From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Feb 14 14:57:34 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, February 14 2000 Volume 01 : Number 727 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: superdawg update Re: fsj: gutless 327 Jeep motor Re: fsj: gutless 327 Jeep motor Re: fsj: Re: My Wagoneer fsj: insurance fun coming up.... fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #724, TF vs. TH400 fsj: Re: Re: fsj-digest V1 #724, TF vs. TH400 fsj: Another Wagoneer fsj: gutless 327 Jeep motor Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #724, TF vs. TH400 Re: fsj: insurance fun coming up.... fsj: Tire size Re: fsj: insurance fun coming up.... Re: fsj: gutless 327 Jeep motor Re: fsj: '73"wagoneer" fsj: Re: FSJ for sale! FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 23:15:57 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: superdawg update In a message dated 2/13/2000 7:34:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 01:16:35 -0800 > From: john (snip) > also grabbed the extra PC speakers from an HP Pavilion system I > installed for a Dr's office and wedged them in the door posts and > wired them in... so I have a 4 speaker system in my J10. :) They > aren't the best quality sound, but fill in nicely and will make it > much more enjoyable... How'd you do dat? I always thought the old PC speakers ought to be good for something but it seemed like I once read that there was something so odd about them that they weren't good for much else. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:24:54 -0600 From: poolcues-at-bellsouth.net Subject: Re: fsj: gutless 327 Jeep motor How is the coil? R.J. evanlee wrote: > Howdy all, > > I am getting extremely frustrated with the performance of my Super Wagoneer > with the 327 motor. It has the four barrel Holley carb, and according to > the books had the most horsepower of any Wagoneer. My frustration is that > with all the tuning, adjusting, tweaking, etc. I am not able to get it up > to the acceleration level of either of my other two Wagoneers. I have two > others, a 1969 with the 350 Buick, and a 1973 with the 360 AMC. Either of > these other two Wagoneers will easily beat the one with the 327 in the > quarter mile. In fact, the 1981 Waggy that I traded for the Super Wag had > the 258 Six, and it would probably beat it, too. > If I didn't know better, I would think the 327 was just a dog motor. But I > had a 327 in a '67 Wagoneer years ago, and I was more than happy with the > performance of that one, and it had the standard two barrel carb.. > I am at a loss. It doesn't miss, it idles smooth, and accelerates smooth, > the points are good, wires, spark plugs all new, the heat riser is working > fine, checked the vacuum advance today, and it is operating. No vacuum leaks > that I can find. Doesn't overheat, the tranny shifts right. Brakes aren't > dragging, Spark plugs aren't fouling. > I just don't get it. > I am not very familiar with four barrel carbs. The Holley has vacuum > secondaries. If the secondaries are not opening on time, could that cause > poor performance during acceleration from a standstill? Or do they function > at higher speeds only? This is the one thing that could be causing my > problem, but I just don't know enough about 4 barrels to know for sure. > I would appreciate any input on this, thanks in advance! > > Cary Nickel > Bullhead City, Arizona > '66 Super Wagoneer > '69 Wagoneer > '73 Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:23:55 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: gutless 327 Jeep motor A: First, I'd play skeet with the HOlley! But that's my personal opinion FWIW. Are you sure the timing chain isn't one notch out? Didn't you just rewind this puppy? It needs some time to break in! Check the distributor for mechanical advance, because the 327 wants LOTS of it! Have someone push the go pedal to the floor (motor off) and see if the linkage moves all the way open. Was the intake a 4 small hole? Is the carb a match for it? The secondaries of a spread bore (2 big secondaries, 2 small primaries) won't open on a square bore intake. Cary wrote: Howdy all, I am getting extremely frustrated with the performance of my Super Wagoneer with the 327 motor. It has the four barrel Holley carb, and according to the books had the most horsepower of any Wagoneer. My frustration is that with all the tuning, adjusting, tweaking, etc. I am not able to get it up to the acceleration level of either of my other two Wagoneers. I have two others, a 1969 with the 350 Buick, and a 1973 with the 360 AMC. Either of these other two Wagoneers will easily beat the one with the 327 in the quarter mile. In fact, the 1981 Waggy that I traded for the Super Wag had the 258 Six, and it would probably beat it, too. If I didn't know better, I would think the 327 was just a dog motor. But I had a 327 in a '67 Wagoneer years ago, and I was more than happy with the performance of that one, and it had the standard two barrel carb.. I am at a loss. It doesn't miss, it idles smooth, and accelerates smooth, the points are good, wires, spark plugs all new, the heat riser is working fine, checked the vacuum advance today, and it is operating. No vacuum leaks that I can find. Doesn't overheat, the tranny shifts right. Brakes aren't dragging, Spark plugs aren't fouling. I just don't get it. I am not very familiar with four barrel carbs. The Holley has vacuum secondaries. If the secondaries are not opening on time, could that cause poor performance during acceleration from