From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Nov 7 08:49:05 1999
From: fsj-digest <owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net>
fsj-digest Sunday, November 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 600
Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps
Brian Colucci <versicom-at-juno.com>
Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: fsj: VIN info
Re: fsj: VIN info
Re: fsj: VIN info
Re: fsj: VIN info
fsj: FS: cheap, leather rear seat
Re: fsj: Re: RJ's new motor
fsj: Re: VIN info
Re: fsj: VIN info
fsj: Re: Please forward to your PNW friends
fsj: forward from jeepsonline
Re: fsj: Re: RJ's new motor
fsj: Re: RJ's new motor
Re: fsj: VIN info
fsj: J10 engine thoughts...
Re: fsj: VIN info
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 09:33:12 -0800
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com (WA state nospam)>
Subject: Re: fsj: VIN info
>In a message dated 11/5/1999 4:21:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>cyberphoenix-at-uswest.net writes:
>How would you know if it was involved in a accident?
It's unlikely that you'll be able to tell from the VIN. The reason
is most states do not record the reason for retitling. You'd
look at the title and see a prior title number in Washington state,
that might give you a clue... But nothing is certain.
The insurance companies however may maintain a national register and
your insurance agent may be able to find out more than the DMV, at least
here in WA.
For grins if someone wanted to they could look at the VIN for
my little wagoneeer and see what they can find out. The history
of it goes like this: OE - AZ, 2nd owner the daughter of the OE,
moved it to WA, then I bought it, then I totalled it. So, at
this point it had an AZ title (or if it was purchased up here
and moved to AZ??? :) Then three titles in WA. I doubt that
that vin service or the dmv would show the total loss info.
Hard to say, my title says nothing about it... I've also bought,
fixed and sold another rig that was totalled, no indication on
any of the paperwork... WA may be a loose state, hard to tell...
The trick is examine the frame and body for obvious repairs... It
takes a sharp eye and good knowledge of a rig, and even then you'll
miss some of the time. :)
john
- -----------------------------------------------------
john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com
...don't leave life without Jesus, please!
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
- -----------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 09:36:39 -0800
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com (WA state nospam)>
Subject: Re: fsj: VIN info
the letter "i" may be skipped, certain letters are omitted in
most coding systems, "i", "o", and sometimes "l" are omitted because
they can be misread as ones or zeros... so he's probably right.
I can check my later documentation and verify, there is no reason
to doubt him on that count. Remember they may go by the date of mfr,
rather than model year, so 88 is fine, it's still a chrysler model,
and if it's got a light color and a sunroof I'd even consider swapping
my Honcho... :) An 88 and up is highly desireable in my mind... :)
john
At 10:34 AM 11/6/99 EST, Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 11/6/1999 12:15:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>john-at-wagoneers.com(WAstatenospam) writes:
>
>> is this from an 89? If so, most of the following is probably accurate...
>>
>> from my "brand new" from an ebay auction, 83 Service Specifications
>> book:
>>
>> 1 - united states mfring code
>> J - jeep
>> C - MPV (multipurpose vehicle)
>> N - 360 Cu in - 2V
>> J - Automatic, column, part or full time
>> 15 - 4dr wagoneer
>> U - gvr (in 83 this would have been N for a wag)
>> 9 - check digit
>> J - model year... D=83 e-84, f-85, g-86, h-87, i-88, j-89 ???
>> T - toledo
>> 075184 - sequential number
>
>Intesting. The guy says it's an '88. Thanks John.
>
>Ben
>
- -----------------------------------------------------
john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com
...don't leave life without Jesus, please!
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
- -----------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 13:02:23 EST
From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com
Subject: Re: fsj: VIN info
In a message dated 11/6/1999 9:33:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,
john-at-wagoneers.com(WAstatenospam) writes:
> I can check my later documentation and verify, there is no reason
> to doubt him on that count. Remember they may go by the date of mfr,
> rather than model year, so 88 is fine, it's still a chrysler model,
> and if it's got a light color and a sunroof I'd even consider swapping
> my Honcho... :) An 88 and up is highly desireable in my mind... :)
Just in case you're serious, here's the poop. It's metallic tan/light brown
with '78K two owner/one family miles (according to the used car dealer). The
sunroof wasn't working but is being fixed. He's gonna fix a snag in the
leading edge of the pass. side rear door and re-spray the cowl and upper
fenders. I didn't think the paint was bad myself. There are a few scratches
on the rear quarters that might or might not buff out. The interior is
extremely clean but missing the cargo area cover. All emissions appear to be
in order. The engine compartment appears to have been steam cleaned or
something and looks good. I found isolated but heavy deposits of grease/dirt
in out of the way places. Asking price is $6K.
