From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Apr  4 22:40:40 2000
From: fsj-digest <owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net>


fsj-digest          Wednesday, April 5 2000          Volume 01 : Number 805



Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps
       Brian Colucci <versicom-at-juno.com>
       Digest Coordinator

Contents:

	fsj: THANKS FOR QUARTER PANEL SUGGESTIONS 
	Re: fsj: jimmy b's J10
	fsj: Flynn is in
	fsj: Scotty has joined us on 1FSJ!
	fsj: Anyone need some Alloys for an XJ? $400
	fsj: 401 rods in 4.6 stroker motor
	Re: fsj: 401 rods in 4.6 stroker motor
	Re: fsj: jimmy b's J10 
	Re: fsj: 401 rods in 4.6 stroker motor
	fsj: Re: 21 spline T-5 going into an NP208?
	fsj: Fw: THANKS FOR QUARTER PANEL SUGGESTIONS 
	Re: fsj:  shocks
	fsj: RE: T-xx and spline counts
	fsj: Re: 87 grand wagoneer 4wd shift problems

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:31:47 EDT
From: RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com
Subject: fsj: THANKS FOR QUARTER PANEL SUGGESTIONS 

Just ordered a pair of rear dog legs and rear quarter panels from Raybuck's. 
$265, including 3-day shipping for all 4 pieces which I thought was damn 
fair. Hopefully I'll get this finally addressed while I'm in Germany between 
the 12th and the 24th. (I've scheduled either an Audi S6 or TT Roadster for 
this trip - my turbodiesel Grand Cherokee in Germany story from last month is 
already posted up on the feature section of the JJournal.net site. It will 
appear in JP nad Truck TRend down the road this summer or fall.) 

After the rear quarters are fixed it will be the crash pad and headliner are 
next followed by fianlly attending to the oil leaks. My driveway looks like 
the Exxon Vadez was moored there. 

Thanks to everyone on the list that offered their suggestions, especially 
those of you that pointed me to Raybuck's.

Richard Truesdell
1964 Jeep Wagoneer
1969 Jeep Super Wagoneer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:20:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: john <john-at-virtual-cafe.com>
Subject: Re: fsj: jimmy b's J10

On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, James Blair wrote:

>-->I wrote:=20
>-->>>hauling! Shocks are important too. <<
>-->
>-->J: >I'm thinking of upgrading superdawg to Rancho 9000s, he's got a goo=
d
>-->set of 5000s... interested?=20
>-->
>-->A: How muchee? Swap? <G>=A0=A0

I don't know what the 5000s are worth, or what the new 9000s are gonna set =
me back,
or if I even want to do 9000s... (says john as a new thread on shocks opens
again for the bazillionith time... ;)

>-->
>-->A: Not sure which day yet. The other Rambler goes tomorrow AM, and I
>-->have to tow my '86 Dodge van to an alignment shop (no time to do the
>-->trans if I'm going to haul the other hulk off before the 12th) and I
>-->have to take my trailer and engine hoist to load the car on the trailer
>-->(it's about the size of your trailer, only HD)

so when's the CoS coming out to reinspect?  ;)

>-->If I get this all done right, I'll be able to save my Eagle too! I foun=
d
>-->another good running Eagle for parts for $300 that needs a tranny, and =
I
>-->just happen to have a 727 I'll be building. (Wanna take pics?)

question is will I have time to come down there and do it, or are you gonna
haul it up here and do it in the dirt?  My wife is overwhelming herself and
me with her kitchen remodel projects...  I need to finish some of my projec=
ts
as well...

pictures would be a a very, very good thing and I could write it up for FSJ
or JP too...  When are you going to do it?

john


    ----

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
        john-at-wagoneers.com   ****   http://wagoneers.com=20
              don't leave life without Jesus, please...
                   Snohomish, Washington USA   =20
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:43:43 EDT
From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com
Subject: fsj: Flynn is in

I think this refers to Errol Flynn.  He was "in" - in more ways than one.

Ben
  
>  John writes:
(snip)
>  > if this is true in my 83 J10, then I could bolt up my Aisin Warner 
30-80LE
>  > directly to my NP208 and I'm in like flynn (whatever that means... ;)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair)
Subject: fsj: Scotty has joined us on 1FSJ!

A: Allright! Good timing! Mt wife just bought a J truck, and we'll be
needing TWO sets of bumpers beamed over to us (as soon as we get rid of
the $24K mistake my wife bought) I've almost finished my design for a
quickly removable winch block, that will leave the bumper intact!

Hello, 
This is an automated email message to let you know that
jeep-at-rosenvick.com joined your 1FSJ group. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr
http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on
allexperts.com Pics: 
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:45:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair)
Subject: fsj: Anyone need some Alloys for an XJ? $400

http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P36+C239+R92923

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr
http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on
allexperts.com Pics: 
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 19:10:14 -0400
From: Michael Baxter <MBaxter-at-compuserve.com>
Subject: fsj: 401 rods in 4.6 stroker motor

Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) writes:

>> WOW! I almost made a HUGE blunder! 401 rods WON'T work in a 4.6L
stroker because the rod bigend is too big to work! =

<<

James, Just the bushing too big at 1.00"? You could have a machine shop
find a bushing that'll work for you.

