From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Mar 1 22:19:22 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, March 2 2000 Volume 01 : Number 755 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Explanation of hub change for Doc fsj: AMC 360 Engine Mods/Build fsj: Re: AMC 360 Engine Mods/Build Re: fsj: Tranny fixed fsj: Re: Rochester 2GC fsj: Re: Re: Rochester 2GC Re: fsj: Re: Re: Rochester 2GC Re: fsj: Re: Re: Rochester 2GC FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 21:51:56 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Explanation of hub change for Doc "Jesse Serrano, II" writes: >> Doc, I can understand your confusion. The hubs on the 73-77 J20's (sometimes 78) are much larger and beefier than the hubs on the 79 (like mine) and up J20 's. If you look at them comparatively you can see the difference: the later units are tapered from the rotor out where the= earlier models are square shouldered and straight out. Thanks to Zack Heisey's broad collection of goody's I could compare them first hand. The bearing set is larger for the earlier and they require different hub-locker part number than the later. In fact, I have heard such rave reviews concerning Mile Marker lockers that I wanted to install= them during my truck's regeneration (ground up resto and four door cab), however, Mile Marker does not make them for the larger style hubs (though= I'm still investigating the possibilities of crossing over a different application.) << Jesse, I knew the '77-'79 J-20 8 lug 44s used the same hubs as my '79 WT'= s 6 lug so, I visited the Warn site (http://www.warn.com) and found the following. The differences in the J-20 appear to be '76 and back. The numbers are, for example the Wagoneer listing, 19 spline and then 4 different hub model's part #s. The third one over is the Warn Premium mod= el # I think. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - = Gladiator, Wagoneer, Pickup '73 & Prior 10 29062 M54 = - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - = Full Size Wagoneer, Cherokee, J-10 Pickup, Commander '74-91 G = 19 9790 M248 20990 M198 = - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- = J-20 Pickup (heavy axle) '72-76 = 19 9072 M197 = - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- = J-20 Pickup '77-87 = 19 9790 M248 20990 M198 = - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- = J4800 Pickup, Camper Spl '69-74 = 10 6094 M175 = - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- = Jeep Station Wagon, Pickup '65 & Prior = 10 29062 M54 = - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- = Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 01-Mar-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 21:51:57 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: AMC 360 Engine Mods/Build "Landon Tesar" writes: >> new cam and hydraulic roller lifters, << Landon, No one in the aftermarket makes an off-the-self hydraulic roller lifter kit for the AMC V-8 unfortunately. The Mopar pre-Magnum A Block uses the same aftermarket lifter (but they don't oil the valve trai= n via up the push rod tube like AMCs) as the AMC V-8. Then along comes the = A Block Magnum engines starting around '92 with roller lifters but, they changed the casting and the lifter bores are taller to accommodate the taller roller lifter. They're the same diameter. Now what I don't know is= how the length of the AMC lifter bore compares to the Magnum A Block's lifter bore. At this time, I have everything organized to find-out if the Magnum roller will work in the AMC lifter bore. I'm almost sure it will. I have everything packed in boxes to take down to the machinist. Before I go dow= n there, I'll take the block to the shop and put it in the big "dish washer= " there. Then we'll work on the lifter thing. The AMC lifter bores are abou= t .2" further apart than the Magnum's so the Magnums yokes will have to be sectioned, then widened and either the Magnum's spider modified or a new spider fabricated. How Mopar keeps the roller lifters from rotating is th= ey put a yoke over each lifter pair and then hold all 8 yokes in place with = a sheet metal piece that is fastened to the valley floor which looks kind o= f like a spider and even has the right number of legs. Anyway, It's a historic occasion because my SEFI hybrid project is boxed-up and ready for the machinist. The only problem is the machinist i= s not ready for the hybrid project because he had to have an operation and he's recovering at the moment. This is the retired gentleman my friend found who is about 90 miles south of me and has a full machine shop so he= doesn't get bored. He was a machinist for Big Daddy Don Garlit before he retired. >> Are the valves adjustable on the 360 V8 ? I think I've got some clattering in the valve train. Do the cams go soft ? << Despite what the Mopar Jeep Engine Performance Book says, they're are not adjustable. The cams don't have any reputation for loosing lobes like= the front lobes on small-block Chevys do. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 01-Mar-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 21:37:19 -0600 From: "TLynn" Subject: fsj: Re: AMC 360 Engine Mods/Build I just recieved the latest Summit catalog and they have roller rockers from "Harland Sharp" for the AMC v8's 1.6 ratio and 3/8" stud part number csp-4004 for $199.95 (set of 16)...page 58. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Baxter" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 20:51 Subject: fsj: AMC 360 Engine Mods/Build "Landon Tesar" writes: >> new cam and hydraulic roller lifters, << Landon, No one in the aftermarket makes an off-the-self hydraulic roller lifter kit for the AMC V-8 unfortunately. The Mopar pre-Magnum A Block uses the same aftermarket lifter (but they don't oil the valve train via up the push rod tube like AMCs) as the AMC V-8. Then along comes the A Block Magnum engines starting around '92 with roller lifters but, they changed the casting and the lifter bores are taller to accommodate the taller roller lifter. They're the same diameter. Now what I don't know is how the length of the AMC lifter bore compares to the Magnum A Block's lifter bore. At this time, I have everything organized to find-out if the Magnum roller will work in the AMC lifter bore. I'm almost sure it will. I have everything packed in boxes to take down to the machinist. Before I go down there, I'll take the block to the shop and put it in the big "dish washer" there. Then we'll work on the lifter thing. The AMC lifter bores are about .2" further apart than the Magnum's so the Magnums yokes will have to be sectioned, then widened and either the Magnum's spider modified or a new spider fabricated. How Mopar keeps the roller lifters from rotating is they put a yoke over each lifter pair and then hold all 8 yokes in place with a sheet metal piece that is fastened to the valley floor which looks kind of like a spider and even has the right number of legs. Anyway, It's a historic occasion because my SEFI hybrid project is boxed-up and ready for the machinist. The only problem is the machinist is not ready for the hybrid project because he had to have an operation and he's recovering at the moment. This is the retired gentleman my friend found who is about 90 miles south of me and has a full machine shop so he doesn't get bored. He was a machinist for Big Daddy Don Garlit before he retired. >> Are the valves adjustable on the 360 V8 ? I think I've got some clattering in the valve train. Do the cams go soft ? << Despite what the Mopar Jeep Engine Performance Book says, they're are not adjustable. The cams don't have any reputation for loosing lobes like the front lobes on small-block Chevys do. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 01-Mar-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 20:08:27 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Tranny fixed could you take some pictures or draw up a diagram? I'll post it in the tech section on wagoneers.com john At 08:55 PM 3/1/00, Saltsgavers wrote: >Hi ho all, >Just checking in to let you all know that my suspicion was correct on the >failure of my 727 tranny. I found a chunk of dirt (clutch material?) about >the size of a sesame seed stuck in the governor weight. Buttoned it all up >Friday night & it runs like a charm. > >I built a another fixture for removing the xfer case that worked well. I >took 3 pieces of wood, about 5 inches in width, taking 2 of them & tracing >the outline of the countour of the bottom of the case. I fastened them to >the 3rd piece & then attached it to the floor jack. Worked like a charm. >I had built one to fit a quadratrac some years ago & now will always be >ready to tackle a 208 case. > >Mike S. > > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 20:44:36 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Rochester 2GC so in other words, it won't work with the Clifford, just like the Holley TBI... :( It's looking like the only thing that is going to work, other than the 4.0L setup, is the Holley 390 cfm for $250 from Jegs... problem is I'm outta bucks... :( Gotta sell an HP pretty quick. :) john At 06:00 PM 3/1/00 -0800, Paul W. wrote: >It's a common as dirt two barrel carb used on all the GM sixes and small bock >V8's from the 50's well into the 70's. The 350 (and maybe the 327?) version >has a bigger bolt pattern (and more CFM) than the others. I don't know if one >will bolt to your Clifford, since I don't know what pattern it has, but if I >remember right, if a BBD will fit, so will the smaller 2GC... it's a popular >mod for the CJ crowd that are cursed with problematic BBDs. You probably won't >find one at Fitz due to their age, but places like Ray's Auto Wrecking in >Everett, or any other yard that specializes in the older cars should have a >pile of them. > >Paul > >--- john wrote: >> >> ok... what is a 2GC? What years/models? Is this a >> Fitz item or some other local yard? >> >> Will it bolt right up to the Clifford? >> >> thanx, >> john >> >> >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:19:47 -0800 (PST) >> >From: "Paul W." >> >Subject: Re: xj: carb help... again... >> > >> >A carb that works well on the 258 and happens to also be an excellent >> off-road >> >carb is a Rochester 2GC from a Chevy I6, old Buick/Jeep V6 or Chevy 283 V8. >> >(some of the bigger small block Chevies also used a 2GC, but it is a bigger >> >version that will be too much for a stock 258). Often times you can find >> these >> >babies real cheap - or even free! I had a guy give me one from a 283 >> because >> >he was