Ben Williams
'71 Wagoneer
'78 F-250 4x4
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 10:48:04 -0800
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com (WA state nospam)>
Subject: Re: fsj: VIN info
sounds good... 78,000 miles only? wow.
nice color too... I bet it's beautiful.
john
At 01:02 PM 11/6/99 EST, Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 11/6/1999 9:33:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>john-at-wagoneers.com(WAstatenospam) writes:
>
>> I can check my later documentation and verify, there is no reason
>> to doubt him on that count. Remember they may go by the date of mfr,
>> rather than model year, so 88 is fine, it's still a chrysler model,
>> and if it's got a light color and a sunroof I'd even consider swapping
>> my Honcho... :) An 88 and up is highly desireable in my mind... :)
>
>Just in case you're serious, here's the poop. It's metallic tan/light brown
>with '78K two owner/one family miles (according to the used car dealer).
The
>sunroof wasn't working but is being fixed. He's gonna fix a snag in the
>leading edge of the pass. side rear door and re-spray the cowl and upper
>fenders. I didn't think the paint was bad myself. There are a few
scratches
>on the rear quarters that might or might not buff out. The interior is
>extremely clean but missing the cargo area cover. All emissions appear to
be
>in order. The engine compartment appears to have been steam cleaned or
>something and looks good. I found isolated but heavy deposits of
grease/dirt
>in out of the way places. Asking price is $6K.
>
>Ben Williams
>'71 Wagoneer
>'78 F-250 4x4
>
- -----------------------------------------------------
john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com
...don't leave life without Jesus, please!
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
- -----------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 11:58:01 -0800
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com (WA state nospam)>
Subject: fsj: FS: cheap, leather rear seat
For sale, cheap, nutmeg leather rear bench seat for Wagoneer.
make an offer... not able to ship... will probably trade
for anything I can use on my J10. :)
Also, will consider selling the stock J10 bench seat, minor
tears in fabric, slightly sagging on driver's side...
Or trade for misc. parts:
front bumper for J10
rf fender (wide trac)
weatherstripping for doors and window
rear step bumper in good shape
etc.
BTW, the J10's have ALWAYS been wide-tracs. :)
john
- -----------------------------------------------------
john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com
...don't leave life without Jesus, please!
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
- -----------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 99 15:39 EST
From: dan-at-black.org
Subject: Re: fsj: Re: RJ's new motor
- ---------
Brazzadog-at-aol.com said:
{- I think stock exhaust in '79 was 2.5" - slap a tape measure on your tailpipe
I did exactly that the other day... So BTW, if anybody's wondering what
the Grand Wags use without bothering to measure for themselves, it's
probably a 2" (yes, that's 2-nuthin'). My '88 definitely is, and pretty
sure the '85 is, too. Something I intend to fix on the '88 this spring
(and eventually on the '85, too). :)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember, folks: Street lights timed for 35mph are also timed for 70mph.
-- Jim Samuels
- -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org --------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:43:30 EST
From: OrigamiTB-at-aol.com
Subject: fsj: Re: VIN info
On Thu, 4 Nov, Ben <Brazzadog-at-aol.com> wrote:
> I wanted to try and see if it had a history or
> wrecks, flood damage, theft, or maybe a salvage title.
> That sort of stuff.
You can get all that (for a small fee, of course) at
http://www.dmvsearch.com/
++ Cornel Ormsby ++
Wagoneering in Las Vegas
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 16:51:38 EST
From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com
Subject: Re: fsj: VIN info
In a message dated 11/6/1999 10:44:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
john-at-wagoneers.com(WAstatenospam) writes:
> sounds good... 78,000 miles only? wow.
> nice color too... I bet it's beautiful.
It may be the best one I've ever seen. I try not to look though, so I
haven't seen too many. I really shouldn't be thinking about it at all. I've
got no use for two Wags and I'd be stupid to get rid of the one I've got.
It's hard to put it out of my mind though.
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 13:54:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair)
Subject: fsj: Re: Please forward to your PNW friends
I'm passing this around in case you guys didn't know about it. Jerry has
a Nice Cherokee too.
BACKROAD DRIVERS NORTHWEST
We are an e-mail list of Northwest folks who enjoy driving the country
roads of Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Western Montana; Alaska, British
Columbia and Alberta, too. We combine the pleasures of sightseeing with
a little history and geology, exploring ghost towns, museums, map
reading and photo opportunities.