a standstill? Or do they function at higher speeds only? This is the one thing that could be causing my problem, but I just don't know enough about 4 barrels to know for sure. I would appreciate any input on this, thanks in advance! Cary Nickel Bullhead City, Arizona '66 Super Wagoneer '69 Wagoneer '73 Wagoneer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:30:29 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: My Wagoneer A: There are several boxes available. The '80 up (if my source was correct) have the variable rate boxes) There are also super boxes available on the net (forget who has them) Ehron13-at-aol.com wrote: John, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Just "surfing"and found your info on Wagoneers. I'm looking for "cures" for the wondering as I go down the road. I use mine as a daily driver, but I have converted over to the "regular" transfer case with manual locking hubs up front. I would also like to find info on locking differentials. Have you heard of "electric locks" from Airlockers? only rig I know of with 'em is a Toyoter. ARB's are air powered. Just a rumor that I've been hearing for about a year now. =A0 About this time last year I rebuilt my engine. (an '86 360). This lead to a rebuilt tranny and all this was after the new transfer case. (I think I caused the slow death of it at Pismo Beach.) I raise it about 1 to 2 inches and added 31" tires. (I was only able to get the ones on sale at America's Tire Co...) I also scratch built an overhead self were I mounted my CB and a cigarette lighter style power port. I'm gonna redo my headliner in my J10 with a sunroof and then mount my CB up above... my headliner is totally shot anyway... :) =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0About the steering problem, I've heard that there are "dual" rate or "variable" rate gear boxes out there. If this is the cure, were and what do I look for? NOt sure what the problem is... But replacing the pump isn't too hard, or expensive... john =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Thanks, Eric ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:13:27 -0700 From: "Tacoma White" Subject: fsj: insurance fun coming up.... damnit! some little.... grrr some nice young woman just hit me in my Jeep, about an hour ago. Passed me on a residential street and cut me off, taking her expensive rear bumper off and bending my IRREPLACEABLE Warn winch bumper. Then she wants a cop, who comes and refuses to fill out an accident report, dismisses TWO WITNESSES who watched her break the law, and then tells me that if he weregiving out tickets he'd give ME one for passing on the right-- impossible I say, what about all the fire hydrants and the 12" gutter?? WTF!!! and THEN I call her insurance co. to let them know that any claim leveled against me will be challenged-- and she has no current policy. WTF!! I'm trying to be the nice guy, because only one bracket is ruined, but anyone want to guess how much that bumper's worth NEW? because that's what she'll be looking at if she even flinches toward my insurance co.. It's fair to do that to her, but I don't want to. We'll see what she says when I tell her she has no insurance. Damnit! at least the Jeep's fine and no one is hurt. =) If I'd have had my M725 it would have taken out her rear 1/4, it's about a foot higher than the Cherokee, and with no rounded bumper either LOL.... now if you'll excuse me I need a beer or something!! argh!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:17:02 -0800 From: Clark Novak Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #724, TF vs. TH400 On this topic, I just met a lady with a pristine black '76 Cherokee S. It's got 287,000 on the clock, and she JUST rebuilt the TH400. When I told her that the Judge ate its Torqueflite at just 125k, she was aghast. And so am I. If I ever blow the engine on this beast (Lord, what did I just say??), I'm putting in a Chevy 350 and TurboHydro, and I'll be smiling when I write the check. Clark Novak 87 Grand Wag John Meister wrote: > I agree with Michael on the TH400s. For years I'd heard of Elephant > power... Figured the Chrysler trannies were indestructable... but > after Old Blue ate more than three of 'em... I'm not so sure about > the infallibilty of the Torqueflite any more... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:24:41 -0700 From: "Tacoma White" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: fsj-digest V1 #724, TF vs. TH400 > I. If I ever blow the engine on this beast (Lord, what did I just say??), > I'm putting in a Chevy 350 and TurboHydro, and I'll be smiling when I write > the check. > we'll see if you're still smiling when you write the check for the new adapters and the new radiator and..... etc etc. Why not a new tranny/xfer from a Jeep??? tee hee.. I'm still mad about my bumper!! rrrr. in UT Tacoma 78 Cherokee w/bent bumper now 67 Kaiser M725 "Gigantor the Heep" icq 5058954 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 02:44:34 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Another Wagoneer Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) writes: >> My question was will the Jeep bodies exchange frames from the 3" shorter version? << As far as I know there are no significant changes in the frames from '76 to '91. Meaning all the body mounts stayed in the same places. Jeep redesigned the frame for '76 making it more rigid than the previous frame= s and incorporating a much better flush steering box mount. Apparently they= moved a few body mounts around at the same time. But since the WT bodies are '76, no factor. You may have some issues with the gas tank mounts due to the tank changes= . And you'll find the fuel filler hole on the '76 body is in a different location. Hopefully you'll be able to modify the later filler to work sin= ce it is supposed to be easier to fill with. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 13-Feb-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 02:44:35 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: gutless 327 Jeep motor "evanlee" writes: >> I am getting extremely frustrated with the performance of my Super Wagoneer with the 327 motor. It has the four barrel Holley carb, and according to the books had the most horsepower of any Wagoneer. << Engines in the '60s were rated in Gross HP. In '71-'72 the SAE standardized engine power measurement using Net HP. If the 270 HP 327 4bb= l were rated in SAE Net, it would be about 185 HP. You often here muscle ca= r owner's bragging about their 425 HP Big Block engines and how much more powerful they were than todays engine. A 425 HP BB would be equivalent to= about 300 HP using SAE Net. Consider that the LS-1 6.0L now outputs as mu= ch as 315 HP SAE Net. If you used Gross HP to measure the output of a LT-5 o= r a V-10 Viper engine, you'd have HP numbers up around 600 HP. >> I am not very familiar with four barrel carbs. The Holley has vacuum secondaries. If the secondaries are not opening on time, could tha= t cause poor performance during acceleration from a standstill? Or do they= function at higher speeds only? << The secondaries won't open fully from a standstill to prevent bogging. But they should open fully soon afterwards. Is the secondaries' vacuum control line external? If so, you can test their operation easily by applying a vac. signal. If not, look in a Holley book for the procedure. I'm sure there is one. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 13-Feb-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:00:26 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #724, TF vs. TH400 A: Why? You'd be better off (simpler, less costly and time consuming) to swap the tranny and put in a Dodge engine! (If a change is what you need) To do the GM thing, it would require transdapters, or if you go TH400, then you'd need a front axle and all the QT stuff too! Clark=A0Novak wrote: On this topic, I just met a lady with a pristine black '76 Cherokee S. It's got 287,000 on the clock, and she JUST rebuilt the TH400. When I told her that the Judge ate its Torqueflite at just 125k, she was aghast. And so am I. If I ever blow the engine on this beast (Lord, what did I just say??), I'm putting in a Chevy 350 and TurboHydro, and I'll be smiling when I write the check. Clark Novak 87 Grand Wag John Meister wrote: I agree with Michael on the TH400s. =A0 For years I'd heard of Elephant power... Figured the Chrysler trannies were indestructable... but after Old Blue ate more than three of 'em... I'm not so sure about the infallibilty of the Torqueflite any more... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:12:41 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: insurance fun coming up.... A: Sounds like she "knew" the cop, if you get what I mean. Same S#!t here with a Bellevue cop letting the woman that hit me drive away with no license and insurance (leaving me to go to the hospital by ambulance, and L&I just waiting to rip me off! Fortunately I had my video camera with me, and got her plate # which was written incorrectly on the report. Guess which department had a firing last year?) I'd get on the phone in the morning with the CO and have that cop walking funny! Did you get the witness info yourself? NEVER go without it! Some people will lie, cheat and do anything to help a "friend" and unfortunately it's rampant behind the badge. I've so far been responsible for the firing of 3, and reprimands of many more. Wish there were more like my friend Norm. He'd NEVER pad a ticket or do BS like that, and when he blew the whistle on the corruption, all he got was lead piped for his effort. Tacoma=A0White wrote: damnit! some little.... grrr some nice young woman just hit me in my Jeep, about an hour ago. Passed me on a residential street and cut me off, taking her expensive rear bumper off and bending my IRREPLACEABLE Warn winch bumper. Then she wants a cop, who comes and refuses to fill out an accident report, dismisses TWO WITNESSES who watched her break the law, and then tells me that if he weregiving out tickets he'd give ME one for passing on the right-- impossible I say, what about all the fire hydrants and the 12" gutter?? WTF!!! =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0and THEN I call her insurance co. to let them know that any claim leveled against me will be challenged-- and she has no current policy. WTF!! =A0 I'm trying to be the nice guy, because only one bracket is ruined, but anyone want to guess how much that bumper's worth NEW? because that's what she'll be looking at if she even flinches toward my insurance co.. It's fair to do that to her, but I don't want to. We'll see what she says when I tell her she has no insurance. Damnit! =A0=A0at least the Jeep's fine and no one is hurt. =3D) If I'd have had my= M725 it would have taken out her rear 1/4, it's about a foot higher than the Cherokee, and with no rounded bumper either LOL.... =A0 =A0 =A0 now if you'll excuse me I need a beer or something!! argh!