going to a 4bbl and just wanted the thing out of his shop. >> > >> >Paul >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:52:07 -0700 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: Rochester 2GC I'd avoid that Rochester like the plague! It was a popular conversion for I6 Landcruisers, too, but the Weber 38/38 is a better carb for go, and the Weber 32/36 for economy. My '69 FJ-40, my last ride before J0E had the Rochester ["Yes, Mr. Benny?"] and my friend's FJ-40, the same in every other respect, with the Weber 32/36 got 5mpg better mileage. I suppose you could get an adapter and run the Weber until you get the 4.0L installed. If a person was starting from scratch, the hot ticket would be Clifford's purpose built manifold for the Weber on the 258ci. Although, the more I look at things, the more I'm persuaded that if you insist on a petrol motor, closed loop FI is the way to go for max mileage. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ----- Original Message ----- From: john To: Paul W. Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 21:44 Subject: fsj: Re: Rochester 2GC so in other words, it won't work with the Clifford, just like the Holley TBI... It's looking like the only thing that is going to work, other than the 4.0L setup, is the Holley 390 cfm for $250 from Jegs... problem is I'm outta bucks... :( Gotta sell an HP pretty quick. :) john At 06:00 PM 3/1/00 -0800, Paul W. wrote: >It's a common as dirt two barrel carb used on all the GM sixes and small bock >V8's from the 50's well into the 70's. The 350 (and maybe the 327?) version >has a bigger bolt pattern (and more CFM) than the others. I don't know if one >will bolt to your Clifford, since I don't know what pattern it has, but if I >remember right, if a BBD will fit, so will the smaller 2GC... it's a popular >mod for the CJ crowd that are cursed with problematic BBDs. You probably won't >find one at Fitz due to their age, but places like Ray's Auto Wrecking in >Everett, or any other yard that specializes in the older cars should have a >pile of them. > >Paul > >--- john wrote: >> >> ok... what is a 2GC? What years/models? Is this a >> Fitz item or some other local yard? >> >> Will it bolt right up to the Clifford? >> >> thanx, >> john >> >> >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:19:47 -0800 (PST) >> >From: "Paul W." >> >Subject: Re: xj: carb help... again... >> > >> >A carb that works well on the 258 and happens to also be an excellent >> off-road >> >carb is a Rochester 2GC from a Chevy I6, old Buick/Jeep V6 or Chevy 283 V8. >> >(some of the bigger small block Chevies also used a 2GC, but it is a bigger >> >version that will be too much for a stock 258). Often times you can find >> these >> >babies real cheap - or even free! I had a guy give me one from a 283 >> because >> >he was going to a 4bbl and just wanted the thing out of his shop. >> > >> >Paul >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 21:57:13 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Rochester 2GC thanx... btw, someone mentioned rejetting the 2v holley gas hose that's on there now... shoot, I might be better if I just plugged one of the holes with plumbers putty and duct tape... ;) john At 10:52 PM 3/1/00 -0700, Kim Smith wrote: >I'd avoid that Rochester like the plague! It was a popular conversion for I6 >Landcruisers, too, but the Weber 38/38 is a better carb for go, and the >Weber 32/36 for economy. My '69 FJ-40, my last ride before J0E had the >Rochester ["Yes, Mr. Benny?"] and my friend's FJ-40, the same in every other >respect, with the Weber 32/36 got 5mpg better mileage. I suppose you could >get an adapter and run the Weber until you get the 4.0L installed. If a >person was starting from scratch, the hot ticket would be Clifford's purpose >built manifold for the Weber on the 258ci. Although, the more I look at >things, the more I'm persuaded that if you insist on a petrol motor, closed >loop FI is the way to go for max mileage. > >kim >'80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: john > To: Paul W. > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net > Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 21:44 > Subject: fsj: Re: Rochester 2GC > > > so in other words, it won't work with the Clifford, just like > the Holley TBI... > > > It's looking like the only thing that is going to work, other than > the 4.0L setup, is the Holley 390 cfm for $250 from Jegs... problem > is I'm outta bucks... :( Gotta sell an HP pretty quick. :) > > john > > > At 06:00 PM 3/1/00 -0800, Paul W. wrote: > >It's a common as dirt two barrel carb used on all the GM sixes and small >bock > >V8's from the 50's well into the 70's. The 350 (and maybe the 327?) >version > >has a bigger bolt pattern (and more CFM) than the others. I don't know >if > one > >will bolt to your Clifford, since I don't know what pattern it has, but >if I > >remember right, if a BBD will fit, so will the smaller 2GC... it's a >popular > >mod for the CJ crowd that are cursed with problematic BBDs. You probably > won't > >find one at Fitz due to their age, but places like Ray's Auto Wrecking in > >Everett, or any other yard that specializes in the older cars should have >a > >pile of them. > > > >Paul > > > >--- john wrote: > >> > >> ok... what is a 2GC? What