Also, if the 390/401 rod is that close, you might want to look at the
Buick 425 rod too. That is if the longer rod would work with the stroker
crank. Here's some comparison data I posted and saved from a while back:

Below is a comparison between the Buick 425 rods and the AMC 390/401 rods=
.
The data has been collected from various 2nd hand sources (none complete)=
.
I think I'm going to order a set based on what I have now.

                            Buick                AMC

Length                      6.22"                5.86"
Big end width               .967"                .9185"
pin dia.                    1.00"                1.001"
crank journal dia.          2.2495"              2.2475"
beam offset                 .0085"               .012"
weight                      691 grams            798 grams


Both rods are machined from factory forgings. Obviously the Buick rods an=
d
a set of .010" under bearing halves would have to be machined down to
.9185" width. Then the AMC rod journals turned down and then honed/polish=
ed
.008" under instead of .010" (or .018 instead of .020", etc.). That's onl=
y
2 thousands.


 Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net
 http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter
 From Reno, NV USA on 04-Apr-2000

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:25:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair)
Subject: Re: fsj: 401 rods in 4.6 stroker motor

The big end is supposed to be 1/4" bigger diameter than a 360 rod (which
is what the 4.2L runs) I wanted the 401 rods because they are .050
shorter than the 360 rods, and would drop my compression ratio enough
that I wouldn't have to run premium gas, plus I'd get a little more
longevity out of the engine.

I wrote:
>>WOW! I almost made a HUGE blunder! 401 rods WON'T work in a 4.6L 
stroker because the rod bigend is too big to work! 

Michael Baxter wrote:
>James, Just the bushing too big at 1.00"? You could have a machine shop
find a bushing that'll work for you. 
Also, if the 390/401 rod is that close, you might want to look at the
Buick 425 rod too. That is if the longer rod would work with the stroker
crank. Here's some comparison data I posted and saved from a while back: 
Below is a comparison between the Buick 425 rods and the AMC 390/401
rods. The data has been collected from various 2nd hand sources (none
complete). I think I'm going to order a set based on what I have now. 
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
                              Buick =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 AMC 
Length =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 6.22" =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
=A0 =A0 5.86"
Big end width =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 .967" =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0.9185"
pin dia. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1.00" =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
=A0 =A0 1.001"
crank journal dia. =A0 =A02.2495" =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A02.2475"
beam offset =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 .0085" =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
=A0.012"
weight=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 691 grams =A0    798 gr
Both rods are machined from factory forgings. Obviously the Buick rods
and a set of .010" under bearing halves would have to be machined down
to .9185" width. Then the AMC rod journals turned down and then
honed/polished .008" under instead of .010" (or .018 instead of .020",
etc.). That's only 2 thousands. 
=A0=A0Michael Baxter, 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr
http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on
allexperts.com Pics: 
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:12:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair)
Subject: Re: fsj: jimmy b's J10 

Does your Dodge trans/NP transfercase grind when shifting? Read below.

A: I still have the extra long Trailmaster shocks I got from Jerry which
will do for now (they were for Elmo). I'm still not sure which day yet
I'll get up there. Still waiting to hear if he still has the car. The
other Rambler is gone now and I have to fix my '86 Dodge van's tranny to
take it to an alignment shop now, because they don't want to push it and
I have to get rid of the parts van AND my Eagle wagon! :^(

John: 
>so when's the CoS coming out to reinspect? ;) 

A: On the 12th. Spit and polish on standby!

John:
>question is will I have time to come down there and do it, or are you
gonna haul it up here and do it in the dirt? 

A: I just need a little bench space (or if the weather is nice, I can do
it in the back of my box). Found a '90 XJ today and he wants $1200 for
all the drivetrain (4.0/AW4/NP242) with EFI and harness so I'll probably
go that route on Blackie, but the driveshafts will be a problem (I need
a lathe!) The 727 and NP208 (that you heard grinding) are nearly shot
(727's clutches are fried together, causing the output shaft to spin,
even in neutral, NOTE: Which is causing the grind that I have to shut
the truck off to get the xfercase to shift!) 

John:
>My wife is overwhelming herself and me with her kitchen remodel
projects... I need to finish some of my projects as well... 
pictures would be a a very, very good thing and I could write it up for
FSJ or JP too... When are you going to do it? 

A: I will do the complete drivetrain swap here, but I'll bring my 727
trans up for rebuild later this week or next. (I'll also be converting
it from non-lockup to lockup) Since I'm getting rid of the Eagle, I
guess I'll be selling the trans afterwards!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr
http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on
allexperts.com Pics: 
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 21:25:53 -0400
From: Michael Baxter <MBaxter-at-compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: fsj: 401 rods in 4.6 stroker motor

Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) writes:

>> The big end is supposed to be 1/4" bigger diameter than a 360 rod (whi=
ch
is what the 4.2L runs) I wanted the 401 rods because they are .050 shorte=
r
than the 360 rods, and would drop my compression ratio enough that I
wouldn't have to run premium gas, plus I'd get a little more longevity ou=
t
of the engine.
<<

Yea, the big end is not quite .25" but, big enough. It's 2.09" for the
304/360 vs. 2.25" for the 390/401. And the 390/401 rods are only about
.015" shorter.

