From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 15 22:25:26 1999 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, September 16 1999 Volume 01 : Number 551 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: re: timing mark Re: fsj: re: timing mark fsj: 360 timing mark Re: fsj: Rear Window Trouble fsj: Re: timing, ATF and fuel... Re: fsj: Re: timing, ATF and fuel... fsj: Fuel injection fsj: Timing fsj: 258 MPI update please? fsj: Fuel Injection Re: fsj: 258 MPI update please? Re: fsj: Timing Re: fsj: Fuel Injection fsj: FWD: '88 FSJ for Sale fsj: drive a Texas J10 to Seattle anyone? Re: fsj: drive a Texas J10 to Seattle anyone? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:46:01 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: re: timing mark On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Lee Bruner wrote: >-->Hi John, >--> You will probably get a lot of answers to your timing mark question, but >-->on my '72 its on the right hand side of the engine, on the HB of course, at >-->about 10 o'clock. You kinda have to get down the side of the engine to see >-->it, and the hand with the timing light is uncomfortably close to the fan. >-->hope this helps. Lee thanx... what's HB? john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA NOTE: Washington State has anti-spam laws: $500 per occurrence. (spam is unsolicitied commercial email.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:04:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: re: timing mark Harmonic Balancer. - -brad John writes: > On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Lee Bruner wrote: > > >-->Hi John, > >--> You will probably get a lot of answers to your timing mark question, but > >-->on my '72 its on the right hand side of the engine, on the HB of course, at > >-->about 10 o'clock. You kinda have to get down the side of the engine to see > >-->it, and the hand with the timing light is uncomfortably close to the fan. > >-->hope this helps. Lee > > thanx... > what's HB? > > john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:47:40 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: 360 timing mark You've probably had lots of responses by now, but... There is a scored mark about the width of a pencil line across the outer face of the harmonic balancer. Paint it with "White Out" or chalk and it's very easy to see. Of course you may have to wire brush all the accumulated crud off first. : ) Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:13:53 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Rear Window Trouble cool, maybe you ought to write up the fix, take some pix and share it with the list (and I'll put it on my server for others to see... :) john On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, toboggan hill farm wrote: >-->Hi John, >--> >-->Thank you for the tips. The problem turned out to be the switch that is >-->activated by the key mechanism. Parts stores don't stock it. The dealer >-->wanted $50 and a couple of weeks to get it. I got one at radio shack for a >-->little over $3 and it is working great (with only minimal modifications). >--> >-->Thanks for the help. >-->Brett >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: john >-->To: toboggan hill farm >-->Cc: fsj-at-digest.net >-->Date: Sunday, September 12, 1999 12:59 AM >-->Subject: Re: fsj: Rear Window Trouble >--> >--> >-->>check the connection under the dash for the rear window... my >-->>77 did the same thing... when I was checking some other wiring >-->>I noticed the connector had come off... >-->> >-->>if that doesn't fix it you could have tangled up weather stripping, >-->>somewhere on my jeep pages on wagoneers.com is some how tos put together >-->>by the michael baxter and also some by the late joe sego... >-->>john >-->> >-->>At 12:08 AM 9/12/99 -0400, toboggan hill farm wrote: >-->>>My rear window is down, and will not go up. Here is what happened. >-->>>I have an '83 Wagoneer w/115,000 miles. I was replacing a cracked and >-->>>leaking power steering hose (which I think is irrelevant when considering >-->my >-->>>current problem) and a couple of belts. When I went to start it the next >-->>>day the battery was completely drained. I put the charger on it and have >-->>>not had a reoccurrence on that problem since. But... When I tried to >-->open >-->>>the tailgate window using the dash control, nothing happened. The keyed >-->>>switch on the tailgate itself still worked just fine (but only for about 3 >-->>>more times). Yesterday I put the window down, then tried to put it back >-->up >-->>>and got nothing. So now I am stuck with the back window wide open. I >-->>>would appreciate any thoughts you may have concerning what my problem >-->>>(actually my jeep's problem) may be. >-->>> >-->>>p.s., I was going to take the keyed switch out of the tailgate to see if >-->>>staring at the inside part would be any more productive than staring at >-->the >-->>>outside. When I went to remove it, I found that AMC invented a nifty >-->>>looking bolt/screw head requiring a special tool which I do not possess. >-->>> >-->>>Thanks, >-->>>Brett >-->>> >-->>> >-->>------------------------------------------------------- >-->> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com >-->> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >-->>Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >-->> Washington has laws prohibiting unsolicited commercial >-->> email, aka: SPAM. $500 per message. I report abuse. >-->>-------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA NOTE: Washington State has anti-spam laws: $500 per occurrence. (spam is unsolicitied commercial email.