years/models? Is this a > >> Fitz item or some other local yard? > >> > >> Will it bolt right up to the Clifford? > >> > >> thanx, > >> john > >> > >> >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:19:47 -0800 (PST) > >> >From: "Paul W." > >> >Subject: Re: xj: carb help... again... > >> > > >> >A carb that works well on the 258 and happens to also be an excellent > >> off-road > >> >carb is a Rochester 2GC from a Chevy I6, old Buick/Jeep V6 or Chevy >283 > V8. > >> >(some of the bigger small block Chevies also used a 2GC, but it is a > bigger > >> >version that will be too much for a stock 258). Often times you can >find > >> these > >> >babies real cheap - or even free! I had a guy give me one from a 283 > >> because > >> >he was going to a 4bbl and just wanted the thing out of his shop. > >> > > >> >Paul > >> > > >> ----------------------------------------------------- > >> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > >> ----------------------------------------------------- > >> > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > >http://im.yahoo.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 23:06:19 -0700 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Rochester 2GC Don't know about plumber's putty, but I rejetted my 2GC by filling the included spare jets with J-B Weld, and drilling them out a little at a time with wire drills. Worked for me. Rejetting the Holley is the cheapest thing to do for now, but if my experience with the FJ-40 is any guide, you won't pick up a lot of mpg. Venturi area is the key to mileage improvement, you need high flow velocity not high volume at low rpm. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ----- Original Message ----- From: john To: Kim Smith Cc: FSJ Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 22:57 Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Rochester 2GC thanx... btw, someone mentioned rejetting the 2v holley gas hose that's on there now... shoot, I might be better if I just plugged one of the holes with plumbers putty and duct tape... ;) john At 10:52 PM 3/1/00 -0700, Kim Smith wrote: >I'd avoid that Rochester like the plague! It was a popular conversion for I6 >Landcruisers, too, but the Weber 38/38 is a better carb for go, and the >Weber 32/36 for economy. My '69 FJ-40, my last ride before J0E had the >Rochester ["Yes, Mr. Benny?"] and my friend's FJ-40, the same in every other >respect, with the Weber 32/36 got 5mpg better mileage. I suppose you could >get an adapter and run the Weber until you get the 4.0L installed. If a >person was starting from scratch, the hot ticket would be Clifford's purpose >built manifold for the Weber on the 258ci. Although, the more I look at >things, the more I'm persuaded that if you insist on a petrol motor, closed >loop FI is the way to go for max mileage. > >kim >'80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: john > To: Paul W. > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net > Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 21:44 > Subject: fsj: Re: Rochester 2GC > > > so in other words, it won't work with the Clifford, just like > the Holley TBI... > > > It's looking like the only thing that is going to work, other than > the 4.0L setup, is the Holley 390 cfm for $250 from Jegs... problem > is I'm outta bucks... :( Gotta sell an HP pretty quick. :) > > john > > > At 06:00 PM 3/1/00 -0800, Paul W. wrote: > >It's a common as dirt two barrel carb used on all the GM sixes and small >bock > >V8's from the 50's well into the 70's. The 350 (and maybe the 327?) >version > >has a bigger bolt pattern (and more CFM) than the others. I don't know >if > one > >will bolt to your Clifford, since I don't know what pattern it has, but >if I > >remember right, if a BBD will fit, so will the smaller 2GC... it's a >popular > >mod for the CJ crowd that are cursed with problematic BBDs. You probably > won't > >find one at Fitz due to their age, but places like Ray's Auto Wrecking in > >Everett, or any other yard that specializes in the older cars should have >a > >pile of them. > > > >Paul > > > >--- john wrote: > >> > >> ok... what is a 2GC? What years/models? Is this a > >> Fitz item or some other local yard? > >> > >> Will it bolt right up to the Clifford? > >> > >> thanx, > >> john > >> > >> >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:19:47 -0800 (PST) > >> >From: "Paul W." > >> >Subject: Re: xj: carb help... again... > >> > > >> >A carb that works well on the 258 and happens to also be an excellent > >> off-road > >> >carb is a Rochester 2GC from a Chevy I6, old Buick/Jeep V6 or Chevy >283 > V8. > >> >(some of the bigger small block Chevies also used a 2GC, but it is a > bigger > >> >version that will be too much for a stock 258). Often times you can >find > >> these > >> >babies real cheap - or even free! I had a guy give me one from a 283 > >> because > >> >he was going to a 4bbl and just wanted the thing out of his shop. > >> > > >> >Paul > >> > > >> ----------------------------------------------------- > >> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > >> ----------------------------------------------------- > >> > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > >http://im.yahoo.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #755 *************************