From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Mar 9 16:58:22 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, March 9 2000 Volume 01 : Number 767 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: FSJ Atrocities (steering fluid leak) Re: fsj: Re: Jeepsta Girl Re: fsj: Superdawg popped something... Re: fsj: Superdawg popped something... Re: fsj: Superdawg popped something... fsj: Flying Jeeps? Re: fsj: Re: Jeepsta Girl fsj: 91 Grand with 27k - link fsj: And another thing... fsj: Re: steering gear leak fsj: Re: Salvage Yards :-( fsj: Re: the V8 experience fsj: egr port... fsj: Re: Re: the V8 experience fsj: a penny, a washer and a tube... fsj: nice 86 Grand in Portland fsj: Jeep tours! Re: fsj: Jeep tours! fsj: Finally, a reporter with a little sense!!! Re: fsj: egr port... Re: fsj: Re: steering gear leak FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:36:10 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: FSJ Atrocities (steering fluid leak) thinking about this a bit more... if your steering box was leaking up by the input shaft you'd have some serious play... The hoses are the weak link... about $18 a piece... I'd try the hoses first... john At 04:22 PM 3/8/00 -0600, Dan Black wrote: >"Bob Bradfield" said: >{- My 83 Wag Ltd is leaking fluid from the steering gear, looks like where it >{- hooks to the steering shaft. Is there a rebuild kit? > >John already said this, but let me re-emphasize: Make sure it's not just >the hose. > >Mine was leaking from that same area a few months ago, and we cleaned up >everything and it still looked like it was coming from the box right >near where the steering shaft goes in. Got a used power steering box >and I had the old one completely disconnected, and then we finally >disconnected the hoses... and the return hose had a few nice slices in >them. The slices were so clean they looked like someone made them with >a knife, but there's no way they would've bothered making cuts in that >difficult a place. > >Anyway, the auto places were closed, so we got some yellow plumbing hose >from Lowe's that was just labeled "high pressure" and had the same inner >diameter and used that; it's still working fine, although I know to >watch as the weather gets warmer to make sure the outside doesn't >blister (don't know if home plumbing hose will stand up to heat in an >engine compartment in a Midwest summer). > >But the point is it could be the hoses and it would be almost impossible >to tell until you unhook them. So take them off first; they have to >come off if you replace the box anyway, so might as well make sure it's >not them first. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- > Hiroshima '45 Chernobyl '86 Windows '95 >-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - -------------- > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:48:11 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Jeepsta Girl A: The NP129 or NP128 xfercase from an AMC Eagle '82 to '88 will also work as a swap (You have to change the front yoke to get it rolling, but the NP129/128 have no low range, and '80/'81 are NP119 which is a NP219 w/o low range) or parts to fix yours if your case is still good. I have a '84 NP229 case for parts for $25 plus shipping (VC was blown, and it's been opened up. I have to compare it to a NV249 I have to see what's compatible and take pictures before selling it) If you change the front yoke, and modify the rear driveshaft to a slip yoke, you can bolt in a NV249 or NP/NV242 from a Grand Cherokee, but they have no vacuum lines to hook up! At 03:13 PM 3/8/00 EST, PR4545-at-aol.com wrote: Dear Sir: I have just finished restoring an '85 Grand Wagoneer. Then the transfer case went out. It is model # 229. Please advise me where I can get one. Thanks for your time Patricia in Houston They're all over the place... you just need to find a wrecking yard that has a locater service. Typical pricing should be in the $350 to $700 range for a good used NP229. Typical price up here in the NW at Olympic 4x4 is about $650 for an NP229, when they have 'em. An NP228 will also work. You might be able to use an NP219, but you'd have to make sure your front axle is engaged all the time. You might also consider having yours rebuilt if the case isn't bad. A new chain, new bearings and worst case, a new viscous coupler... A rebuild could run up a bit, plus labor for R&R (remove and replace). A chain kit runs about $150 or so... plus or minus a bit... ;) john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:50:47 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Superdawg popped something... A: That would be the welded cap for the EGR pipe I pointed out! You have the egr pipe to go with the intake I dropped off! John wrote: Coming back from lunch I down shifted because the car ahead of me was doing about 15 under the limit... and something went pop and it sounded like the exhaust done sprung a leak... I shut the radidio off and listened... yep. Definetly an exhaust leak, but not like the whole manifold or anything... So, when