From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jan 31 21:10:27 2011 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, February 1 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3695 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. Re: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. RE: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. RE: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. Re: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3693 fsj: Make shift gas tank, ATF acetone mix FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:55:29 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. I recall doing them in my 304 (except the back of the head) without too much trouble. I used a socket and short extension. Maybe while the manifolds were off? Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:40:52 -0500 > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > Today was warm enough to wake the Wagoneer up and take it around the house a > few times. (I am still driving with a gas can as my gas tank and borrowing the > battery out of the Dakota) so we are not quite ready for real driving. > > Anyway I discovered that the freeze plugs in my cylinder heads were leaking. > It looks like they are the steel freeze plugs and they have rusted out. So > does anybody have any experience with replacing these freeze plugs? It doesn't > look like access is great. > > The next question is how many hours to pull the whole front clip? Pulling the > front clip may get me better access to the heads and will be required to > replace the rocker panels anyway. Alternately I can pull the engine and > transmission which would allow me to do some more sandblasting and painting on > the frame as well as replacing the rest of the brake pipes and detailing the > engine. Or do I just go down the slippery slope and pull the drivetrain and > the clip and go crazy with the welder and the sandblaster and the paint gun? > > Mark Wallace > 81 Wag ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:39:12 -0800 From: Michel Balea Subject: Re: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. The only time I try to remove a freeze plug which was the heated plug, I ended using some radiator sealant..... that was 8 years ago.... The coolant temp was a bit higher.... but I drained half a gallon and added fresh coolant once every 2 weeks...... Knock on wood..... it is still tight. I have refresh the whole coolant at least once when I had the radiator repaired and reconditionned. As for the front clip..... I did give a shot when I was fixing the 66...... the hardest was the bolt by the radiator support. Some pb blaster or try the 50/50 acetone/ATF mix. I need a pict of that externally installed gas tank. We try to move the 66 last weekend.... I usually pours 2 gallons of fresh gas in the "dual tank" set up, but this time I forgot and of course it was a no go: 1) the float was stuck and 2) there was no gas flowing in the line because the tanks were dry and the gas that trickled down the line was more syrup than "varnish" but it started while dumping some gas down the throat. Cheers Michel 66, 74 and 85 wagneers On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Jim Blair wrote: > I recall doing them in my 304 (except the back of the head) without too > much > trouble. I used a socket and short extension. Maybe while the manifolds > were > off? > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > > > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:40:52 -0500 > > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > > > Today was warm enough to wake the Wagoneer up and take it around the > house > a > > few times. (I am still driving with a gas can as my gas tank and > borrowing > the > > battery out of the Dakota) so we are not quite ready for real driving. > > > > Anyway I discovered that the freeze plugs in my cylinder heads were > leaking. > > It looks like they are the steel freeze plugs and they have rusted out. > So > > does anybody have any experience with replacing these freeze plugs? It > doesn't > > look like access is great. > > > > The next question is how many hours to pull the whole front clip? Pulling > the > > front clip may get me better access to the heads and will be required to > > replace the rocker panels anyway. Alternately I can pull the engine and > > transmission which would allow me to do some more sandblasting and > painting > on > > the frame as well as replacing the rest of the brake pipes and detailing > the > > engine. Or do I just go down the slippery slope and pull the drivetrain > and > > the clip and go crazy with the welder and the sandblaster and the paint > gun? > > > > Mark Wallace > > 81 Wag ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:11:02 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. On the '82 Honcho I have a 2 gallon gas can with hooks on it (I made a basket around it with coat hangers) that hangs on the grill and has a hose poked in with a clamp on the inside so it won't pull out. I cut the hose on a double Vee angle (so it can't block off against the bottom). Then I put the hose in (through the hole I drilled in the can) till it touched the bottom and marked it with electrical tape. I fished the hose to the original pour spout and put a hose clamp on below the tape and made it tight enough to not slip, yet let gas through. Then it was simply a matter of hooking a long hose with an inline filter to the fuel pump and blocking off the third line on the original filter (vapor return needs blocking or the gas can empties quickly!) > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:39:12 -0800 > Subject: Re: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. > From: michelbalea-at-gmail.