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 06:07:14 -0700 From: "Berry, Bradley A" Subject: fsj: Tire size OK guys, Just for reference, 31 x 10.5s will not necessarily fit under your GW. My 88 seems to have settled a little in the rear, but that appears to be par for the course. It isn't obvious or anything, and it might even be normal from the factory. Anyway when I go over an off camber rail track or up a steep driveway, I rub the tires. So, that means that I have an excuse for suspension work! I still haven't found out if Old Man EMU makes FSJ springs yet, but they'd be my first choice. Does anyone have a suggestion for springs/shocks/blocks that might actually improve my ride, instead of making it worse? Thanks, Brad Berry 88 GW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:45:14 -0800 From: Joe Schaefer Subject: Re: fsj: insurance fun coming up.... > >Tacoma=A0White wrote:=20 >damnit! some little.... grrr some nice young woman just hit me in my >Jeep, about an hour ago. Passed me on a residential street and cut me >off, taking her expensive rear bumper off and bending my IRREPLACEABLE >Warn winch bumper. Then she wants a cop, who comes and refuses to fill >out an accident report, dismisses TWO WITNESSES who watched her break >the law, and then tells me that if he weregiving out tickets he'd give >ME one for passing on the right-- impossible I say, what about all the >fire hydrants and the 12" gutter?? WTF!!! Tacoma, go back and have the two witnesses write up a signed statement for you. It may come in handy later to CYA. A cop "can not disallow a witness" if there is a dispute. After all, they were there...the cop wasn't. Regards, joe schaefer, nordland wa, usa, oldiron-at-waypt.com 63 wag, 73 j-4000, 82 cj-8 "we doan need no steenkin power windows..." - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:31:16 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: gutless 327 Jeep motor two things come to mind... - my 67 327 was a torque monster, but not a "fast revving" motor - what kind of gears does it have? weight? My 67 wag with the stock 327/2v running 3.73's on 215s??? 225s??? did 0to60 in about 12 seconds... john At 08:05 PM 2/13/00 -0700, evanlee wrote: >Howdy all, > >I am getting extremely frustrated with the performance of my Super Wagoneer >with the 327 motor. It has the four barrel Holley carb, and according to >the books had the most horsepower of any Wagoneer. My frustration is that >with all the tuning, adjusting, tweaking, etc. I am not able to get it up >to the acceleration level of either of my other two Wagoneers. I have two >others, a 1969 with the 350 Buick, and a 1973 with the 360 AMC. Either of >these other two Wagoneers will easily beat the one with the 327 in the >quarter mile. In fact, the 1981 Waggy that I traded for the Super Wag had >the 258 Six, and it would probably beat it, too. >If I didn't know better, I would think the 327 was just a dog motor. But I >had a 327 in a '67 Wagoneer years ago, and I was more than happy with the >performance of that one, and it had the standard two barrel carb.. >I am at a loss. It doesn't miss, it idles smooth, and accelerates smooth, >the points are good, wires, spark plugs all new, the heat riser is working >fine, checked the vacuum advance today, and it is operating. No vacuum leaks >that I can find. Doesn't overheat, the tranny shifts right. Brakes aren't >dragging, Spark plugs aren't fouling. >I just don't get it. >I am not very familiar with four barrel carbs. The Holley has vacuum >secondaries. If the secondaries are not opening on time, could that cause >poor performance during acceleration from a standstill? Or do they function >at higher speeds only? This is the one thing that could be causing my >problem, but I just don't know enough about 4 barrels to know for sure. >I would appreciate any input on this, thanks in advance! > >Cary Nickel >Bullhead City, Arizona >'66 Super Wagoneer >'69 Wagoneer >'73 Wagoneer > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 100 09:59:57 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: '73"wagoneer" The NP203 t-case was used by Dodge, GM, and Ford in the 70s. - -brad John writes: > Isn't an NP203 a Chevy xfr case? Won't that connect to the TH400? Or > is the NP203 one of those divorced units? It's not a standard Jeep > xfr case to my knowledge... but then I only play with XJ and SJ type jeeps... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:25:40 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: FSJ for sale! At 12:39 AM 2/14/00 EST, MPRINCE676-at-aol.com wrote: >John, > >I have decided that we really don't need to keep the Jeep around since we >don't ever get to use it. We have to "regular" cars and always seem to just >use them. > >Any suggestions on the best way to market my vehicle so we can get the best >return on our investments? A couple of Jeep dealers I asked just laughed >since they haven't sold anything like it since long before these guys had >those jobs. It is an '87. We had the air conditioning and carburetor >rebuilt and the headliner replaced to get it up off my ears! It has about >138K miles on it. No major body damage. It needs a radio. > >Thanks for making a suggestion. > >mprince676-at-aol.com > If it has a sunroof and decent paint I might be interested. :) Otherwise the internet has several options. Local forsale newsgroups, yahoo auction, ebay auction, and of course I can forward the info the FSJ list. :) Don't believe a car lot... they don't really know much about some of these rigs... you're dealing with a niche market. :) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #727 *************************