From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jan 28 17:22:02 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, January 28 2000 Volume 01 : Number 702 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! fsj: re: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! Re: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! fsj: Re: J-series repair manual RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! fsj: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! fsj: Re: Factory Automanuals, dealer in all auto manuals & literature at great discount prices! RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! Re: fsj: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! fsj: Pump Me Up FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:25:34 -0500 From: "Bednarik, Nathan" Subject: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! Last night I was driving home from work and the 360 just shut down. Shocked, I pulled over to troubleshoot. The engine has about 5K on it with a new flowmaster and (cheep) cat which were installed a couple thousand miles back. As soon as I got out I could see this red glow coming from the bottom side of the jeep. As I slowing crept down I was amazed at what I saw. The cat was a orange/red glowing color. It looked as if at any second it was going to liquefy it was so hot. Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed. I didn't worry much about what else it could have damaged. I figured I'd let it cool and come back later to remove the exhaust in order to get it home to the shop. So, I did just that. A few hours later I went back and proceeded to remove the muffler and cat. After removing everything I attempted to start the jeep. It wouldn't start!! It turned over, but had no spark. I've never even imagined what the effects on an engine would be if it couldn't get rid of it's exhaust. Can anyone break this down for me. Thanks a lot. Nate San Diego, CA '85 CJ-7/AMC 360 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:57:42 -0600 From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: re: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! "Bednarik, Nathan" said: > Last night I was driving home from work and the 360 just shut down. > Shocked, I pulled over to troubleshoot. The engine has about 5K on it with > a new flowmaster and (cheep) cat which were installed a couple thousand > miles back. As soon as I got out I could see this red glow coming from the > bottom side of the jeep. As I slowing crept down I was amazed at what I > saw. The cat was a orange/red glowing color. It looked as if at any second > it was going to liquefy it was so hot. Needless to say, I was extremely > disappointed. I didn't worry much about what else it could have damaged. I > figured I'd let it cool and come back later to remove the exhaust in order > to get it home to the shop. So, I did just that. A few hours later I went > back and proceeded to remove the muffler and cat. After removing everything > I attempted to start the jeep. It wouldn't start!! It turned over, but had > no spark. I've never even imagined what the effects on an engine would be > if it couldn't get rid of it's exhaust. Can anyone break this down for me. > Thanks a lot. Sorry, don't know exactly what's wrong (unless something is clogged higher up... how's your exhaust manifold? Could some of that have broken off, clogged the cat and made it glow, and clogged higher up as well?), but I've had the glowing exhaust before... Mine was the muffler, though, and it was because the cat had flushed itself through the muffler. (We replaced the muffler. ;) ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:04:16 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! I've been happy with the high flow/high perf catalytic converters I've bought from both Summit and JC Whitney (same unit!). When your converter clogged up the exhaust had to go somewhere.. I wonder if it ruined your carb? john On Fri, 28 Jan 2000, Bednarik, Nathan wrote: >-->Last night I was driving home from work and the 360 just shut down. >-->Shocked, I pulled over to troubleshoot. The engine has about 5K on it with >-->a new flowmaster and (cheep) cat which were installed a couple thousand >-->miles back. As soon as I got out I could see this red glow coming from the >-->bottom side of the jeep. As I slowing crept down I was amazed at what I >-->saw. The cat was a orange/red glowing color. It looked as if at any second >-->it was going to liquefy it was so hot. Needless to say, I was extremely >-->disappointed. I didn't worry much about what else it could have damaged. I >-->figured I'd let it cool and come back later to remove the exhaust in order >-->to get it home to the shop. So, I did just that. A few hours later I went >-->back and proceeded to remove the muffler and cat. After removing everything >-->I attempted to start the jeep. It wouldn't start!! It turned over, but had >-->no spark. I've never even imagined what the effects on an engine would be >-->if it couldn't get rid of it's exhaust. Can anyone break this down for me. >-->Thanks a lot. >--> >-->Nate >-->San Diego, CA >-->'85 CJ-7/AMC 360 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:34:05 -0500 From: "Bednarik, Nathan" Subject: RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! I honestly haven't had a chance to take a good look at it. It was late and cold out, plus I just wasn't in the mood to deal with it. I plan to get a high flow cat but think this one should've lasted