From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Dec 26 12:19:14 2010 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, December 26 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3668 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: example of a poor design... fsj: Re: [db] example of a poor design... fsj: Fwd: Mercedes OM617 diesel to Jeep Wrangler AX15 AX-15 NV3550 Adapter Kit fsj: Re: [SPAM] [MessageLimit][lowlimit] Re: [db] example of a poor design... Re: [db] Re: fsj: Fwd: Mercedes OM617 diesel to Jeep Wrangler AX15 AX-15 NV3550 Adapter Kit fsj: Washington State DOL math fsj: not a WJ... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 00:28:31 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: example of a poor design... I've worked on a lot of cars over the last 40 or so years... I've heard about the problems of the Jettas with the oil pan being kind of low, like about 5" off the ground... protected by a plastic sheet... but what's really bad is they used a cast aluminum oil pan... if they had used a stamped steel pan it would dent, not crack and I wouldn't have dumped six quarts of amsoil synthetic... If I hadn't been running amsoil synthetic I would have to be towed home or would have damaged the engine... I wouldn't dare run low on oil if I was using dino oil... I had one extra quart, poured it in and made it the last three miles home as quick as I could waiting for that terrible idiot light and alarm to come on again ... and it didn't... I pulled the oil pan... at first it looked as though I was going to have to drop the transmission... but luckily I had a 5mm bondus wrench that wobbled just enough to get in there... who designed this thing? a contortionist??? this pan has been off before and someone really gooped it up... and busted a bolt, then glued it back on the pan... :) I'm not sure if I'm even going to mess with it... the pan is rigid enough that one bolt won't cause a leak. http://johnmeister.com/DIESELS/tdi/TDI-oil-pan/ALL.html so, for Christmas Eve I'll be going to the VW dealer in search of a new pan... if they don't have it I'll be heading to pep boys to buy brake cleaner and JB weld. I really need to get that Panzer skid plate installed... mark and I were just talking about how to build the brackets last night. oh, what got me is one of those stupid curbs they put in the middle of the turn lanes to keep you from turning where they don't want you to... problem is it hadn't been there very long and I was trying to turn left into a business where I had before, in the rain and didn't see it until the last minute, went far enough left that I thought I had cleared the pan and hit the control arms... well, I did hit the control arm... but the pan was lower than the control arm and got nailed... not sure what the plastic pan did for me... except hold the oil that was leaking out so I didn't see it right away... and maybe kept the aluminum pan for being completely ripped open. Either this car is cursed or I just picked it up when it needed everything fixed... well, curbs aren't part of the normal maintenance cycle... that was my error... should have it running one way or another tomorrow... guess I'll be wrenching for Christmas eve. :) This is so not the car for me... I need a Jeep or a Mercedes, no more rubber bands for timing or low hanging unprotected parts... You could drive either a Benz or a Jeep over a VW and not suffer any oil pan damage... curbs? bring 'em on... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 21:36:14 +0000 From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net Subject: fsj: Re: [db] example of a poor design... Wow. Guess I feel lucky. Napa had the oil pan for around $140, the oil almost cost as much, using amsoil 5w40 euro oil about $40 my costs. Getting the fea done again on the 300d while I'm waiting for the pan to arrive at napa. That e320 4matic has a worse curse that this jetta tdi it seems. I found a conversion setup for jeeps using the om617 for less than $500! Thinking a nice hardtop wrangler or even an xj. Will sell the tdi to fund the project. Only thing I don't like is it requires the ax-15 manual trans, would prefer to use an AW4 auto. John Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Frank Sender: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 07:10:19 To: Subject: Re: [db] example of a poor design... Now let's talk about bad design, as opposed to driver error. In my '88 944, there is an oil cooler. It's a clever design which cools the oil with water by circulating it through a little heat exchanger that sits in a coolant-filled box. Good idea...when the car is cold, the coolant will heat the oil to proper temperature and keep it there when the car gets hot. One small problem...the heat exchanger is held in place with friction, and two viton o-rings are all that separate oil and water. When the rubber begins to fail you get a chocolate milkshake. The combo of oil and water ends to expand into steam wherever friction happens, with the result that your rod bearing are literally blown apart. Roll forward a dozen years. For my '99 E320, Mercedes copied the earlier Porsche design. This became obvious when I went to check the oil, and discovered a blob of chocolate mousse on the inside of the filler cap. So the car is once again idle in the driveway, until I can figure out how to change the seals. Then I'll change the oil and hope for the best. German engineering, bah humbug. Oh, as for kerbs. When the E320 was one month old, we had a nasty snow and ice storm. I naturally picked my proud 4 matic for the ride to work. On a slight downgrade, I hit a patch of