We have no dues, no officers and no affiliation with any commercial
enterprises.
The intent of the list is to discuss backroad driving experiences in the
Northwest. Individual subscribers may submit backroading tips, tour
suggestions, trip reports and organize tours. One or more driving tours
have been organized by individual subscribers every month since October,
1998.
Our major interests are in backroads of "improved" status, mainly roads
where there is no or little risk of scratching paint. High ground
clearance vehicles, like SUV's or pickups, may be required on certain
roads and occasionally a road trip will be organized for more extreme
driving.
We think you will enjoy Backroad Drivers Northwest and we welcome you.
We are still a small list of about 125 subscribers so our posts are few
and we don't clog up your incoming mail box. Administration and editing
is handled by a real person list coordinator so you can subscribe, make
changes and un-subscribe at the same place.
Just say "I WANT TO SUBSCRIBE" and send your NAME, CITY & STATE and
E-MAIL ADDRESS to: brnwlist-at-premier1.net
Jerry Horn
BRNW List Coordinator
Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee model 18 4.2L/999 AT, My Homepage:
http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html My Photo Album:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 15:21:45 -0800
From: "R.J. Baynum" <cyberphoenix-at-uswest.net>
Subject: fsj: forward from jeepsonline
this was a answer, i got from a guy on the onelist..
i don't know if it's true or mot but maybe i would pass it on..
thanks!
R.J.
From: Mike Inich <webmaster-at-black-eagle.com>
Subject: Re: Re: fsj: VIN info
Goto www.classifieds2000.com then go into vehicles then at the lower right
corner
goto Carfax Lemon check.
This is what your vin showed, you need to pay for a more detailed report.
Hope this helps
Mike
VIN: 1JCNJ15U9JT075184
Good News! No Manufacturer Buyback (Lemon) records found.*
Year: 1988
Manuf.: Jeep
Model: Wagoneer Grand Wagon
Body: 4D Sp Ut Utility
IMPORTANT - While running this Lemon Check, Carfax
identified 4 vehicle history records about this 1988 Jeep
Wagoneer Grand Wagon
Order the full Carfax Vehicle History Report to learn the details about
these 4 record(s) and rule out costly problems on this and other cars:
Salvaged or totaled? Not yet checked
Odometer fraud? Not yet checked
Flood damaged? Not yet checked
Major accident damage? Not yet checked
Engine: 360 CID V8 2bbl
Country: United States
"R.J. Baynum" wrote:
> From: "R.J. Baynum" <cyberphoenix-at-uswest.net>
>
> How would you know if it was involved in a accident?
>
> confused?
>
> R.J. Baynum
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 21:43:26 -0800
From: "R.J. Baynum" <cyberphoenix-at-uswest.net>
Subject: Re: fsj: Re: RJ's new motor
I have the 310 gears.. the place I got the quote was from Motor works , in
Spokane wa.
The radiator, I got stock, from American Radiator, it's 3 core, for about
150.00 new
I would love the specs on that Cam! a special Cam, with higher lift?
should I over bore a bit?
Thanks!!
Now we are getting some where..
I hope the transfer case and rear can handle a 401!
the rear is used..just replaced.. from a junk yard.
specs would be good!
so i can print it out , and give it to the shop!
Thanks!!!
R.J.
the Beginner...
but learning!
James Blair wrote:
>
> A: I'm a little tired, so take what I say with a grain of salt! Someone
> wants Elmo's old axle, so I'm staying up til 8 to talk to him.
>
> RJ wrote:
> Well the exhaust is stock, what ever that is.. so it's better with the
> 2v?
>
> A: Don't be a lazy butt! Go measure it! <G>
>
> with or with out the edelbrock manifold?
>
> A: The Edelbrock kit will give you more power at about the same gas
> mileage.
>
> I want it to breath easy, and have a lot of power when I need it, esp ,
> going up and down mountains with a heavy trailer, for about 2,500
> miles.. one-way...
>
> A: Do you have 2.72 or 3.31 gears? (I'm putting 3.31s in Elmo today)
>
> Also My springs ( leaf) are a bit saggy.. worn out I guess.. Since I
> will be hauling a trailer, will I need those fixed? What is the Safety
> versus Ride factor here?
>
> A: I'm taking apart the '84 GW's rear spring pack to add the main leaf
> to mine while I'm axle swapping. Want the rest? Wag sag leads to wag
> sway. Mine are just flat when I pull, and I get a little sway.