me a little longer than 2 months. The only thing that could have clogged it would have been the carb running way to rich, right? Which I know was happening but it couldn't have been that bad because I just passed CA smog just last month. The thing only cost about $40. BTW, I still haven't put the Edlebrock 1406 on that I bought from John a while back (haven't had time). The carb on now is still a stock Motocraft 2100. I've never really been happy with it but it was getting me by for the time being. So is it possible the carb is all screwed up? There was a very strong smell of gas when turning it over. I thought maybe I just flooded it, but there was no chance on it igniting. Even after letting it sit. Could it have ruined the ingnition some how. That's what the exhaust shop thinks. That or the carb. I'm at a loss. Nate > ---------- > From: john[SMTP:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] > Reply To: john > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 2:04 PM > To: Bednarik, Nathan > Cc: 'fsj-at-digest.net'; 'fsj-list-at-moab.off-road.com'; > 'swbjeep-digest-at-moab.off-road.com'; 'swbjeep-at-moab.off-road.com' > Subject: Re: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! > > > I've been happy with the high flow/high perf catalytic converters > I've bought from both Summit and JC Whitney (same unit!). > > When your converter clogged up the exhaust had to go somewhere.. > I wonder if it ruined your carb? > > john > > > On Fri, 28 Jan 2000, Bednarik, Nathan wrote: > > >-->Last night I was driving home from work and the 360 just shut down. > >-->Shocked, I pulled over to troubleshoot. The engine has about 5K on it > with > >-->a new flowmaster and (cheep) cat which were installed a couple > thousand > >-->miles back. As soon as I got out I could see this red glow coming > from the > >-->bottom side of the jeep. As I slowing crept down I was amazed at what > I > >-->saw. The cat was a orange/red glowing color. It looked as if at any > second > >-->it was going to liquefy it was so hot. Needless to say, I was > extremely > >-->disappointed. I didn't worry much about what else it could have > damaged. I > >-->figured I'd let it cool and come back later to remove the exhaust in > order > >-->to get it home to the shop. So, I did just that. A few hours later I > went > >-->back and proceeded to remove the muffler and cat. After removing > everything > >-->I attempted to start the jeep. It wouldn't start!! It turned over, > but had > >-->no spark. I've never even imagined what the effects on an engine > would be > >-->if it couldn't get rid of it's exhaust. Can anyone break this down > for me. > >-->Thanks a lot. > >--> > >-->Nate > >-->San Diego, CA > >-->'85 CJ-7/AMC 360 > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com > don't leave life without Jesus, please... > Snohomish, Washington USA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:33:31 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: J-series repair manual In a message dated 1/28/2000 9:27:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:37:04 -0800 (PST) > From: john > > On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Rob Epp wrote: > > >-->Service Manual - J-Series Vehicles - for J-100 series > >--> and J-2000 and J-3000 series Pickup and Stake Platform > >--> Reprinted 7-77 SM-1042 AMC Jeep > >-->Corporation. > > >-->Hi John.I have an '87 J10 Pioneer pickup,and i'm looking for an AMC > >-->repair manual for it.I can order a Haynes version,but would much rather > >-->have an AMC version.Can you please let me know if this is the right > >-->book.Thanks Rob. > > it'll cover 70's vintage stuff, but won't cover your trans, maybe the > motor stuff will be close... but thinking about it, this is really > the 60's vintage stuff, if memory serves me correctly.. > > Your 87 has stuff in it that the manual won't discuss, tranny, xfr case, > heat/ac, cruise, and so on... if the price is right it'll be better > by far than a Haynes... the haynes manual isn't very good... > > try to find a factory manual somewhere... If you try to use SM-1042 for an '87, it would be about like having no manual at all. It covers late 60's era FSJs with 232, 327, and 350 engines. 1970 would be the last year of practical application for this manual. About the only thing in SM-1042 that would apply to an '87 would be maybe the rear brakes. For an '87, I would have to recommend Haynes over SM -1042. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:08:24 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! I've heard something about a power valve in those carbs, could be wrong, but if it experiences a backfire it's supposed to ruin it... not sure what the symptom would be... and it may have been a holley... I dunno... The cat should have a year warranty, I believe that's a federal thing, emissions items have a special warranty, check your paperwork... john On Fri, 28 Jan 2000, Bednarik, Nathan wrote: >-->I honestly haven't had a chance to take a good look at it. It was late and >-->cold out, plus I just wasn't in the mood to deal with it. I plan to get a >-->high flow cat but think this one should've lasted me a little longer than 2 >-->months. The only thing that could have clogged it would have been the carb >-->running way to rich, right? Which I know was happening but it couldn't have >-->been that bad because I just passed CA smog just last month. The thing only >-->cost about $40. BTW, I still haven't put the Edlebrock 1406 on that I >-->bought