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > The only time I try to remove a freeze plug which was the heated plug, I > ended using some radiator sealant..... that was 8 years ago.... The coolant > temp was a bit higher.... but I drained half a gallon and added fresh > coolant once every 2 weeks...... Knock on wood..... it is still tight. I > have refresh the whole coolant at least once when I had the radiator > repaired and reconditionned. > > As for the front clip..... I did give a shot when I was fixing the 66...... > the hardest was the bolt by the radiator support. Some pb blaster or try the > 50/50 acetone/ATF mix. > > I need a pict of that externally installed gas tank. We try to move the 66 > last weekend.... I usually pours 2 gallons of fresh gas in the "dual tank" > set up, but this time I forgot and of course it was a no go: 1) the float > was stuck and 2) there was no gas flowing in the line because the tanks were > dry and the gas that trickled down the line was more syrup than "varnish" > but it started while dumping some gas down the throat. > > Cheers > Michel > 66, 74 and 85 wagneers > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Jim Blair wrote: > > > I recall doing them in my 304 (except the back of the head) without too > > much > > trouble. I used a socket and short extension. Maybe while the manifolds > > were > > off? > > > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > > > > > > > > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > > Subject: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. > > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:40:52 -0500 > > > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > > > > > Today was warm enough to wake the Wagoneer up and take it around the > > house > > a > > > few times. (I am still driving with a gas can as my gas tank and > > borrowing > > the > > > battery out of the Dakota) so we are not quite ready for real driving. > > > > > > Anyway I discovered that the freeze plugs in my cylinder heads were > > leaking. > > > It looks like they are the steel freeze plugs and they have rusted out. > > So > > > does anybody have any experience with replacing these freeze plugs? It > > doesn't > > > look like access is great. > > > > > > The next question is how many hours to pull the whole front clip? Pulling > > the > > > front clip may get me better access to the heads and will be required to > > > replace the rocker panels anyway. Alternately I can pull the engine and > > > transmission which would allow me to do some more sandblasting and > > painting > > on > > > the frame as well as replacing the rest of the brake pipes and detailing > > the > > > engine. Or do I just go down the slippery slope and pull the drivetrain > > and > > > the clip and go crazy with the welder and the sandblaster and the paint > > gun? > > > > > > Mark Wallace > > > 81 Wag ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:31:20 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. did you see that thing in the news where some folks did something like this in a van and ended up in intensive care because of burns... didn't get all the details, but the news showed the smoldering ruins of the van... guess something was wrong with the fuel pump so they were pouring gas down the carb manually to get around... not quite the same, but all the more reason why I don't like carbs, or gasoline... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 31 Jan 2011, Jim Blair wrote: # On the '82 Honcho I have a 2 gallon gas can with hooks on it (I made a basket # around it with coat hangers) that hangs on the grill and has a hose poked in # with a clamp on the inside so it won't pull out. # I cut the hose on a double Vee angle (so it can't block off against the # bottom). Then I put the hose in (through the hole I drilled in the can) till # it touched the bottom and marked it with electrical tape. # I fished the hose to the original pour spout and put a hose clamp on below # the tape and made it tight enough to not slip, yet let gas through. # Then it was simply a matter of hooking a long hose with an inline filter to # the fuel pump and blocking off the third line on the original filter (vapor # return needs blocking or the gas can empties quickly!) # # > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:39:12 -0800 # > Subject: Re: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. # > From: michelbalea-at-gmail.com # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > CC: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net # > # > The only time I try to remove a freeze plug which was the heated plug, I # > ended using some radiator sealant..... that was 8 years ago.... The coolant # > temp was a bit higher.... but I drained half a gallon and added fresh # > coolant once every 2 weeks...... Knock on wood..... it is still tight. I # > have refresh the whole coolant at least once when I had the radiator # > repaired and reconditionned. # > # > As for the front clip..... I did give a shot when I was fixing the 66...... # > the hardest was the bolt by the radiator support. Some pb blaster or try # the # > 50/50 acetone/ATF mix. # > # > I need a pict of that externally installed gas tank. We try to move the 66 # > last weekend.... I usually pours 2 gallons of fresh gas in the "dual tank" # > set up, but this time I forgot and of course it was a no go: 1) the float # > was stuck and 2) there was no gas flowing in the line because the tanks # were # > dry and the gas that trickled down the line was more syrup than "varnish" # > but it started while dumping some gas down the throat. # > # > Cheers # > Michel # > 66, 74 and 85 wagneers # > # > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > > I recall doing them in my 304 (except the back of the head) without too # > > much # > > trouble. I used a socket and short extension. Maybe while the manifolds # > > were # > > off? # > > # > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > > # > > # > > # > > # > > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net # > > > Subject: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. # > > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:40:52 -0500 # > > > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com # > > > # > > > Today was warm enough to wake the Wagoneer up and take it around the # > > house # > > a # > > > few times. (I am still driving with a gas can as my gas tank and # > > borrowing # > > the # > > > battery out of the Dakota) so we are not quite ready for real driving. # > > > # > > > Anyway I discovered that the freeze plugs in my cylinder heads were # > > leaking. # > > > It looks like they are the steel freeze plugs and they have rusted out. # > > So # > > > does anybody have any experience with replacing these freeze plugs? It # > > doesn't # > > > look like access is great. # > > > # > > > The next question is how many hours to pull the whole front clip? # Pulling # > > the # > > > front clip may get me better access to the heads and will be required # to # > > > replace the rocker panels anyway. Alternately I can pull the engine and # > > > transmission which would allow me to do some more sandblasting and # > > painting # > > on # > > > the frame as well as replacing the rest of the brake pipes and # detailing # > > the # > > > engine. Or do I just go down the slippery slope and pull the drivetrain # > > and # > > > the clip and go crazy with the welder and the sandblaster and the paint # > > gun? # > > > # > > > Mark Wallace # > > > 81 Wag # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:24:07 -0800 From: Michel Balea Subject: Re: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. Gas vapor are pretty much flammable.... and yes we had a 50/50 chance of fire when we poured gas down the carb throat, we started a small fire.... this is where the baseball cap or the leather glove is handy. We discovered it as teens when we decided to speed up a camp fire.... pour some gas on the smoldering fire.... from a 5 gallon can.... and I will remember when we say no.... but our friend did not hear us.... the flame went up the gasoline pour and our friend was fast enough to throw the whole can in the river.... and all our spare gas ignited on the river.... Michel On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:31 AM, john wrote: > did you see that thing in the news where some folks did something like this > in > a van and ended up in intensive care because of burns... didn't get all the > details, but the news showed the smoldering ruins of the van... guess > something > was wrong with the fuel pump so they were pouring gas down the carb > manually > to get around... not quite the same, but all the more reason why I don't > like carbs, or gasoline... > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2011, Jim Blair wrote: > > # On the '82 Honcho I have a 2 gallon gas can with hooks on it (I made a > basket > # around it with coat hangers) that hangs on the grill and has a hose > poked in > # with a clamp on the inside so it won't pull out. > # I cut the hose on a double Vee angle (so it can't block off against > the > # bottom). Then I put the hose in (through the hole I drilled in the can) > till > # it touched the bottom and marked it with electrical tape. > # I fished the hose to the original pour spout and put a hose clamp on > below > # the tape and made it tight enough to not slip, yet let gas through. > # Then it was simply a matter of hooking a long hose with an inline > filter to > # the fuel pump and blocking off the third line on the original filter > (vapor > # return needs blocking or the gas can empties quickly!) > # > # > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:39:12 -0800 > # > Subject: Re: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. > # > From: michelbalea-at-gmail.com > # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > # > CC: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net > # > > # > The only time I try to remove a freeze plug which was the heated plug, > I > # > ended using some radiator sealant..... that was 8 years ago.... The > coolant > # > temp was a bit higher.... but I drained half a gallon and added fresh > # > coolant once every 2 weeks...... Knock on wood..... it is still tight. > I > # > have refresh the whole coolant at least once when I had the radiator > # > repaired and reconditionned. > # > > # > As for the front clip..... I did give a shot when I was fixing the > 66...... > # > the hardest was the bolt by the radiator support. Some pb blaster or > try > # the > # > 50/50 acetone/ATF mix. > # > > # > I need a pict of that externally installed gas tank. We try to move > the 66 > # > last weekend.... I usually pours 2 gallons of fresh gas in the "dual > tank" > # > set up, but this time I forgot and of course it was a no go: 1) the > float > # > was stuck and 2) there was no gas flowing in the line because the > tanks > # were > # > dry and the gas that trickled down the line was more syrup than > "varnish" > # > but it started while dumping some gas down the throat. > # > > # > Cheers > # > Michel > # > 66, 74 and 85 wagneers > # > > # > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Jim Blair > wrote: > # > > # > > I recall doing them in my 304 (except the back of the head) without > too > # > > much > # > > trouble. I used a socket and short extension. Maybe while the > manifolds > # > > were > # > > off? > # > > > # > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > > > # > > > # > > > # > > > # > > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > # > > > Subject: fsj: Freeze plugs and front clip. > # > > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:40:52 -0500 > # > > > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > # > > > > # > > > Today was warm enough to wake the Wagoneer up and take it around > the > # > > house > # > > a > # > > > few times. (I am still driving with a gas can as my gas tank and > # > > borrowing > # > > the > # > > > battery out of the Dakota) so we are not quite ready for real > driving. > # > > > > # > > > Anyway I discovered that the freeze plugs in my cylinder heads > were > # > > leaking. > # > > > It looks like they are the steel freeze plugs and they