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:48:44 EDT From: OrigamiTB-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: timing, ATF and fuel... On Tue, 14 Sep, john wrote: > Ok, after some 12 years of FSJ ownership I need to make a confession... > ...it seems that I've owned what, 3, 4, maybe 5 AMC 360 engines > over the years? And guess what? I've yet to see where the flippin' > timing mark is. :) I'm beginning to see why you're so fond of the Chevy small-block! > So I tried to time this 77 by ear... didn't get it right... :) > So, where is it??? They're on the right (passenger) side of the engine, alongside the harmonic dampener. There's not much room to get a look, so I get my head down next to the battery and squint behind the alternator to see it on my '73. Very few people can properly time an engine by ear, and most of those that I've known who can do a good job of it have been motorcycle guys. ++ Cornel Ormsby ++ Wagoneering in Vegas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:56:03 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: timing, ATF and fuel... on fsj's I've only been timing by ear... or by Jim... rofl... :) ( I get it close, drive it into town and let jim the mechanic fix it... :) john On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 OrigamiTB-at-aol.com wrote: >-->On Tue, 14 Sep, john wrote: >--> >-->> Ok, after some 12 years of FSJ ownership I need to make a confession... >-->> ...it seems that I've owned what, 3, 4, maybe 5 AMC 360 engines >-->> over the years? And guess what? I've yet to see where the flippin' >-->> timing mark is. :) >--> >-->I'm beginning to see why you're so fond of the Chevy small-block! >--> >-->> So I tried to time this 77 by ear... didn't get it right... :) >-->> So, where is it??? >--> >-->They're on the right (passenger) side of the engine, alongside the harmonic >-->dampener. There's not much room to get a look, so I get my head down >-->next to the battery and squint behind the alternator to see it on my '73. >--> >-->Very few people can properly time an engine by ear, and most of those >-->that I've known who can do a good job of it have been motorcycle guys. >--> >-->++ Cornel Ormsby ++ >-->Wagoneering in Vegas >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA NOTE: Washington State has anti-spam laws: $500 per occurrence. (spam is unsolicitied commercial email.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:19:04 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Fuel injection john writes: >> Ray in MI has the TBI setup... Michael Baxter is setting up a custom= MPI on a 401... :) And I think James Blair is planning on putting a 4.0L= head on his 258... And Tom Anhalt did an MPI conversion on his 258... << I'm still waiting for the release of the Calibrator. Which is a tool to tune the data in the Ford EEC-IV ECU. I'm not going to invest any of my zero free time until I'm sure I can tune the data :-). Good news, the Calibrator is, this time, supposed to be released in Oct. -- Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 15-Sep-1999 = ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:19:05 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Timing john > So I tried to time this 77 by ear... didn't get it right... :) So, where is it??? << "Bryan Havenstein" on ORC writes: >> Where the heck is the plate or placard that you shine the timing light= on on the 360? I don't see it. << The timing scale is cast into the timing cover around the crankshaft/balancer pulley at about the 11 o/clock position. You can clea= n it with a rag from underneath but, you'll be working in the blind. There is a window in the tri-angular alternator bracket which you look through to see the timing scale. Sight down the timing light like you wou= ld a hand gun and you'll be able to see the timing marks. -- Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 15-Sep-1999 = ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:19:03 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: 258 MPI update please? Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) writes: >> A: That's okay! It reminded me to ask you about those MPG numbers. The Mopar guys are doing some kind of throttle body conversion to a 4 bbl= like setup with the EFI, and claiming around 25 mpg from the 5.2L and 5.8= L Grand Cherokees! The engineers apparently messed up a digit in their calculations for the air these things want, which is why the crapola economy from the factory! << The 5.2L and 5.9L Magnums respond extremely well to improved breathing and exhaust. I'm not sure what it does to the fuel economy, but it can on= ly help. The K&N set-up for them is good for 15-20 HP all by itself. That pu= ts them much closer to their advertised output. My bone with the Magnums is the engineers didn't give them enough compression ratio to be competitive with Ford and Chevy's. Even the old 5.0L, which has been basically the same since '86 and is only rated at 21= 5 HP, can easily run with them in the real world and gets much better mileage. I read a short review of the Durango (/Dakota) in the back of the newest Car & Driver mag. just last night. The Durango with the 5.9L is EPA rated= at 12 and 16 MPG. The new 4.7L is EPA rated at 14 and 17 MPG. The 5.2L wa= s just replaced by the 4.7L in the Durango/Dakota but, the 5.9L is still an= available option. Car & Driver ran performance