from John a while back (haven't had time). The carb on now is still >-->a stock Motocraft 2100. I've never really been happy with it but it was >-->getting me by for the time being. So is it possible the carb is all screwed >-->up? There was a very strong smell of gas when turning it over. I thought >-->maybe I just flooded it, but there was no chance on it igniting. Even after >-->letting it sit. Could it have ruined the ingnition some how. That's what >-->the exhaust shop thinks. That or the carb. I'm at a loss. >--> >-->Nate >--> >--> >-->> ---------- >-->> From: john[SMTP:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] >-->> Reply To: john >-->> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 2:04 PM >-->> To: Bednarik, Nathan >-->> Cc: 'fsj-at-digest.net'; 'fsj-list-at-moab.off-road.com'; >-->> 'swbjeep-digest-at-moab.off-road.com'; 'swbjeep-at-moab.off-road.com' >-->> Subject: Re: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! >-->> >-->> >-->> I've been happy with the high flow/high perf catalytic converters >-->> I've bought from both Summit and JC Whitney (same unit!). >-->> >-->> When your converter clogged up the exhaust had to go somewhere.. >-->> I wonder if it ruined your carb? >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> On Fri, 28 Jan 2000, Bednarik, Nathan wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Last night I was driving home from work and the 360 just shut down. >-->> >-->Shocked, I pulled over to troubleshoot. The engine has about 5K on it >-->> with >-->> >-->a new flowmaster and (cheep) cat which were installed a couple >-->> thousand >-->> >-->miles back. As soon as I got out I could see this red glow coming >-->> from the >-->> >-->bottom side of the jeep. As I slowing crept down I was amazed at what >-->> I >-->> >-->saw. The cat was a orange/red glowing color. It looked as if at any >-->> second >-->> >-->it was going to liquefy it was so hot. Needless to say, I was >-->> extremely >-->> >-->disappointed. I didn't worry much about what else it could have >-->> damaged. I >-->> >-->figured I'd let it cool and come back later to remove the exhaust in >-->> order >-->> >-->to get it home to the shop. So, I did just that. A few hours later I >-->> went >-->> >-->back and proceeded to remove the muffler and cat. After removing >-->> everything >-->> >-->I attempted to start the jeep. It wouldn't start!! It turned over, >-->> but had >-->> >-->no spark. I've never even imagined what the effects on an engine >-->> would be >-->> >-->if it couldn't get rid of it's exhaust. Can anyone break this down >-->> for me. >-->> >-->Thanks a lot. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Nate >-->> >-->San Diego, CA >-->> >-->'85 CJ-7/AMC 360 >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com >-->> don't leave life without Jesus, please... >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:14:59 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! A: By any chance, could the converter be backwards? They'll plug up fast if they are! I'd check the spark first. It could be coincidentally dead at the same time. The backed up carbon could be holding the exhaust valves open, which will drop the compression (I've had a few motors with that problem, including my 4.2L when I first got it.) Nathan wrote: I honestly haven't had a chance to take a good look at it. It was late and cold out, plus I just wasn't in the mood to deal with it. I plan to get a high flow cat but think this one should've lasted me a little longer than 2 months. The only thing that could have clogged it would have been the carb running way to rich, right? Which I know was happening but it couldn't have been that bad because I just passed CA smog just last month. The thing only cost about $40. BTW, I still haven't put the Edlebrock 1406 on that I bought from John a while back (haven't had time). The carb on now is still a stock Motocraft 2100. I've never really been happy with it but it was getting me by for the time being. So is it possible the carb is all screwed up? There was a very strong smell of gas when turning it over. I thought maybe I just flooded it, but there was no chance on it igniting. Even after letting it sit. Could it have ruined the ingnition some how. That's what the exhaust shop thinks. That or the carb. I'm at a loss. Nate john wrote: I've been happy with the high flow/high perf catalytic converters I've bought from both Summit and JC Whitney (same unit!). When your converter clogged up the exhaust had to go somewhere.. I wonder if it ruined your carb? john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:38:11 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! I went to the dump this morning (noon actually) and Elmo had to move a city bus today on icy streets because it was stuck on the corner to get out of my street. (double down hill with a 90 degree corner at the bottom. Everybody cheered as I just putt, putted away pushing the bus up the hill, out of the icy corner. I forgot my camera, because I was in a hurry to get to the dump! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:42:42 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: Factory Automanuals, dealer in all auto manuals & literature at great discount prices! I got this off the AMC-list. I already emailed them about Jeep manuals for '80 up FSJs. http://www.factoryautomanuals.com/ I called dyement today, and they are out of '83 Jeep manuals, but I'm getting a wiring diagram, and manual for an '82 and for an Eagle from another source. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:16:56 -0500 From: "Bednarik, Nathan" Subject: RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! I'm sure the cat is not backwards. I spoke with a guy at a local carb shop. He said the reason it wont start is that it is too rich and cant burn all the fuel that's being pumped into the carb, which then caused the cat to overheat trying to burn the excess fuel...?? I asked him how many times he's seen it happen with his experience. He said none, but that it could happen.....how the heck can the carb just change it's mixture all by itself!?!? I haven't touched the mixture adjustment since I got it smogged a month ago. Since then I've taken it on two really long trips (500+ miles) with no problems. I'll let you guys now what I figure out this weekend. I may have to have it towed home. Thanks for the suggestions. > ---------- > From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net[SMTP:Carnuck-at-webtv.net] > Reply To: Carnuck-at-webtv.net > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 6:14 PM > To: NBednarik-at-mobilnet.gte.com; fsj-at-digest.net; > fsj-list-at-moab.off-road.com > Subject: RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! > > A: By any chance, could the converter be backwards? They'll plug up fast > if they are! I'd check the spark first. It could be coincidentally dead > at the same time. The backed up carbon could be holding the exhaust > valves open, which will drop the compression (I've had a few motors with > that problem, including my 4.2L when I first got it.) > > Nathan wrote: > I honestly haven't had a chance to take a good look at it. It was late > and cold out, plus I just wasn't in the mood to deal with it. I plan to > get a high flow cat but think this one should've lasted me a little > longer than 2 months. The only thing that could have clogged it would > have been the carb running way to rich, right? Which I know was > happening but it couldn't have been that bad because I just passed CA > smog just last month. The thing only cost about $40. BTW, I still > haven't put the Edlebrock 1406 on that I bought from John a while back > (haven't had time). The carb on now is still a stock Motocraft 2100. > I've never really been happy with it but it was getting me by for the > time being. So is it possible the carb is all screwed up? There was a > very strong smell of gas when turning it over. I thought maybe I just > flooded it, but there was no chance on it igniting. Even after letting > it sit. Could it have ruined the ingnition some how. That's what the > exhaust shop thinks. That or the carb. I'm at a loss. > Nate > > john wrote: > I've been happy with the high flow/high perf catalytic converters I've > bought from both Summit and JC Whitney (same unit!). > When your converter clogged up the exhaust had to go somewhere.. I > wonder if it ruined your carb? > john > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false > ================================= > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:42:14 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! very cool. yeah, Elmo... john On Fri, 28 Jan 2000, James Blair wrote: >-->I went to the dump this morning (noon actually) and Elmo had to move a >-->city bus today on icy streets because it was stuck on the corner to get >-->out of my street. (double down hill with a 90 degree corner at the >-->bottom. Everybody cheered as I just putt, putted away pushing the bus up >-->the hill, out of the icy corner. I forgot my camera, because I was in a >-->hurry to get to the dump! >--> >-->~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr >-->http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: >-->http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false >-->================================= >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:28:34 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Pump Me Up Brazzadog-at-aol.com writes: >> I was told big block Chevy, but I scrounged one and it seems way too large to be useful. I think a saw a pic of a small block Chevy block off= plate somewhere and it looked much closer. << Yes, Small-block Chevy is what works with minor mods. >> Carburated fuel pressures should be 3 psi to 5.5 psi. I believe Michael Baxter has said it will run fine on 1 or 2 psi. A cheap $20 fuel= pressure regulator (JC Whitney if not locally) and a fuel pressure gauge (both mounted as close to the carb as possible) would be a good idea. I have found that low fuel pressures work fine and don't seem to make vapor= lock any more of a problem. << Of course, it doesn't hurt to run as much fuel pressure as your needle and seat will allow as a hedge against vapor lock. Or even better...If I had mine to do over again, I would run a 15 PSI pump and then regulate do= wn what's left of the pump pressure up front to 3-3.5 PSI. Regulator as clos= e to the carb. as possible as Ben mentioned and downstream of the filter/return line. I'd try to splice the regulator into the metal line right in front of the carb. using flare fittings if possible. As it is, I= run a 7 PSI pump which probably is around 3.5-4 PSI up front with the losses enroute and the return line. If I had to stick my neck out, I would say the average 2100/2150/4300/4350 needle and seat can handle 7 PSI. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 28-Jan-2000 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #702 *************************