From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Feb 17 18:55:03 2011
From: fsj-digest <owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net>
fsj-digest Friday, February 18 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3701
Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps
Brian Colucci <ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net>
Digest Coordinator
Contents:
fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3700 VW Unibody panel
Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3700 VW Unibody panel
fsj: Re: vw panels glued together
fsj: Trailer wiring and cleaning the shed
fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list
fsj: Re: Euro lights - options - Hauptscheinwerfer mit Nebelscheinwerfer
fsj: pulling engines on lifted vehicles
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 13:46:36 -0700
From: Troy Phagan <tsp-at-crptruck.com>
Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3700 VW Unibody panel
RE: the VW Unibody side panel piece; another method to is get a used
(junkyard) quarter panel, and splice it in. It's way more labor, but it
usually much cheaper for the proper sheet metal.
Splicing uni-panel sections is not always the manufacturer's preferred
or allowed method. When it is done, sectioning the large uni-panels is
normally done with new parts. But, using used panels does happen. This
is common with cut-rate insurance companies (All-State, Progressive,
Farmer's, others. This may only apply to CO, it varies by state
regulations.)
You would want to work with the salvage yard and be sure they cut well
beyond the part areas that you need. Not every yard will do this, and
most don't really know much about proper body sectioning. (Insert image
of junkyard 'mechanic' with a cutting torch here.) You would then
carefully use the special spot weld cutting tool bits to remove the used
piece(s) from the un-needed inner sections they are attached to. Also,
be aware that some uni-side panels have adhesive that bonds the outer
skin to the inner reinforcements at locations that cannot be welded
properly. You will have to carefully split the pieces, and re-bond
with adhesives at those locations as well.
Here is an overview of the topic from an industry source:
http://abrn.search-autoparts.com/abrn/Hands-On+Management/Quarter-panels/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/560467
I googled for "how to section a quarter panel" and found a PDF result
for a Chevy Cobalt (the URL started with www.goodwrench.com/.... it was
too long to cut and paste onto the list.); it conveys the basic concepts
of what would be done. If you look harder you might find something that
relates to the VW, but it tends to be hidden,
dealer-factory-trained-technician-only data sources.
Here's a few places you might look for info:
http://www.i-car.com/
http://www.scrs.com/
And the various auto body trade magazines:
http://abrn.search-autoparts.com/
http://www.autobodyonline.com/
http://www.autobodynews.com/
Honestly though, I'd start with the google searches of course.
Good luck,
-T
- --
- -Troy
Troy Phagan
C.R.P. 4x4& Auto Accessories
2102 9th ST
Greeley, CO 80631
970-351-8603
fax: 970-353-3066
tsp-at-crptruck.com
www.crptruck.com
www.smilingcharleys.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 13:20:05 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com>
Subject: Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3700 VW Unibody panel
this is excellent info... from what I can determine from the shop manual there are a few
tack welds with the rest of those panels being attached with adhesives....
how does one separate properly parts that are glued together?
one option I am considering due to cost and lack of tools/skills, is to buy after market sideskirts
and remove as much of the damaged parts as possible and hide the missing pieces with those skirts...
then I'll hammer as smooth as possible the quarter panel/fender and use body filler to resculpt
the flare so it matches stock... I've done this before to rear quarter panels so I know how it
will NOT age well, but it'll look better and save a lot of labor/work/costs... and then I'll
keep my eyes open for a new rear bumper skin...
thanx
john
-----
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold
http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum
http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 14 Feb 2011, Troy Phagan wrote:
# RE: the VW Unibody side panel piece; another method to is get a used
# (junkyard) quarter panel, and splice it in. It's way more labor, but it
# usually much cheaper for the proper sheet metal.
#
# Splicing uni-panel sections is not always the manufacturer's preferred or
# allowed method. When it is done, sectioning the large uni-panels is normally
# done with new parts. But, using used panels does happen. This is common with
# cut-rate insurance companies (All-State, Progressive, Farmer's, others.
# This may only apply to CO, it varies by state regulations.)
#
# You would want to work with the salvage yard and be sure they cut well beyond
# the part areas that you need. Not every yard will do this, and most don't
# really know much about proper body sectioning. (Insert image of junkyard
# 'mechanic' with a cutting torch here.) You would then carefully use the
# special spot weld cutting tool bits to remove the used piece(s) from the
# un-needed inner sections they are attached to. Also, be aware that some
# uni-side panels have adhesive that bonds the outer skin to the inner
# reinforcements at locations that cannot be welded properly. You will have
# to carefully split the pieces, and re-bond with adhesives at those locations
# as well.
#
# Here is an overview of the topic from an industry source:
#
# http://abrn.search-autoparts.com/abrn/Hands-On+Management/Quarter-panels/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/560467
#
# I googled for "how to section a quarter panel" and found a PDF result for a
# Chevy Cobalt (the URL started with www.goodwrench.com/.... it was too long
# to cut and paste onto the list.); it conveys the basic concepts of what would
# be done. If you look harder you might find something that relates to the VW,
# but it tends to be hidden, dealer-factory-trained-technician-only data
# sources.
#
# Here's a few places you might look for info:
#
# http://www.i-car.com/
# http://www.scrs.com/
#
# And the various auto body trade magazines:
#
# http://abrn.search-autoparts.com/
# http://www.autobodyonline.com/
# http://www.autobodynews.com/
#
# Honestly though, I'd start with the google searches of course.
#
# Good luck,
# -T
#
#
#
#
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:43:52 -0700
From: Troy Phagan <tsp-at-crptruck.com>
Subject: fsj: Re: vw panels glued together
> how does one separate properly parts that are glued together?