have rusted > out. > # > > So > # > > > does anybody have any experience with replacing these freeze > plugs? It > # > > doesn't > # > > > look like access is great. > # > > > > # > > > The next question is how many hours to pull the whole front clip? > # Pulling > # > > the > # > > > front clip may get me better access to the heads and will be > required > # to > # > > > replace the rocker panels anyway. Alternately I can pull the > engine and > # > > > transmission which would allow me to do some more sandblasting and > # > > painting > # > > on > # > > > the frame as well as replacing the rest of the brake pipes and > # detailing > # > > the > # > > > engine. Or do I just go down the slippery slope and pull the > drivetrain > # > > and > # > > > the clip and go crazy with the welder and the sandblaster and the > paint > # > > gun? > # > > > > # > > > Mark Wallace > # > > > 81 Wag > # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 16:01:58 -0700 From: Troy Phagan Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3693 On 1/28/2011 9:47 PM, fsj-digest wrote: > Subject: fsj: 304 vs Stroker 6 > > Hi all, > > Jim, I remember you suggested considering a 304 as a replacement in > the J10, instead of a stroker 6 build. > > This has got to have some merit. > > It seems most people spend time trying to get these motors to > breathe. The sixes and eights have the same size valves, 1.94/1.5. > Good stroker builds show about 265 hp, maybe 290 lb-ft, but the sixes > have the longer stroke. Which have to move slightly more air per > cylinder: 360/8 = 45 cu in,, 282/6 = 47 cu in (stroker 4.6) > > Getting bigger valves in a 6 cyl head, there are some on ebay with > raised ports and beautiful machining for $1600, um, I don't think > so. And by the time you're at that level, you're thinking roller cam > = $1100. This is starting to get silly. > > The 304 must be more efficient at moving air, right out of the box, > if it uses the same heads as the 360 with an undersquare bore/stroke > ratio... 304/8 = 32.5 cu in per cylinder. And you get the cross flow > head with better intake runner design, and more cubic inches out of > the box than the stroker. Less money would need to be invested in > head work to improve the flow relative to the size of the motor. > > There's a 304 on Craigslist in San Antonio for sale, in good shape, > for 800, maybe that's a better go. > Any other thoughts on this? > > - - Landon re: For that money, it had better be a ready to swap, running, usable 304. Around here, lots of guys are practically giving away rebuild-able 304's out of the CJ's. Most are swapping in the 4.0 or Chevy 350, not rebuilding the AMC V8's. This fall, I got a running wagoneer with a rebuilt 401 for $550. We recently had our Colorado gov'mint re-instate emissions laws for my county, which weren't an issue before. (It's a long story; we had emissions, they went away, now they're back....) So, I am not sure how this is all going to pan out for myself yet, though. Bottom line is you can probably get a 304 project motor for less money. - -- - -Troy Troy Phagan C.R.P. 4x4& Auto Accessories 2102 9th ST Greeley, CO 80631 970-351-8603 fax: 970-353-3066 tsp-at-crptruck.com www.crptruck.com www.smilingcharleys.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 23:52:30 -0500 From: Mark Wallace Subject: fsj: Make shift gas tank, ATF acetone mix Ahh the makeshift gas tank. I have no illusions that my make shift gas tank is dangerous. But here is all it is...I'll take some pics when I have it back together. Tomorrow I will be using the gas can for the snowblower...but that's a different story. Under the back seat there is an access plate to get to the top of the gas tank. I have just pulled that access plate completely. It's not the largest hole in the floor either. The send and return pipes terminate pretty close to that plate. I made new send and return pipes last summer that pretty well match the originals. I have the return capped with a bolt. (Also not recommended for anything other than driving around the yard) and then I have a hose coming in the floor that I put on a piece of copper pipe that I had kicking around so there is a straight wand going into the gas can. I mainly used the piece of copper because the rubber hose I had wasn't long enough to reach the gas. And I just stick that into the opening in the gas can which I put behind the driver's seat. I wouldn't dare take this setup onto a street with any traffic. I have also started the Wag on chain saw gas which I am now thinking was probably a decent idea after dealing with that Ford 390 with the seized valves. When I first got my MG I started it up with the gas can sitting on the roof (it's a hardtop) and I just siphoned the gas down to the carburettors and let gravity feed them. And I just had a battery sitting on the floor beside the car that didn't fit in the battery box. I used coolant that I had in a bucket that had come from doing a timing chain on a friend's XJ in the freezing Michigan winter. I think I filtered it through a coffee filter to get the bugs out of it. I had an old furnace fan mounted in the vent in that garage so I could use that garage as a "spray booth" so I didn't have too much trouble with exhaust fumes. Now that I think of it the Wag's coolant originated in my dad's Explorer. With starting and engine either to move a car or test an engine the gas can insures that you are not starting up with stale gas. The acetone and ATF mix...put on your safety glasses, your welding hat, your ear plugs and probably ought to put out your cigar as well. If the OSHA guy is coming by you might want to hide your beer too. With freeing up the stuck valves on the Ford 390 we used Marvel Mystery Oil which my understanding is pretty close to ATF. ATF has detergents and solvents in it. Ever notice that when you get ATF all over your hands and you wipe your hands off your hands are clean? Mark Wallace 81 Wag ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3695 **************************