81 were all on paper, but the best mileage ever # > > was 13.74 something, average was in the 11-12 mpg range. # > > # > > # > > my best XJ average was the '87 4.0 with 3" of lift and 31s, got around 17 in # > town, # > > 21 on the highway... # > > # > > # > > ----- # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:56:19 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: lies about Diesels? in California? no... couldn't be... the contents of this email also at: http://johnmeister.com/DIESELS/tech/Diesel-pollution-overstated-by-CA.txt - ---------------------------------------------------- California Air Resources Board caught in deception related to Diesel pollutants. Articles below. (December 2010) Also note, that the medical community has for the most part not questioned this data, except for a few who became outcasts. It seems that "popular" science is quite political. I've question many of the current ideas about global warming (bad data), the ozone (R12 demise - patent expired), and many other chemicals and materials as mostly over reactionary and in many cases simply junk science based on flawed and invalidated data. see: http://rps3.com/Pages/Burt_Rutan_on_Climate_Change.htm see: http://www.scientificintegrityinstitute.org/Enstrom022610.pdf QUESTION RESEARCH, VALIDATE DATA, don't ignore basic logic or Occam's razor. - ------------------------------------- NEWS ON THIS FROM THE LEFT! http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/10/07/BAOF1FDMRV.DTL#ix zz11iqEfuN9 image: http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2010/10/07/ba-carb1008_gr_SFCG1286500409_pa rt6.jpg California grossly miscalculated pollution levels in a scientific analysis used to toughen the state's clean-air standards, and scientists have spent the past several months revising data and planning a significant weakening of the landmark regulation, The Chronicle has found. The pollution estimate in question was too high - by 340 percent, according to the California Air Resources Board, the state agency charged with researching and adopting air quality standards. The estimate was a key part in the creation of a regulation adopted by the Air Resources Board in 2007, a rule that forces businesses to cut diesel emissions by replacing or making costly upgrades to heavy-duty, diesel-fueled off-road vehicles used in construction and other industries. The staff of the powerful and widely respected Air Resources Board said the overestimate is largely due to the board calculating emissions before the economy slumped, which halted the use of many of the 150,000 diesel-exhaust-spewing vehicles in California. Independent researchers, however, found huge overestimates in the air board's work on diesel emissions and attributed the flawed work to a faulty method of calculation - not the economic downturn. The overestimate, which comes after another bad calculation by the air board on diesel-related deaths that made headlines in 2009, prompted the board to suspend the regulation this year while officials decided whether to weaken the rule. - ------------------------------------- http://www.capitolweekly.net/article.php?xid=z49s2hbpp9llve - ------------------------------------- http://energy.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1223&wit_id=3530 - ------------------------------------- http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ordiesel/documents/emissions_inventory_presentat ion_full_10_09_03.pdf - ------------------------------------- http://newsletters.agc.org/environment/2010/09/08/california-admits-to-vastly - -overstating-construction-emissions-following-agcs-efforts/ - ------------------------------------- http://killcarb.org/2010091103-dieselrules.html - ------------------------------------- http://dieseldig.com/2010/10/11/california-caught-in-lie-about-diesel-emissio ns/ You know when the enviro nazis that run the California Air Resources Board (CARB) have overstepped when even a liberal far left rag like the San Francisco Chronicle is exposing their lies. This comes as we have just learned that CARB falsified and overstated the effects and pollution of diesel emissions by 340 percent in order to push their clamp down b^\greenb^] agenda. These are lies that have cost the private sector and the state of California potentially billions of dollars to upfit fleets of trucks, busses, tractors and other equipment to meet the landmark new emissions regulations that were the result of the trumped up studies. Additionally, the resulting legislation has made bringing diesel automobiles and pick-ups to market in California that much more difficult. - ------------------------------------- http://forums.focaljet.com/team-pit-stop/637902-california-lower-pollution-st andards.html - ------------------------------------- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 16:50:14 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage cool website, maybe I won't need to do the body work on my jetta, just apply some of these tricks: http://www.aerocivic.com/ ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 16 Dec 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # # # Comparing different body styles, the FSJs are really shapped like a brick, while the XJs had a better flowing body design. # # Smoothing the air flow around the grille and adding underbody panel could help reduce the drag such as panels screwed in front the engine. The wheel wells are a marvel of turbulent flow, check the other vehicles while driving in the rain, while not being the driver of course. # # Some of the hypermiler have incredible body mods. # # http://www.aerocivic.com/ # # cheers # # Michel # # # > > Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 00:05:15 -0800 # > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > > To: # > > Subject: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage # > > # > > just found my notes from superdawg, 4.2L with T-5, 235s and 3.31 gears: # > > average fuel economy over 8,821.8 miles was 13.65 mpg # > > # > > best ever mileage was 18.65 mpg # > > # > > my records for my '81 were all on paper, but the best mileage ever # > > was 13.74 something, average was in the 11-12 mpg range. # > > # > > # > > my best XJ average was the '87 4.0 with 3" of lift and 31s, got around 17 in # > town, # > > 21 on the highway... # > > # > > # > > ----- # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 22:00:17 -0500 From: Mark Wallace Subject: fsj: Fuel Economy and Aerodynamics It seems to me that if you are looking for fuel economy a full size jeep of any kind is a poor starting point. Look at a modern vehicle and see how the glass is all flush with the body panels, the tail lights aren't sharp edges, the door handles are flush with the bodywork, the bumpers don't stick out past the edge of the sheet metal and so on. My experience with my Wagoneer over 100,000+ miles, three different carburetors, two different exhaust systems, and an engine rebuild is that thirteen miles per gallon is "good mileage". Sometimes you get a little better, most of the time you do a little worse, some of the time you do a lot worse. I started out with a stock 81 Wag on 225/75-15 tires and a two barrel 360. Rebuilt the 360 fifteen or sixteen years ago with an Edelbrock Performer intake which I have run both a Holley Vacuum secondary 600 CFM carb and a Carter 650 CFM AFB. I have had the stock exhaust, dual cherry bombs, and a single 2 1/2 inch Flowmaster as well as running straight pipes from time to time. None of these items seem to change the fuel economy one way or the other. I think I get 13 MPH on the Diesel box truck I drive at work with 6000 lbs in it. (Dodge Ram 3500 cab/chassis) and it's aerodynamically ugly just due to the height of the box. Mark Wallace 81 wag ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 19:19:41 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Fuel Economy and Aerodynamics The worst economy my '73 J4000 was 10 mpg with the 304/th400/qt 17% O/D with stock tires, and 3.73 gears due to vacuum leaks and poorly set carb and dragging a loaded E350 20' cube van. When I went to 33" tires and modded the carb (choke off, '69 Ford 390 rebuild kit, especially the power valve) I got 13 mpg fully loaded, and 17 average in mixed driving. Best mileage was 19 mpg going to Canada and back pulling an MJ one way. Since the gas gauge wasn't correct, I had to keep good records. Speedo/odo confirmed with 5 mile highway test zones. > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Fuel Economy and Aerodynamics > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 22:00:17 -0500 > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > It seems to me that if you are looking for fuel economy a full size jeep of > any kind is a poor starting point. Look at a modern vehicle and see how the > glass is all flush with the body panels, the tail lights aren't sharp edges, > the door handles are flush with the bodywork, the bumpers don't stick out past > the edge of the sheet metal and so on. > > My experience with my Wagoneer over 100,000+ miles, three different > carburetors, two different exhaust systems, and an engine rebuild is that > thirteen miles per gallon is "good mileage". Sometimes you get a little > better, most of the time you do a little worse, some of the time you do a lot > worse. > > I started out with a stock 81 Wag on 225/75-15 tires and a two barrel 360. > Rebuilt the 360 fifteen or sixteen years ago with an Edelbrock Performer > intake which I have run both a Holley Vacuum secondary 600 CFM carb and a > Carter 650 CFM AFB. I have had the stock exhaust, dual cherry bombs, and a > single 2 1/2 inch Flowmaster as well as running straight pipes from time to > time. None of these items seem to change the fuel economy one way or the > other. > > I think I get 13 MPH on the Diesel box truck I drive at work with 6000 lbs in > it. (Dodge Ram 3500 cab/chassis) and it's aerodynamically ugly just due to the > height of the box. > > Mark Wallace > 81 wag ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:26:08 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: FW: Delivery Status Notification(Failure) Hey Richard! I woke up to almosT 100 more of these messages this AM. This link is supposed to cover how to fix it. Thanks! http://www.blackberry.com/btsc/microsites/search.do?cmd=displayKC&docType=kc& externalId=KB10066&sliceId=1&docTypeID=DT_SUPPORTISSUE_1_1&dialogID=100530602 5&stateId=0%200%201005308024 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 04:04:27 +0000 > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > From: postmaster-at-att.blackberry.net > Subject: Delivery Status Notification(Failure) > > Your message: > To: richardmeans-at-att.blackberry.net > Subject: RE: fsj: popcorn special > Sent Date: 27:43 +0000 > has not been delivered to the recipient's BlackBerry Handheld. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:23:23 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: in other news... it's alive! after much trial and tribulation my TDI ('03 Jetta) is running! just talked to the shop... picking it up today I hope... it's been down for weeks with trouble, turns out it wasn't the bad biodiesel, but likely the PO and lack of maintenance. (expected when you buy a wrecked project) speaking of broken projects, still need to get down to federal way to retrieve my '83 Cherokee Chief... anyone got a car trailer or dolly I can borrow for a few hours? both my son and I are considering all kinds of engines to repower our FSJs... 4.0 out of an XJ is on the list... but after a number of swaps I'm thinking that it may not be worth the trouble... fixing an existing engine vs. swapping in a different one to get 3mpg (assuming a gas engine of