>
> I just got a new Radiator, not to long ago, but seeing it's a new
> engine, with maybe a different manifold, I don't know if I need it
> changed..
>
> A: Did you get a 3 core? If so, they you'll be all right as long as it's
> Modine or other good brand. Lot's of discussion last summer about
> Mexi-rads that are 1/2 solder and 1/2 soldered! I have a good V8 2 core
> rad (factory '84) that I've had pressure and flow tested for $50 obo if
> anyone is interested. Or maybe swap for something I need? (like someone
> to crawl under and help me do the rear main seal? Since that Honda fell
> on me, I get a very uneasy feeling being under engines now. The rear end
> doesn't bug me though?!? Weird!)
>
> Will I need spacers too for the Carb?
> What is the best set up?
> still confused..
> R.J.
>
> A: If you can afford it, I'd do the 401 with Edelbrock, or go all the
> way and put a Holley 4di on a built 360 (I have the specs for an EFI
> grind cam on my other handle carnuck2)
>
> I wonder what the scoop is on having YOUR engine built in Canada? Most
> of the good shops I know are up there. Down here, Waterhouse is bad news
> (we sold 3 engines, and 2 were returned as unfit to install!)
>
> Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee model 18 4.2L/999 AT, My Homepage:
> http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html My Photo Album:
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 22:06:08 -0800
From: "R.J. Baynum" <cyberphoenix-at-uswest.net>
Subject: fsj: Re: RJ's new motor
Yes i do.. Grin...
She id the woman I am going to maybe live with, then.. who knows.. Grin?
she is the one in Huntsville Al. On the 19th of Nov. to the Dec 1st, flying to
seattle then to nashville Tn, spend first night there, then on to Huntsville,
come back to Nashville two days early , to do the Tourist thing with lots of
pics, . plus, this event, my instructor for my photojournalism class, wants me
to do my 10 Pic story assignment on us, ( the internet dating theme) so
hopefully I will get a A, in that class! she owns her own studio, does
Photography, like weddings and portraits, has a big house, secure, very smart,
has a MBA, and a Masters in science. Top it all off we have it seems EVERYTHING
in COMMON! We think alike too! Too Weird huh?
this could . really .. really.. REALLY the one!!!!
Thanks for the E mail!
I will have her subscribe too,
is that okay? she is almost a Jeep owner.. grin..
Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/5/1999 8:11:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> cyberphoenix-at-uswest.net writes:
>
> > Well the exhaust is stock, what ever that is.. so it's better with the 2v?
> > with or with out the edelbock manifold? I want it to breath easy, and have
> a
> > lot
> > of power when I need it, esp , going up and down mountains with a heavy
> > trailer,
> > for about 2,500 miles.. one-way...
>
> I think stock exhaust in '79 was 2.5" - slap a tape measure on your tailpipe.
> If it's that big then it's probably adequate for the 4v. Don't bother
> putting the 2v on an Edelbrock intake - it's a waste of a good intake and may
> not work as well as the stock 2v intake. Sounds like the 4v carb and intake
> combo is the answer for these towing duties.
>
> > Also My springs ( leaf) are a bit saggy.. worn out I guess..
> > Since I will be hauling a trailer, will I need those fixed? What is the
> > Safety
> > versus Ride factor here?
>
> Depends on how bad they sag. You know how your rig handles better than
> anybody. Is it unpredictable in it's handling? A trailer will make that
> worse. If not then just keep the trailer tongue weight within trailer specs
> and you should be fine as long as the rear springs don't object too much.
> Find out what max tongue weight is on the trailer you plan to use and then
> put that much weight in the back of the rig to see how it sits. The key to
> pulling a trailer is to have enough tongue weight without having too much and
> to keep the load balanced from side to side. Even tire pressure is important
> too. Also don't try to drive as fast as normal - especially if it's a
> U-haul. They are built for durability not grace. Take it slow and relaxed
> rather than fast and nervous.
>
> > I just got a new Radiator, not to long ago, but seeing it's a new engine,
> > with
> > maybe a different manifold, I don't know if I need it changed.
>
> The radiator will be fine with any manifold you choose.
>
> > Will I need spacers too for the Carb?
>
> If you get Edelbrock manifold and carb together it will be a good reliable
> combo that goes together easily. If you do it yourself, call Summit and let
> them help you. Tell them you want everything you need to complete the
> installation. The latest Jp magazine has an article about the little details
> that make the Edelbrock fit nicely on a '79 Cherokee. The list includes fuel
> inlet banjo fitting (PN 8089), and an adapter for the stock throttle bracket
> (no PN given). If you're gonna let the mechanic do it, then let it be his
> problem.