I got into my parking space, popped the hood and expected to see a cracked manifold or missing bolts or something... nothing, so I fired him up and then saw it... just right of the O2 sensor on the side of the manifold is this really nice, round opening... and it was blowing hot air... hmmm... interesting... was it a freezer type plug in there or a sensor or what? Any ideas on how best to fix it? Should I just get a freezer plug that would fit the hole and pound it in, or is this more serious, like there used to be an egr port there or something???? It's an 83 258... Jimmy B, whaddya think? (Hey, I took pictures of your setup Sunday, guess I'll take a look and put 'em up on my server in a bit... ) john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 15:00:24 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Superdawg popped something... At 02:50 PM 3/8/00 -0800, you wrote: >A: That would be the welded cap for the EGR pipe I pointed out! You have >the egr pipe to go with the intake I dropped off! cool... I guess I'll break out the JB Weld and... ;) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:17:19 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Superdawg popped something... A If there is still a piece of pipe there! Don't get it on the threads or you won't be able to run a EGR valve! (come summer time you'll need it to stop ping!) I wrote: That would be the welded cap for the EGR pipe I pointed out! You have the egr pipe to go with the intake I dropped off! cool... I guess I'll break out the JB Weld and... ;) john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:25:55 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Flying Jeeps? Maybe we should try this with a Jeep! Anyone got a GREEN one they can spare for a test model? http://www.para-cycle.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:27:08 -0800 From: Thunderbird Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Jeepsta Girl There is a yard here in Dallas (Grand Prairie) that has a lot of GWags. john wrote: > At 03:13 PM 3/8/00 EST, PR4545-at-aol.com wrote: > >Dear Sir: > > > >I have just finished restoring an '85 Grand Wagoneer. Then the transfer case > >went out. It is model # 229. Please advise me where I can get one. Thanks > for > >your time > > > >Patricia in Houston > > They're all over the place... you just need to find a wrecking yard that > has a locater service. Typical pricing should be in the $350 to $700 range > for a good used NP229. Typical price up here in the NW at Olympic 4x4 is > about $650 for an NP229, when they have 'em. An NP228 will also work. You > might be able to use an NP219, but you'd have to make sure your front axle > is engaged all the time. > > You might also consider having yours rebuilt if the case isn't bad. A > new chain, new bearings and worst case, a new viscous coupler... A rebuild > could run up a bit, plus labor for R&R (remove and replace). A chain > kit runs about $150 or so... plus or minus a bit... ;) > > john > ----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com > 67 J3000 (SJ) - 88 wagoneer (xj) - 83 J10 Stepside (SJ) > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- > > Brian 78 J10-4 4bbl/360/TH400/PTQT/D44/D44 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8/Sport "Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order." - --Ed Howdershelt ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 17:49:46 -0800 From: Clark Novak Subject: fsj: 91 Grand with 27k - link I forgot to include the link... just look at that woodgrain! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=277526960 Clark Novak 87 GW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:09:23 -0600 From: "Bob Bradfield" Subject: fsj: And another thing... Ok, doing the 3" TM body lift, the third bolt from the front on the PAS side just turns and turns. I think it had a welded nut, must've broken loose. How do I get to it? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > Clark Novak > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 7:50 PM > To: fsj-digest > Subject: fsj: 91 Grand with 27k - link > > > I forgot to include the link... just look at that woodgrain! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=277526960 > > Clark Novak > 87 GW > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:52:00 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: steering gear leak In a message dated 3/8/2000 11:26:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:50:40 -0600 > From: "Bob Bradfield" (snip) > My 83 Wag Ltd is leaking fluid from the steering gear, looks like where it > hooks to the steering shaft. Is there a rebuild kit? There is a rebuild kit but most people don't opt for it. The main reason is that if you do it properly, you have to do some complicated pre-load operations that require expensive special tools. A junkyard steering box can be a cheap solution, but you're gambling with the time you spend since it may not be any better. The junkyard will usually let you exchange them forever until you get a good one. You can get one from a discount auto parts store with a lifetime warranty for about $200. Quality control is terrible so you will spend the rest of your life replaceing them every few years. One from a junkyard would be a better investment. If you know your Wag is a keeper, then invest in an AGR? (ads in all the 4x4 mags) brand steering gear for around $300 and be done with it. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:52:23 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Salvage Yards :-( In a message dated 3/8/2000 11:26:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > From: > Sent: Monday, 06 March, 2000 13:56 > > > I have been hoping to find a Dana 53 axle to get the backing plates for my > > '73 J-4000. I am starting to think this axle was only used on Jeep Trucks > > before my '73 though and I am starting to have doubts of ever finding one. Those doubts are well founded. The Dana 53 was not used in alot of vehicles and was last used quite a while ago. Seems like this all started because brake parts were hard to find? I think Joe Schaefer (is he on this list?) has a '73 J-3000 with a Dana 53. He said recently that he was able to get everything he needed at Napa. I'm not sure if he's home these days or not. > > I have also been considering swaping axles with something else. The main > > thing holding me back on this is that I have never swaped axles before and > > the cost. (is $250 an axle/transfer case usual?) If it were considering an axle swap to solve this, I'd go straight for a Dana 60 out of a more recent J-truck. This way you might get away with only relocating spring perches. The Dana 60 full floater is pretty easy to work on. I have one on my F-250. I recently paid $250 for a front Dana 44. > > I am not sure what to look for/check/measure to make sure different axles > > would work before dropping a load of cash and getting it partially bolted > > on before finding out it either wont work or it will cost another load of > > cash to get it to work. I'm not sure how likely you are to find a Dana 60 from a later J-truck with the same gears. In my case, with a Wag, it was about impossible so I didn't worrry about it. The main measurements are total width between axle flanges, off-set of the differential, and spring perch locations. Joe Schaefer set up a "drive train database" in the Tech section of the IFSJA website. It might help you know which vehicles to look for. I've heard from a variety of sources that rear diff offsets from q-trac and Dana 20 equipped vehicles are close enough that its not really an issue. It might require a change in rear driveshaft length though. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:11:14 -0500 From: "Ray Drouillard" Subject: fsj: Re: the V8 experience > I never had any trouble with the two back plugs on that side and I don't > use a universal either? I always marveled that Jeep's engineers were kind > enough to put that nice big gap between the inner fender and the frame just > so you can stick your whole arm up there. I've had more trouble with the > passengers side rear plug because of the booster. It's difficult, but I always got them from on top. Once, I broke the #7 plug because I was clumsy and I was using a plug socket with a missing rubber thingie. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:09:30 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: egr port... Jimmy B was right, it's the EGR opening that's spewing noxious fumes, and sounds... ;) Yes, jim, the pipe came with the manifold you brought over... So, I'm gonna insert a plug of some sort and install the pipe. Or, gonna look through my plumbing supplies to see if I can find a plug. :) Did you notice what was in there before? Sure am glad you noticed it Sunday... I wouldn't have had a clue otherwise. Not a normal FSJ kind of thing to down shift and hear those kind of noises. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:17:32 -0500 From: "Ray Drouillard" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: the V8 experience I knew that there would be SOMEONE who couldn't resist! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kim Smith To: Ray Drouillard Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 12:03 AM Subject: Re: Re: the V8 experience > Now remember, we must have safe mechanicing at all times! NEVER twist the > wrench unless there is rubber thingie in the plug socket. ;-) > > kim > '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ray Drouillard" > To: "Michael Baxter" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, 08 March, 2000 20:11 > Subject: fsj: Re: the V8 experience > > > > > I never had any trouble with the two back plugs on that side and I don't > > > use a universal either? I always marveled that Jeep's engineers were > kind > > > enough to put that nice big gap between the inner fender and the frame > > just > > > so you can stick your whole arm up there. I've had more trouble with the > > > passengers side rear plug because of the booster. > > > > It's difficult, but I always got them from on top. Once, I broke the #7 > > plug because I was clumsy and I was using a plug socket with a missing > > rubber thingie. