From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Feb 7 09:49:12 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, February 7 2000 Volume 01 : Number 716 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: New member of this list! With no oil pressure. Re: fsj: New member of this list! With no oil pressure. Re: fsj: Re: Berry, Bradley- Brakes Re: fsj: OK, I'm starting to get p*ssed. Re: fsj: faith tested Re: fsj: New member of this list! With no oil pressure. fsj: Re: Transfer case removal! Im skeered! Re: fsj: OK, I'm starting to get fsj: Speaking of California (I passed the smo fsj: Re: 4x4 Creed fsj: re: power steering fluid leak Re: fsj: bed lifted... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:38:41 -0700 From: "evanlee" Subject: fsj: New member of this list! With no oil pressure. Howdy all! After all the fooferaw on one of the other lists I decided to follow someones advise and check into other FSJ lists, so here I am! I recognize some folks from the "other" list, good to see you! Well, here was todays adventure. My wife was coming back from the grocery store today, and had what appears to be a complete loss of oil pressure in the '69 Wagoneer. Luckily she drove only about a mile, and pulled into the driveway with lifters clattering, and shut it down. I reconnected :-) the oil pressure sender, and sure enough, the oil light stays on! Anyhow, this one has the 350 Buick motor, and I have already picked up the oil pump rebuild kit, but I have never had a vehicle lose pressure like this. The only thing I can think of is if the oil pump shaft broke, or if the drive gear started spinning on the shaft, or something like that. What's worse is that today is the day I traded off my '69 Ford f-250 for a 24 foot travel trailer, and the '69 Wagoneer is our tow vehicle! We are an all FSJ family for the first time, but this was a heck of a day for the best one to crap out! The '66 Super Wagoneer is running, but still needs some work, the '69 used to be called "Ole' Reliable" (until today) and we drove it the most, and the '73 has been pretty reliable since I got it running a few months back. Cary Nickel Bullhead City, Arizona '66 Super Wagoneer '69 Wagoneer '73 Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:01:29 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: New member of this list! With no oil pressure. A: My first inclination would be to see if the oil pressure is still down overnight. If it pops up again, then I'd look into the timing gear disintegration common to GM vehicles. The bits plug up the oil pump screen, effectively blocking all oil flow. You will have to change your sig file now too! Cary Nickel wrote: Howdy all! After all the fooferaw on one of the other lists I decided to follow someones advise and check into other FSJ lists, so here I am! I recognize some folks from the "other" list, good to see you! Well, here was todays adventure. My wife was coming back from the grocery store today, and had what appears to be a complete loss of oil pressure in the '69 Wagoneer. Luckily she drove only about a mile, and pulled into the driveway with lifters clattering, and shut it down. I reconnected :-) the oil pressure sender, and sure enough, the oil light stays on! Anyhow, this one has the 350 Buick motor, and I have already picked up the oil pump rebuild kit, but I have never had a vehicle lose pressure like this. The only thing I can think of is if the oil pump shaft broke, or if the drive gear started spinning on the shaft, or something like that. What's worse is that today is the day I traded off my '69 Ford f-250 for a 24 foot travel trailer, and the '69 Wagoneer is our tow vehicle! We are an all FSJ family for the first time, but this was a heck of a day for the best one to crap out! The '66 Super Wagoneer is running, but still needs some work, the '69 used to be called "Ole' Reliable" (until today) and we drove it the most, and the '73 has been pretty reliable since I got it running a few months back. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:05:05 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Berry, Bradley- Brakes A: I wish I still had the tool that cuts the rotors on the vehicle still. It was for Hondas, GMs and other vehicles that were difficult to remove and do. Brad wrote: So the first question is, should I yank the rotors back off and turn them, or is this going to be acceptable as is? Robert wrote: If they're scored, get them cut (IMHO). They'll work with the grooves (my GW is that way now), but it's not optimal. I'll be replacing the rotor and the pads as soon as I get the opportunity. B: >Given that I have nasty brake fluid, and bleed screws packed with rust, I'm worried about the calipers. But they don't leak, (At least they didn't until I worked on them :-) they don't pull, they wore evenly, and I never had any reason to think there is a problem. Is there any reason I NEED to pull these and replace/clean them? R: >They are $13/each at Autozone. They're not going to get any better, and they can freeze up slowly, so even though they may work now, they can be freezing up as we speak and lock up at the least-convenient moment. If you've already got them unbolted, and are changing the pads, you may as well replace them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:12:02 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: OK, I'm starting to get p*ssed. A: Rob, did you do the ammeter bypass yet? That sounds like mine. I put the wire direct from the alt + to the battery +, and the problem went away (my headlights