tests on both and said forget the 5.9L. The 4.7L has exactly the same performance 0-60 and in th= e 1/4 mile and it gets better mileage, of course. The performance is amazin= g considering the 1200cc less displacement. I have long term test results of a GC 5.9L Limited from, I think, Four Wheeler. They were very disappointed. The byline was did the GC 5.9L= Ltd. deserve it's "Four Wheeler of the Year" win. The AMC head design on the Magnums has been surpassed...FSJ content. -- Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 15-Sep-1999 = ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:22:56 EDT From: Grtdaneguy-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Fuel Injection Does anyone know where I would begin to look for a fuel injection system for a 360 V-8. I'm considering changing over but I'm not sure where to start> Any help would be great. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:23:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: 258 MPI update please? A: My plan was to take the 5.2L and put a Dodge 340 billeted crank in it for more compression (1/16" more stroke), and more go power and maybe a oomphy cam and the 4 bbl setup with headers to make it sound nice too! What the hey! If it's going to be a gas guzzler, I want it to be fun to fuel up! I bet with my mods, I could run propane and make it REALLY worth my while! I wrote: That's okay! It reminded me to ask you about those MPG numbers. The Mopar guys are doing some kind of throttle body conversion to a 4 bbl like setup with the EFI, and claiming around 25 mpg from the 5.2L and 5.8L Grand Cherokees! The engineers apparently messed up a digit in their calculations for the air these things want, which is why the crapola economy from the factory! << The 5.2L and 5.9L Magnums respond extremely well to improved breathing and exhaust. I'm not sure what it does to the fuel economy, but it can only help. The K&N set-up for them is good for 15-20 HP all by itself. That puts them much closer to their advertised output. My bone with the Magnums is the engineers didn't give them enough compression ratio to be competitive with Ford and Chevy's. Even the old 5.0L, which has been basically the same since '86 and is only rated at 215 HP, can easily run with them in the real world and gets much better mileage. I read a short review of the Durango (/Dakota) in the back of the newest Car & Driver mag. just last night. The Durango with the 5.9L is EPA rated at 12 and 16 MPG. The new 4.7L is EPA rated at 14 and 17 MPG. The 5.2L was just replaced by the 4.7L in the Durango/Dakota but, the 5.9L is still an available option. Car & Driver ran performance tests on both and said forget the 5.9L. The 4.7L has exactly the same performance 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile and it gets better mileage, of course. The performance is amazing considering the 1200cc less displacement. I have long term test results of a GC 5.9L Limited from, I think, Four Wheeler. They were very disappointed. The byline was did the GC 5.9L Ltd. deserve it's "Four Wheeler of the Year" win. The AMC head design on the Magnums has been surpassed...FSJ content. =A0=A0-- Michael Baxter, Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfal= se ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:33:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Timing A: Timing by ear is pretty easy (first make sure the wires are on the right way around! FO=3D 18436572) Just turn the timing advanced until it pings under load, then turn it back until the ping goes away. john on ORC writes: Where the heck is the plate or placard that you shine the timing light on on the 360? I don't see it. << The timing scale is cast into the timing cover around the crankshaft/balancer pulley at about the 11 o/clock position. You can clean it with a rag from underneath but, you'll be working in the blind. There is a window in the tri-angular alternator bracket which you look through to see the timing scale. Sight down the timing light like you would a hand gun and you'll be able to see the timing marks. =A0=A0-- Michael Baxter, Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfal= se ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:53:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Fuel Injection A: Holley makes a Pro-jection unit to fit, but there are a few others in the works that will be ready in a few months right Michael? =A0=A0Does anyone know where I would begin to look for a fuel injection system for a 360 V-8. I'm considering changing over but I'm not sure where to start> Any help would be great. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Joe Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfal= se ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:49:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: FWD: '88 FSJ for Sale White with burgundy leater int. 130,000 miles. New holley pro- jection, Edelbrock intake, valve guide seals, lifters, trailmaster sst shocks. Exhaust + cat. conv. replaced 1 1/2 years ago. Tires (laredo) have about 80% traed left. Entire steering link setup is new. new rear drums and rear axle bearings. rear main seal replaced 1 1/2 years ago. Hella fog and driving lights. Blaupunkt CD radio. A couple small rust spots, otherwise, body is straight and perfect. Interior is in excellent shape. receiver hitch. superwinch hubs. never taken off road. msd ignition w/new distributor. accel super coil and wires. custom 150 amp alternator. new 1000 cca battery. $6500.00 Illan