>
Sometimes all that is needed is heat and lots of ventilation, but it's
rarely that easy.
Usually, you just carefully cut access holes in the damaged outer
layer quarter panel (which is being replaced anyway) to gain access.
Then, box cutter knifes, air powered saw tools, grinders, etc, are used
to cut at the adhesives, all the while carefully trying to only cut /
nick / damage only the parts that are being removed.
This is where the used panels are most problematic, and lots of labor.
With used panels, you perform the same procedures, but usually from the
reverse orientation. (Starting with the inner floor or rocker, and
working your way out to the quarter panel skin.) Depending upon the
vehicle design, it's just not always possible, and entire inner
reinforcement sections must be removed, and then reinstalled in
preparation for other layers and pieces. PITA, but the parts are
usually cheap. In years past, I have bought entire salvaged quarter car
sections for $100. Notice the terminology, though: it's not the quarter
panel fender piece; it's a chunk of vehicle you have to turn into a
quarter panel fender piece. The $600 new OEM skin looks much more
reasonable once you have done one the other way...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 01:53:11 -0500
From: Mark Wallace <wallacem7-at-aol.com>
Subject: fsj: Trailer wiring and cleaning the shed
How many of us are using full size Jeeps to pull a trailer? What kind of
trailers are we pulling and are we doing electric brakes or surge brakes. How
heavy of trailers are we pulling? Is anybody running a trans temp gauge?
I have slowly been cleaning the shed and putting all the bits that have been
pulled off parts cars that seemed "useful" that I have been carting around for
the last two decades on ebay. If anybody wants some of the old style
wraparound taillights before I put them on ebay say the word.
Mark Wallace
81 Wag
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 07:15:03 +0000
From: Richard Welty <rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com>
Subject: fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list
Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ"
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Table of Contents
1. Why don't my postings go through?
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5. What other lists are on digest.net?
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8. How do I contact the server adminstrator in an emergency?
9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway?
The Meta-FAQ
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For more information, see the web site.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:45:41 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com>
Subject: fsj: Re: Euro lights - options - Hauptscheinwerfer mit Nebelscheinwerfer
this is a great link...
http://imports.mparam.com/procedures/headlights.cfm
very informative, I wondered about those blue lights,
yes, they do seem like emergency lights... very interesting...
sharing...
btw, I'm thinking that I will get the aftermarket "bora" fog lights that go under the bumper
and in the grilles below, since I'm missing one grille this solves another problem at the same
time. I bought a Euro switch on ebay that came with the wiring needed for the foglight as well,
will allow me to disable the daylight running lights. Will still run with lights on, but at least
this way I have an option... options are good... gauges are better than idiot lights... switches
better than automatic operation...
which makes me think of the stupidity of the toyota design that killed that CA state trooper...
who in their right mind would design an ignition system that required you to "press and hold
for three seconds" to shut your car off...???? who's going to know that off the top of your
head... with a loaner or rental car??? and at speed??? they NEED a KILL SWITCH on those cars,
just like they required on mini-bikes, go-karts and lawnmowers... just one of those random thoughts.
john
-----
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold
http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum
http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 14 Feb 2011, Stephen Cahill wrote:
# Hello John
# You have to meet certain requirements for lighting in the USA and Canada.
# If the lamp is not stamped for the USA it can be a problem in parts of the
# US.
# Better to stick with Hella's that are rated for on road use in the USA.
# Have a read. I know you like this deep stuff.
#
# http://imports.mparam.com/procedures/headlights.cfm
#
# Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 21:53:43 -0500
From: Mark Wallace <wallacem7-at-aol.com>
Subject: fsj: pulling engines on lifted vehicles
I am finding myself at the point where I want to pull my engine to do some
work. I haven't pulled an engine from a lifted vehicle is a while and i also
haven't measured how high the ceiling is in the garage. I haven't decided if I
am just going to pull the engine replace the freeze plugs and stick it back in
or if I am going to head down the slippery slope and pull the whole
drivetrain, sandblast and paint the rest of the frame, replace the rest of the
brake pipes, repair the rust in the floor, pull the front clip and deal with
the rocker panels and so on.
So does anybody have any thoughts I need to consider on pulling the engine
from a lifted Wag? I am inclined to pull the transmission as well. I have in
the past pulled the transmission with the engine or pulled the transmission
out the bottom. If I recall it is easier to pull the trans and the engine
together, but it is a lot of weight hanging on the cherry picker. How are
other people handling this task?
Mark Wallace
81 Wag
------------------------------
End of fsj-digest V1 #3701
**************************