flickered like a police car when it got real bad.) The noise would have to be found where it's coming from to figure out what it is. I can think of a dozen without trying! PS: Engine timing too far advanced will cause a hot start actup like that too. 3 degrees can make a HUGE difference on an AMC V8! Rob Harrison wrote: I've been having warm starting problems, I mean nothing at start up when warm. I replaced the starter thaen found that the starter motor was a lil nuclear shell waiting to ignite any gas fumes and after replacing that I'm still having abit of trouble. After all has been replaced, The ammometer goes way right when I can get it started - sounds as if the battery was dying (But its not). What's next on the list? Is it the Alternater? This is driving me batty and I can't afford emotionally to deal with these constant problems!! I have rebuilt the engine (Twice now), replaced the cat, replaced the starter, replaced the starter switch and it still doesn't end - It's like my marriage right now. Whew, sorry for the rant but I'm getting drained. can any one help? Also, if any one can guess, i'm hearing a "chick,Chick,chick" when I drive. It's gotta be in the axles cuz I fixed the brakes not too long ago. Bearings maybe? Sorry for the ranting guys and gals, I'm going through a lot of *shit right now and really need my SJ to work for me. Let me know where I should start (again) with my rig. Rob Harrison 85 Grand Wagoneer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:15:41 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: faith tested A: It could be in the bent wires at the gate, or the plugin underneath. I unplugged all that to ensure no probs. Mike wrote: I've been thru the tailgate before. I'd already cut out the safety switch circuit, & I was too lazy to re-connect the defroster. I just didn't have enough light or tools (voltmeter) last night to get the job done. I was just lucky that a bump fixed it, or it would have been a chilly ride home. MIke S. The mechanizms & guides are in decent shape too. I figure it's a intermittant power connection that will require some attention whenever I can get around to it. At 10:20 AM 2/6/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: A: I guess you didn't try the slap the tailgat on the left side trick did you? Mike wrote: Since my truck's tranny has decided to lay down on me, I've been driving the wagoneer (which hadn't been driven in 3 months). The back window has been up & down 3 dozen times over the last few days (we're finally getting the move to the new house in gear). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:35:41 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: New member of this list! With no oil pressure. Carl, my 69 Wagoneer with the 350 had a broken timing chain when I bought it... I ended up selling it before fixing it. BUT, I've had a couple other Buick V- motors and this sounds like a classic case of oil pump failure. Rebuilding it is quite easy. However, the oil pump may be in the timing cover (not sure, it's been over 5 years since I looked at one of these), and as a result a problem if the pump walls are severely worn. I highly recommend having the timing chain replaced and the oil pump rebuilt. You can do it, not terribly hard. When you reassemble the oil pump remember to pack it with vaseline before starting... If you can find the parts, upgrade to a true roller timing chain and a high volume oil pump... btw, welcome. I started the original FSJ list in 95 with a handful of other folks and then moved it to ORC when I was editing pages for them. When I quit ORC in late 97 they banned me from the lists... so I started this one. :) Not many remain of the original group. The guy that really kicked things off with me, Mike Lacher of Fargo, ND, sold his Wagoneer a few years ago. About half of the original dozen are still hanging around, mostly on the original list. The hero of the ORC fsj list, doc, was the last one to join the original bunch of FSJ types, aka the charter members. :) details on my web pages. john At 09:38 PM 2/6/00 -0700, you wrote: >Howdy all! > >After all the fooferaw on one of the other lists I decided to follow >someones advise and check into other FSJ lists, so here I am! I recognize >some folks from the "other" list, good to see you! >Well, here was todays adventure. My wife was coming back from the grocery >store today, and had what appears to be a complete loss of oil pressure in >the '69 Wagoneer. Luckily she drove only about a mile, and pulled into the >driveway with lifters clattering, and shut it down. >I reconnected :-) the oil pressure sender, and sure enough, the oil light >stays on! >Anyhow, this one has the 350 Buick motor, and I have already picked up the >oil pump rebuild kit, but I have never had a vehicle lose pressure like >this. The only thing I can think of is if the oil pump shaft broke, or if >the drive gear started spinning on the shaft, or something like that. >What's worse is that today is the day I traded off my '69 Ford f-250 for a >24 foot travel trailer, and the '69 Wagoneer is our tow vehicle! We are an >all FSJ family for the first time, but this was a heck of a day for the best >one to crap out! >The '66 Super Wagoneer is running, but still needs some work, the '69 used >to be called "Ole' Reliable" (until today) and we drove it the most, and the >'73 has been pretty reliable since I got it running a few months back. > >Cary Nickel >Bullhead City, Arizona >'66 Super Wagoneer >'69 Wagoneer >'73 Wagoneer > > > - ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/J10s/johns-83-Stepside/ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/J10s/marks-67-J3000/ (son's FSJ) http://wagoneers.com/john/JEEP/Vehicle-History.html http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 22:11:06 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Transfer case removal! Im skeered! At 08:16 PM 2/6/00 -0500, Skye Maloney wrote: >I read your transfer case removal and will be using it soon. I have a >cracked transfer case and must remove it and fix it. I have NO CLUE >where to start other than your advice. If you have any tips please let >send them my way. Anything will be appreciated. Also, can I unbolt the >screws holding the 2 halves of the case and fix the crack without a lot >of stuff popping out? If I take it in half will I have any seals or >Orings I would have to replace? Thanks! Thanks! Thanks! The best way to correctly fix that transfer case is to pull it out. If you try to split the case in the rig you'll have a mess and parts where you don't want them. It's not hard to do just the transfer case. Here's the steps (since I can't remember what I've already written. ;) 1) get the rig up on 4 jackstands so you can get underneath with a creeper 2) drain the xfr case, usually there is a drain plug on the bottom, or on the back side 3) remove both driveshafts... if you can disconnect them only at the transfer case all the better... tie up the shafts to the frame/exhaust, whatever... If you have a slip yoke driveshaft on the rear then completely remove the driveshaft and set it aside. 4) get a floor jack or tranny jack underneath the transmission, use wood to protect the pan. Gently raise it so you can see the mount uncompress. 5) loosen the 4 bolts holding the transmission to the xfr case, leave at least two in place to keep the xfr case from dropping 6) remove the linkages and vent hoses from the xfr case 7) remove the bolts holding the xfr case to the mount or the mount to the cross member, pick the easiest ones 8) position a floor jack so it can be placed under the xfr case 9) loosen the bolts holding the cross member to the frame. Take note of parking brake cables and exhaust. Remove the bolts from the side with the easiest access and lower the cross member while holding the xfr case with the jack 10) When you can see a clear way to pull the xfr case back, support the case with a jack or block or helper, remove the last two bolts and do so carefully, making sure you have a clear path and nothing hanging up. I can lift one by myself, especially the newer ones like you probably have. If I can pull a Quadratrac myself, you should be able to get an NP style out without too much struggle... Remember to use leverage and rest points. Don't try to bench press the silly thing, you'll want to provide a "guided" drop to the floor. ;) The use of 2x4's, plywood or, sheesh, a transmission jack will be of great assistance. 11) avoid dropping it. (I dropped a Dana 20 in my grease pit... thankfully I missed my foot and vital organs, and the bottom of the grease pit was dirt... I didn't realize how greasy and heavy those things were. ;) 12) Once you have the unit out, try to degrease it before opening it up. At this point you've probably saved about an hour to an hour and a half of shop time. If you don't know what makes these things tick, now's a good time to put it in the trunk and take it to a shop and let them do the surgery. To get that thing back in pretty much do the reverse. Just be careful not to damage the shaft and get it lined up properly... After doing this a few times I'd recommend considering having a shop do it. They have a lift, concrete, jacks to make this easy, air tools and more experience. Call for a quote. Ask what the chilton's flat rate guide says an R&R on a transfer case is. The older I get, the more I find myself willing to pay to have stuff done. Since I've never owned a new car, and have done most everything on my cars myself, I figure I deserve having someone else do it now with all the money I've saved over the years. :) My wife has determined an approximation of time translator. If I say 15 minutes, she says an hour. If I say 45 minutes, she knows it means 3 to 4 hours. If I say 4 hours she figures the weekend is shot. If I say a weekend... well, the last trans/xfr case swap I did started in September and I finished it up first part of December... ;) (It's nice having more than one vehicle sometimes... you can let it "rest".) best wishes, john - ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/83stepside/ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Jx000s/marks-67-J3000/ (son's FSJ) http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:45:06 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: OK, I'm starting to get At 09:39 PM 2/6/00 EST, RKH911-at-aol.com wrote: >I've been having warm starting problems, I mean nothing at start up when >warm. I replaced the starter thaen found that the starter motor was a lil Ok, let's run down a list of potential hot starting problems: 1) ignition module (brain) or the pickup 2) vapor lock or related fuel problem 3) starter / relay 4) ballast resistor 5) internal engine binding or trans binding (not very likely) 6) alternator problem creating a high load (regulator problem) 7) weak battery I had a problem with a built up engine in a small truck once, it was definetly starter related... the heat from the exhaust caused it to have problems... Heat is not always our friend. Please share what it REALLY is when you figure it out. Most of us are guessing based on our own strange FSJ experiences... it's hard to troubleshoot via email... john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 03:14:26 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Speaking of California (I passed the smo Robert Barry writes: >> This list is more of an experts-forum/bench-racing/what's-on-my-mind-at-the-moment kind of lis= t, that only works with a smaller group of people. << Kind of like the FSJ community was back in the early days. We did get way= off subject sometimes, but we had a really good timing doing it. I'm sure one of the reasons I'm still here after 4 1/2 years is I try har= d not to get involved in list politics, politics of any kind for that matte= r or religion. Not doing so doesn't give anyone an excuse to toss me out :-= ). Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 06-Feb-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 07:27:14 -0800 From: Thunderbird Subject: fsj: Re: 4x4 Creed 4x4 Creed by Tony Sain What many see as excessiveness, I see as necessity. What many see as too expensive, I see as priceless. What many see as twisted sheet metal, I see as a sculpture of experience. They call it maintenance. I call it caring. They say, "Why replace a perfectly good part?" I reply, "If it were perfect, it wouldn't need replacing. Besides, there are no perfect parts." They call it broken. I call it wounded. They see a scratch. I see a memory. They'll take the low road. They'll take the high road. I'll take a little of both and a lot of the space between. Some say I am destroying the earth. I say that I am becoming a part of it. They look at it. I look at it. I feel it. I taste it, breathe it and wear it in my hair. When they take away a trail, they take away my air. They say we are different... I say they are right. When you come to a fork in the road... Go straight. Brian 78 J10-4 4bbl/360/TH400/PTQT/D44/D44 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8/Sport "Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order." - --Ed Howdershelt ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:17:17 -0600 From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: re: power steering fluid leak "Berry, Bradley A" said: {- My other obvious problem I've had with this Jeep has been a steering fluid {- leak. I swear that this car generates that fluid, as it seems to make {- stains faster than it goes down in the reservoir. Anyway, I searched all {- over the pump for a leak, and unfortunately, the pump and hoses are {- perfectly dry, but the same can't be said for the box. As it is soaked from {- the top to bottom, I'm assuming that the seal at the top/back where it {- connects to the steering column is shot. I didn't have time to really {- inspect it, but it looks like the column will unbolt. So the last ( I {- promise) question is: {- {- ***** {- What is involved in fixing the seals in the steering box? Is this a simple {- unbolt the column and replace the top seal job, or is it such a pain that I {- should consider just mounting another box? {- ***** I saw the other responses, and they may be right, but check the hoses first. Just a couple months ago, I had a leak I couldn't seem to find, and it was all over both hoses and the box. I got a used box from the junkyard and had my box completely unbolted and ready to come out, when my friend took off the return hose and found three or four slashes in it, probably from age, right near the base. Not sure how it got all over (the return line isn't very high pressure), so if the same thing happened to you, it might not get all over the hoses. But it dripped onto the tie rod and the power steering box and everything else in the area, making it really hard to narrow down. (After cleaning the hoses, before taking the box off, it didn't get the hoses wet again in the next few days, but it did go all over the box itself again.) We ended up replacing it with a high-pressure plumbing hose from Lowe's with the same inner diameter -- very cheap, cut to the length you want, and no problems since then (I intend to watch it in the summer to make sure the outside of the hose doesn't blister). And it's a bright yellow hose now. :) Fortunately, the junkyard let me bring the used box back, no questions asked, since I hadn't used it. And it was nice to have for reference. But a hose replacement is a lot cheaper and easier than doing the whole box. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shin: (n.) A device for finding furniture in the dark. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 100 08:51:55 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: bed lifted... Looks like Murphy spent at least part of the weekend at my place. I went out this morning and found a big oily puddle under the front drivers side wheel of my bronco. Upon closer inspection I discovered the front drivers side axle u-joint has self destructed. Why couldn't this happen in the summer? - -brad John writes: > so far, so good... the stepside bed is now 2" higher... > the remaining bolts don't look right. gonna run up to > the hardware store for some a little closer to what I'll > need. > > what is really nice is that the fuel tank and filler was > attached to the bed so I didn't have to fuss with all that. :) > > The cab looks pretty straight forward. Six more bolts... whoever > is sitting on Murphy, thanx... please hold him just a bit longer. > > (I actually fixed a couple things on the little wagoneer too... :) > john ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #716 *************************