>
> > What is the best set up?
>
> The jury may be out on that one for a long time. <G>
>
> > still confused..
>
> Me too. : )
>
> By the way, do you know somebody named "cuddlykat"? <G>
>
> Ben Williams
> '71 Wagoneer
> '78 F-250 4x4
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 22:52:44 -0800
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com (WA state nospam)>
Subject: Re: fsj: VIN info
6K for a low mileage 88 sounds pretty decent... but how
many rigs do we really need? (so asks the guy with 4 vehicles
in his driveway... :) I can understand your wanting to keep your
vintage FSJ, but tell ya what, that 88 would be so much nicer... tighter
turning radius, quieter, nicer ride, leather seats with headrests, moonroof...
tempt, tempt, tempt... :)
john
At 04:51 PM 11/6/99 EST, Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 11/6/1999 10:44:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>john-at-wagoneers.com(WAstatenospam) writes:
>
>> sounds good... 78,000 miles only? wow.
>> nice color too... I bet it's beautiful.
>
>It may be the best one I've ever seen. I try not to look though, so I
>haven't seen too many. I really shouldn't be thinking about it at all.
I've
>got no use for two Wags and I'd be stupid to get rid of the one I've got.
>It's hard to put it out of my mind though.
>
>Ben
>
- -----------------------------------------------------
john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com
...don't leave life without Jesus, please!
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
- -----------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 23:07:06 -0800
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com (WA state nospam)>
Subject: fsj: J10 engine thoughts...
a couple quick thoughts before I call it a night...
If I keep the 360 in my J10 I'm trying to decide which way to go...
- - edelebrock performer cam/manifold and 1406, OR the pro-jection...
- - rebuild the 2v carb
- - use a 2v-4v adapter and mount a 1406 on it?
OR
do they have a TBI for a 2v manifold?
The motor is tight, and fresh, no leaks... If I sold it I'd pay off
what I owe on it and have enough money to install the 4.0L engine
(needs new injectors), aw4 and either use my existing 208, not likely
since it's probably 23 spline, or use my NP231, as it's 21 spline... or
get an NV242...
Lots of work either way... keeping the 360 may be the best thing overall...
Since this thing has .030 pistons, it doesn't seem to have as much power
as it should... would a 4v help that? I guess I should try a different
carb... Wes gave me back the one that Old Blue had... :) I recognized it
from the bent choke plates... NOW I know how to better adjust the choke...
I don't know where my brain was when I had that carb... :)
Just some random thoughts... daydreaming really...
also thinking about how hard it is to get the dipstick out... :(
If I do the cam thing I'm just gonna take it down to Jim Startups and pay
to have it all done... The thought of opening up a perfect engine disturbs
me... I know I'd screw something up... :)
I went down to Al's (who has been bought out by Shucks...) and got a
replacement
alternator, however, they didn't have the same one so I paid for an upgrade
to the "NASCAR" version, same amperage, 63A, but all new parts inside...
So as soon as my wife gets home I'll be able to redo the electrical setup
on the J10 and get it registered... I think I like James Blair idea of
eliminating the amp gauge... That is a really bad idea that most US car
makers went away from in the early 70's... :) I'll install a volt meter
rather... :)
well, better call it a night... tired... long day...
later,
john
- -----------------------------------------------------
john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com
...don't leave life without Jesus, please!
Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
- -----------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 02:27:25 EST
From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com
Subject: Re: fsj: VIN info
In a message dated 11/6/1999 10:54:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
john-at-wagoneers.com(WAstatenospam) writes:
> 6K for a low mileage 88 sounds pretty decent... but how
> many rigs do we really need? (so asks the guy with 4 vehicles
> in his driveway... :) I can understand your wanting to keep your
> vintage FSJ, but tell ya what, that 88 would be so much nicer... tighter
> turning radius, quieter, nicer ride, leather seats with headrests,
moonroof..
> .
>
> tempt, tempt, tempt... :)
LOL - yer killin' me John. Twist the knife a little more. <g> I've got a
tighter turning radius sitting in the garage ('74 Dana 44 w/discs) and seats
can be swapped. As for the rest, well... good point. Fortunately, I don't
think I could scrape together $6K. My wife is helping any either. The day I
told her about it she looked me square in the eye and said "so... go buy
it". Then she started laughing. The oughta be a law against tormenting
addicts.
Ben Williams
'71 Wagoneer
'78 F-250 4x4
------------------------------
End of fsj-digest V1 #600
*************************