slick ice. Antilocks didn't help. Pumping the brakes didn't help. Steering was dead. Fortunately (you would think), I was edging along at about five or ten MPH. No matter. I was stopped when the car slid sideways into the kerb. Turns out 4matics don't like being stopped this way. The axles were pounded right into the differentials., and the engine oil pan split. With not a scratch on the car, the cost to repair was north of $20K. But wait, that's not all. The insurance company allowed the entire repair to be done at a Mercedes dealer. I was truly in good hands. But at my next renewal, the insurance company raised my rates to $14,000 per year! Investigating, it turned out that they had peppered our DMV driving records with half a dozen incidents, at least three of which were errors or total fabrications. That gave them the excuse to put us in their high risk pool. Ever try to correct your driving records? Fortunately, my wife was responsible for insurance benefits at her job, and the corporate agent was able to get us a "deal"...only $5000 per year. It took several years of driving on eggshells to get the rate out of the stratosphere. Mike Frank At 03:28 AM 12/24/2010, john wrote: >I've worked on a lot of cars over the last 40 or so years... > >I've heard about the problems of the Jettas with the oil pan being kind >of low, like about 5" off the ground... protected by a plastic sheet... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 15:23:23 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Fwd: Mercedes OM617 diesel to Jeep Wrangler AX15 AX-15 NV3550 Adapter Kit http://mercedesdiesel4x4.com/Products.aspx ---- Subject: Mercedes OM617 diesel to Jeep Wrangler AX15 AX-15 NV3550 Adapter Kit ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 23:32:12 +0000 From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net Subject: fsj: Re: [SPAM] [MessageLimit][lowlimit] Re: [db] example of a poor design... I'm thinking old school jeep or scout, add a mercedes diesel and ac and call it good. :) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T - -----Original Message----- From: Edward Pomeroy Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 16:55:23 To: Cc: Michael Frank; ; dbl; xj; FSJ; Dave Subject: Re: [SPAM] [MessageLimit][lowlimit] Re: [db] example of a poor design... Don't feel bad guys, my son's Saturn L300 just threw up a check engine light - code 0128 which means the thermostat is not closing all the way and runs cold for too long per the computer. Great, easy fix.... not. To get to this item, have to remove the throttle body, the intake manifold and only then can you get to the damned housing. I have decided to do nothing, the car gives enough heat and son says it runs fine even at 10F. Idiot German engineering - whether it is Opel (Saturn) or Benz or VW it is the same anal retentive engineering, design for max compactness and assembly speed, not for repairs after the fact (like the A/C heat exchanger in the 300D that requires total dis-assembly of dash and console). Argh! And the hard shifting on the 300D is still with me, even after fixing one major vacuum leak, have to find the rest of them or pinpoint the cause.... Argh II! Merry Christmas to all. Keep wrenching.... Edward On 12/24/2010 4:36 PM, dieseljohn-at-comcast.net wrote: > Wow. Guess I feel lucky. Napa had the oil pan for around $140, the oil almost cost as much, using amsoil 5w40 euro oil about $40 my costs. > > Getting the fea done again on the 300d while I'm waiting for the pan to arrive at napa. > > That e320 4matic has a worse curse that this jetta tdi it seems. > > I found a conversion setup for jeeps using the om617 for less than $500! Thinking a nice hardtop wrangler or even an xj. Will sell the tdi to fund the project. Only thing I don't like is it requires the ax-15 manual trans, would prefer to use an AW4 auto. > > John > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Frank > Sender: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 07:10:19 > To: > Subject: Re: [db] example of a poor design... > > Now let's talk about bad design, as opposed to driver error. In my > '88 944, there is an oil cooler. It's a clever design which cools the > oil with water by circulating it through a little heat exchanger that > sits in a coolant-filled box. Good idea...when the car is cold, the > coolant will heat the oil to proper temperature and keep it there > when the car gets hot. One small problem...the heat exchanger is held > in place with friction, and two viton o-rings are all that separate > oil and water. When the rubber begins to fail you get a chocolate > milkshake. The combo of oil and water ends to expand into steam > wherever friction happens, with the result that your rod bearing are > literally blown apart. > > Roll forward a dozen years. For my '99 E320, Mercedes copied the > earlier Porsche design. This became obvious when I went to check the > oil, and discovered a blob of chocolate mousse on the inside of the > filler cap. So the car is once again idle in the driveway, until I > can figure out how to change the seals. Then I'll change the oil and > hope for the best. German engineering, bah humbug. > > Oh, as for kerbs. When the E320 was one month old, we had a nasty > snow and ice storm. I naturally picked my proud 4 matic for the ride > to work. On a slight downgrade, I hit a patch of slick ice. > Antilocks didn't help. Pumping the brakes didn't help. Steering was > dead. Fortunately (you would think), I was edging along at about five > or ten MPH. No matter. I was stopped when the car slid sideways into > the kerb. Turns out 4matics don't like being stopped