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:24:51 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: a penny, a washer and a tube... Does anyone else miss Johnny Carson? :) Superdawg is running quiet again. I took the EGR pipe I got from jimmy b this weekend, put a steel washer in the hole, then a penny, then the EGR pipe... applied wrench, only smashed my hand once... then for good measure took some wire (couldn't find my bailing wire) and twisted it around the O2 sensor and the pipe and hope that I can stop in time to keep from loosing the pipe should it come loose... :) Fwiw, no jimmy b, I didn't use no jb weld. ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 01:02:15 -0800 From: Clark Novak Subject: fsj: nice 86 Grand in Portland I was doing a websearch and found this clean-looking 86 GW in Portland, Oregon for $4995 on a dealer's lot... pretty metallic brown. Click the pic for a better view. http://www.baldwin-auto.com/page2.htm Clark Novak 87 GW ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 01:11:00 -0800 From: Clark Novak Subject: fsj: Jeep tours! There's been a lot of companies that do "Jeep Tours" in the western states, but I've never run across one that does 'em in FSJs! I just found this company called "Fun Time Jeep Tours" in Salida, Colorado, that does tours of the old mining towns and stuff... and they do it in Grand Wags! Check out the page... http://www.coloradovacation.com/tours/fun/page2.html I wonder if I could talk the wife into vacation on the Front Range this year? :) Clark Novak 87 GW ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 07:17:14 -0800 From: Thunderbird Subject: Re: fsj: Jeep tours! We should see if they want to join in on our invasion!!! Clark Novak wrote: > There's been a lot of companies that do "Jeep Tours" in the western states, > but I've never run across one that does 'em in FSJs! I just found this > company called "Fun Time Jeep Tours" in Salida, Colorado, that does tours of > the old mining towns and stuff... and they do it in Grand Wags! Check out > the page... http://www.coloradovacation.com/tours/fun/page2.html > I wonder if I could talk the wife into vacation on the Front Range this > year? :) > > Clark Novak > 87 GW > > > Brian 78 J10-4 4bbl/360/TH400/PTQT/D44/D44 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8/Sport "Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order." - --Ed Howdershelt ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:41:16 -0800 From: Thunderbird Subject: fsj: Finally, a reporter with a little sense!!! http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000308/bs/car_truck_crashes_1.html Check it out...Build better cars!!!! Brian 78 J10-4 4bbl/360/TH400/PTQT/D44/D44 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8/Sport "Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order." - --Ed Howdershelt ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:39:45 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: egr port... A: It just had a welded over cap (same as my air pipe on the exhaust below the EGR pickup) John wrote: Jimmy B was right, it's the EGR opening that's spewing noxious fumes, and sounds... ;) Yes, jim, the pipe came with the manifold you brought over... So, I'm gonna insert a plug of some sort and install the pipe. Or, gonna look through my plumbing supplies to see if I can find a plug. :) Did you notice what was in there before? Sure am glad you noticed it Sunday... I wouldn't have had a clue otherwise. Not a normal FSJ kind of thing to down shift and hear those kind of noises. :) john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:48:29 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: steering gear leak A: If I'm not mistaken, the AGR box is only 3 bolt, not the 4 bolt (there was some discussion awhile back on the other list) I have a good box from the '84 GW I parted (80K on the clock) for $50! =A0From: "Bob Bradfield" (snip) =A0My 83 Wag Ltd is leaking fluid from the steering gear, looks like where it =A0hooks to the steering shaft. Is there a rebuild kit? There is a rebuild kit but most people don't opt for it. The main reason is that if you do it properly, you have to do some complicated pre-load operations that require expensive special tools. A junkyard steering box can be a cheap solution, but you're gambling with the time you spend since it may not be any better. The junkyard will usually let you exchange them forever until you get a good one. You can get one from a discount auto parts store with a lifetime warranty for about $200. Quality control is terrible so you will spend the rest of your life replaceing them every few years. One from a junkyard would be a better investment. If you know your Wag is a keeper, then invest in an AGR? (ads in all the 4x4 mags) brand steering gear for around $300 and be done with it. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #767 *************************