Levy email ialevy-at-erols.com Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:39:42 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: drive a Texas J10 to Seattle anyone? PROBLEM: one 84 J10 sitting in Houston, TX. one each FSJ nut sitting in Snohomish, WA. how to get the two entities at least in the same time zone... :) (better, same state, even better, same county... even... oh, you get the idea... :) At 09:11 PM 9/15/99 -0700, Thunderbird wrote: >Maybe we could get a chain thing going...Might take 20-30 different people... Ok, here we go again... Brian found me a really nice J10 down in Houston... I need to get it up here to Seattle... but can't get the time off... It's about 2,448.8 miles... according to mapquest.com about 44 hours of driving... will consume about 203 gallons, or close to $300 worth of gas. I can't take much time off work right now because I'm short a Sys Admin and have no one to cover for me... Tim's got this really nice 84 J10 down there, but it ain't gonna last long... (If you know of a Solaris System administrator looking for work in Seattle, who happens to live in Houston, TX... have I got a deal for them! :) So, anybody up to a crazy adventure? :) Since it needs paint, and the 80 Honcho needs paint, but is in the same time zone (only 866 miles away and about 16 hrs drive...) I may end up going for the Honcho, even if it's not as in nice of shape... assuming it's still available too... :) Nothing like a challenge to stir up some excitement... This is almost as crazy as Mark Wallace driving his 81 Wagoneer from Boston to Seattle visiting with as many guys from the list as possible, then heading down to New Mexico before heading back up to Boston... ;) What's even crazier is I'm emailing a guy in Bellingham back and forth who is trying to get down here to Snohomish to look at my 77 Wagoneer so he can buy it, fix it and drive it to Ann Arbor, Michigan... And what's even crazier is I haven't told my wife about any of this yet. :) After 24 years of marriage I doubt she's gonna be terribly surprised... I just have to cover all the costs out of my "project" money and she'll be fine... ;) later, john - ------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Washington has laws prohibiting unsolicited commercial email, aka: SPAM. $500 per message. I report abuse. - -------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:10:00 -0700 From: Thunderbird Subject: Re: fsj: drive a Texas J10 to Seattle anyone? I think we can get it to OKC or Witcha Falls, maybe even to the panhandle if you can find people to get it beyond. john wrote: > PROBLEM: > one 84 J10 sitting in Houston, TX. > one each FSJ nut sitting in Snohomish, WA. > > how to get the two entities at least in the same time zone... :) > (better, same state, even better, same county... even... oh, you get > the idea... :) > > At 09:11 PM 9/15/99 -0700, Thunderbird wrote: > >Maybe we could get a chain thing going...Might take 20-30 different people... > > Ok, here we go again... Brian found me a really nice J10 down > in Houston... I need to get it up here to Seattle... but can't get the > time off... > > It's about 2,448.8 miles... according to mapquest.com about 44 hours of > driving... will consume about 203 gallons, or close to $300 worth of gas. > > I can't take much time off work right now because I'm short a Sys Admin > and have no one to cover for me... Tim's got this really nice 84 > J10 down there, but it ain't gonna last long... (If you know of a Solaris > System administrator looking for work in Seattle, who happens to live in > Houston, TX... have I got a deal for them! :) > > So, anybody up to a crazy adventure? :) > > Since it needs paint, and the 80 Honcho needs paint, but is in the same > time zone (only 866 miles away and about 16 hrs drive...) I may end up > going for the Honcho, even if it's not as in nice of shape... assuming > it's still available too... :) > > Nothing like a challenge to stir up some excitement... This is almost > as crazy as Mark Wallace driving his 81 Wagoneer from Boston to Seattle > visiting > with as many guys from the list as possible, then heading down to > New Mexico before heading back up to Boston... ;) > > What's even crazier is I'm emailing a guy in Bellingham back and forth > who is trying to get down here to Snohomish to look at my 77 Wagoneer so > he can buy it, fix it and drive it to Ann Arbor, Michigan... > > And what's even crazier is I haven't told my wife about any of this yet. :) > After 24 years of marriage I doubt she's gonna be terribly surprised... I > just have to cover all the costs out of my "project" money and she'll be > fine... ;) > > later, > john > ------------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Washington has laws prohibiting unsolicited commercial > email, aka: SPAM. $500 per message. I report abuse. > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Brian 78 J10-4 4bbl/360/TH400/PTQT/D44/D44 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8/Sport Take a look at what happened in Australia one year after citizens were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms, including semi-automatic .22 rifles and shotguns -- a program costing the government more than $500 million: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent; Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent; Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44 percent; In the state of Victoria, homicides-with ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #551 *************************