course) may not be worth the expense. I do like jim's idea of a 304, have heard of excellent mileage with one of those. the 360 is a boat anchor. my son put a lock-rite in his '85 GW, then found the trans had metal in it, but got an email from another FSJ owner, trans is still working after the same diagnosis... my '91 300d is making some noises from the front, wondering if it's time to change the idler pulley and serpentine... don't recall ever doing it on the 124... can't be that hard... I wonder if it's ever been done on this car, I've had it since it had 175,000 miles... it now has 267,000 miles... hmmm... maintance on a Mercedes Diesel is so confusing... they require so little so rarely one forgets what one has done, or if anything was ever done... amazing cars the older Diesel Benz units... also, comcast users, beware of a new phishing email today - very well crafted, caught me off guard... verify the links in ANY email before clicking... comcast has a horrible menu system on their sites, took me several minutes to change my password, and then it didn't work on firefox, had to use an unprotected win7 system with IE to do it... not sure what was more frighening, knowing a phishing site had one of my email passwords for a few minutes or using Windows 7 with IE... was a tossup... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 11:08:14 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: in other news... oh yeah, didn't explain the metal in the trans very well, he was going to have a shift kit installed... didn't explain that part did I? :) hey, want to swap for a broken 360? ;) I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the WT Cherokee Chief... initially get it running and start a full stock restoration on it before deciding I guess... new carpet will be first on the list... after it runs... will drive it and figure out what to do. SuperDawg has the engine in the chassis so continuing on that project, can only hope it'll make progress. Now that my TDI is running again will run down to lend a hand and expedite the process... I did find a cool picture of the dawg from above... http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/SuperDawg/Superdawg-new-windshield.jpg love the looks of this truck... the WT chief will be cool too, but not not as practical for WVO hauling or use.... Even if I put a 6.2 in the Chief and get 24 mpg on the freeway it won't be as nice as the '03 Jetta at 50+ on the road... I think curtis had the best idea, get the chief running and see how it works and continue with the current plan for superdawg... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Wes Molsberry wrote: # Brutus the narrow cherokee has an old 304 which the DPO installed. No # comment on gas mileage as the carb has never been re-jetted, and the # balance is fouled up due to 360 flywheel and harmonic balancer pully. # I also have a lock-rite in there. Why would that have anything to do # with metal in the trans? (though it likely has loads of shavings in # the diff). The lock-rite work super well in dirt and ice. It's also # HIGHLY effective in scrubbing all that unwanted tread off your rear # tires. BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, # sans-serif;font-size:12px; } # Wes # On Fri 17/12/10 10:23 AM , john john-at-wagoneers.com sent: # it's alive! after much trial and tribulation my TDI ('03 Jetta) is # running! just # talked to the shop... picking it up today I hope... it's been down # for weeks with # trouble, turns out it wasn't the bad biodiesel, but likely the PO # and lack of maintenance. # (expected when you buy a wrecked project) # speaking of broken projects, still need to get down to federal way # to retrieve my # '83 Cherokee Chief... anyone got a car trailer or dolly I can borrow # for a few hours? # both my son and I are considering all kinds of engines to repower # our FSJs... 4.0 out # of an XJ is on the list... but after a number of swaps I'm thinking # that it may not be # worth the trouble... fixing an existing engine vs. swapping in a # different one # to get 3mpg (assuming a gas engine of course) may not be worth the # expense. I do like # jim's idea of a 304, have heard of excellent mileage with one of # those. the 360 # is a boat anchor. # my son put a lock-rite in his '85 GW, then found the trans had metal # in it, but # got an email from another FSJ owner, trans is still working after # the same diagnosis... # my '91 300d is making some noises from the front, wondering if it's # time to change # the idler pulley and serpentine... don't recall ever doing it on the # 124... can't # be that hard... I wonder if it's ever been done on this car, I've # had it since it # had 175,000 miles... it now has 267,000 miles... hmmm... maintance # on a Mercedes # Diesel is so confusing... they require so little so rarely one # forgets what one has # done, or if anything was ever done... amazing cars the older Diesel # Benz units... # also, comcast users, beware of a new phishing email today - very # well crafted, caught # me off guard... verify the links in ANY email before clicking... # comcast has a horrible # menu system on their sites, took me several minutes to change my # password, and # then it didn't work on firefox, had to use an unprotected win7 # system with IE to # do it... not sure what was more frighening, knowing a phishing site # had one of # my email passwords for a few minutes or using Windows 7 with IE... # was a tossup... # john # ----- # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 [1] si vis pacem, para # bellum # http://johnmeister.com [2] http://wagoneers.com # http://fotomeister.us # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # Links: # ------ # [1] http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # [2] http://johnmeister.com # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3664 **************************