this way. The > axles were pounded right into the differentials., and the engine oil > pan split. With not a scratch on the car, the cost to repair was > north of $20K. But wait, that's not all. The insurance company > allowed the entire repair to be done at a Mercedes dealer. I was > truly in good hands. But at my next renewal, the insurance company > raised my rates to $14,000 per year! Investigating, it turned out > that they had peppered our DMV driving records with half a dozen > incidents, at least three of which were errors or total fabrications. > That gave them the excuse to put us in their high risk pool. Ever try > to correct your driving records? Fortunately, my wife was responsible > for insurance benefits at her job, and the corporate agent was able > to get us a "deal"...only $5000 per year. It took several years of > driving on eggshells to get the rate out of the stratosphere. > > Mike Frank > > At 03:28 AM 12/24/2010, john wrote: >> I've worked on a lot of cars over the last 40 or so years... >> >> I've heard about the problems of the Jettas with the oil pan being kind >> of low, like about 5" off the ground... protected by a plastic sheet... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 22:23:40 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: fsj: Fwd: Mercedes OM617 diesel to Jeep Wrangler AX15 AX-15 NV3550 Adapter Kit that would be cool... but that company only makes it for the OM 617 and the AX-15... I may give them a call, I'd rather use my 602.962... or yours (careful where you park... ;) my son is talking about putting a 289 into his '85 300d... :) that's my OM617... been kind of looking at wranglers with hardtops... maybe I'll get lucky and find a hardtop with a/c, a DEAD 6 cylinder and 5 speed for cheap... Not sure yet if I want to go with a YJ or a TJ... leaf springs or coil springs... square headlights or round... really it's driven by price... the coil springs and round headlights would be my first choice... but beggars can't be choosers... Had the front end aligned on my benz today, they had a list of parts I should replace, left tie rod, etc... here's the specs, and $30 tabs explained: http://fotomeister.us/2010/12-Dec-24-TomWalsh-fea300D-mac-30dollarTabs/ALL.html On 12/24/2010 10:05 PM, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > What about the really new ones, like the OM642 (high-end/AMG option for many models, and primary engine for the Sprinters, if I recall correctly)? > > -bkc > Lynnwood, WA > (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] > (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT > (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] > > > On Fri Dec 24, 2010, John Meister wrote: >> I believe VW made both... the Volvo was a 6 cylinder... the audi Diesel might >> be ok, but still >> uses a rubber band... I can look into them if you'd like... >> >> I know the Mercedes Diesels are all good, better with a turbo of course... steer >> clear of the newer ones, after '95, >> and also the 3.5L TD in the big SDLs... they'd oval cylinders. >> >> the 3.0L used in the '86-'89 or so puts out a lot of power, but if overheated >> destroys the heads... >> mileage isn't great... >> >> but the 2.5L TD I have in mine is absolutely superb... mine is a 602.962 >> >> the '87 3.0L is a 603.960 >> >> the one in my son's '85 is a 617.952 >> the non-turbos are 617.012 >> >> >> >> On 12/24/2010 8:48 PM, Jim Blair wrote: >>> The 5 cyl Audi diesel is supposed to only be second to Mercedes for >>> reliability. The diesel Volvo made wasn't so hot. >>> >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 19:40:11 -0800 >>>> From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net >>>> To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com >>>> Subject: Re: fsj: Fwd: Mercedes OM617 diesel to Jeep Wrangler AX15 AX-15 >>> NV3550 Adapter Kit >>>> that's one of the worst Diesels you could use... the only one >>>> worse is likely the early - mid '80's BMWs. >>>> >>>> john:wq >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/24/2010 6:11 PM, Jim Blair wrote: >>>>> Just re-figured out that I can put an Audi/Volvo diesel in an XJ with AW4 >>> by using the Volvo AW30-43 trans (I think that's what the diesel uses in RWD >>> Volvos) >>>>> On 12/24/2010 4:36 PM, dieseljohn-at-comcast.net wrote: >>>>>> Wow. Guess I feel lucky. Napa had the oil pan for around $140, the oil >>> almost cost as much, using amsoil 5w40 euro oil about $40 my costs. >>>>>> Getting the fea done again on the 300d while I'm waiting for the pan to >>> arrive at napa. >>>>>> That e320 4matic has a worse curse that this jetta tdi it seems. >>>>>> >>>>>> I found a conversion setup for jeeps using the om617 for less than $500! >>> Thinking a nice hardtop wrangler or even an xj. Will sell the tdi to fund the >>> project. Only thing I don't like is it requires the ax-15 manual trans, would >>> prefer to use an AW4 auto. >>>>>> John > - -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 22:48:20 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Washington State DOL math We are supposed to have $30 license plate fees in Washington state. I just got my renewal for my 21 year old car... http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/30-dollar-tabs-explained-P1130372ce_2010-12-24.jpg yep, in Washington State $30 = $72.75, oh wait, IF I remember to opt out, it's only $67.75. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 12:18:17 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: not a WJ... http://comics.com/henry_payne/2010-12-26/ ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3668 **************************