How about a 5.7" rod? That might be too short at about .170" shorter than=

a 360 rod? But the smaller small-block chevy rod is very close to the
304/360 rod.

I have a bunch of rod specs. at home. I'll look tonight and see if
there's anything closer than a SBC rod.


 Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net
 http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter
 From Reno, NV USA on 04-Apr-2000

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 22:22:28 EDT
From: OrigamiTB-at-aol.com
Subject: fsj: Re: 21 spline T-5 going into an NP208?

In a message dated 4/4/00 11:02:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, john 
<john-at-virtual-cafe.com> wrote:

> I could bolt up my Aisin Warner 30-80LE directly to my
> NP208 and I'm in like flynn (whatever that means... ;)

The only thing that comes to mind is "In Like Flint", the 1967 sequel to "Our 
Man Flint" (1965), with James Coburn and Lee J. Cobb.

FSJ content: no FSJ in either of those movies.

++ Cornel Ormsby ++
watchin' the movies in Vegas

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 22:57:16 -0600
From: "Kim Smith" <wmksmith-at-bigsky.net>
Subject: fsj: Fw: THANKS FOR QUARTER PANEL SUGGESTIONS 

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com>
To: <fsj-at-digest.net>
Sent: Tuesday, 04 April, 2000 13:31
Subject: fsj: THANKS FOR QUARTER PANEL SUGGESTIONS


> After the rear quarters are fixed it will be the crash pad and headliner
are
> next followed by fianlly attending to the oil leaks. My driveway looks
like
> the Exxon Vadez was moored there.

Well, that's what you get for leaving the third mate at the helm and getting
drunk in your cabin! :-)
Of course, you know that the idea of a leak free Jeep, esp. an FSJ,
is a delusion that could get you committed to the cuckoo's nest??? <VBG>

kim
'80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 22:13:19 -0700
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com>
Subject: Re: fsj:  shocks

At 08:24 PM 4/4/00 -0500, Jay Olive wrote:
>Be sure and check Summit while the 4 for 3 deal is running - makes the
9000's about $50
>each.  Still not cheap though...
>
>Jay

I think I'm gonna look into doing the Old Man Emu shocks again... The
set of 5000s I have on Superdawg came off of Old Blue. :)  I had an extra
set of OME shocks from my XJ lift and put 'em on my SJ and wow...  what
a difference over the Ranchos...  However, the Rancho 9000s are really
nice because they're adjustable... allowing me to dial in the ride based
on the load... hmmm...  

I think I'm gonna check on the OME prices... they ain't cheap though
either... 
I think the ones in my xj kit were $65 each...  but the ones on the little
wagoneer
have been there for over 2 years and are still doing fine...

john
- -----------------------------------------------------
 john-at-wagoneers.com      http://www.wagoneers.com
     ...don't leave life without Jesus, please!
 Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 22:10:15 -0700
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com>
Subject: fsj: RE: T-xx and spline counts

At 06:58 AM 4/4/00 -0400, Dennis M. \"Doc\" Fariello wrote:
>
>	The T-5 isn't known for durability, my friend.  I wouldn't recommend
>putting one in an FSJ.

If it weren't there already, I wouldn't have. :) I've heard of the problems,
and even had a used 258/t-5 out of a wrangler that I bought for the NP231.  I
sold the engine/trans... I could feel that the T-5 wasn't that good in just
playing
around with it.  It didn't feel very solid.  Superdawg's 5 speed has a
better feel, we're
guessing it's a World Class T-5.  Brad Seevers was telling me that the
specs between the two
 is significantly different.

The PO of my Stepside tells me that she had it rebuilt special.  
>From what history I've gleaned some guy on the south side of Seattle builds 
up T-5's and the Jeep dealer knew
about him.  So current theory is that it's a World Class T-5.  I've flogged
Superdawg a few times and if it were the wimpy version of the T-5 I'm
sure I would have broken it.  I've mauled a tranny before and am confident
in my destructive abilities... ;)

So, until it breaks, I'm suspecting I lucked out and have the World Class
version of the T-5 and loving it.   FWIW, the gal paid almost $3,000 for
the tranny and new clutch.  I haven't taken anything apart to count splines
or even look at the top cover to get a part number for Brad.

If it breaks I'll drop in the 4.0L and Aisin Warner 4spd auto I bought
a few years ago.  I'll either need to change the output shaft to 23 spline,
or get a different xfr case.  Or, LW, I may have one of those legendary
setups with 21 splines... it's possible, but probably not likely.  I
don't think 21 splines went into FSJs, even in 83.  But reshafting the
AW4 isn't too big of a deal from what I've heard.  Either way I'm probably
looking at three to five bills to make the swap.  But the swap will get
me fuel injection, an automatic and probably 20mpg...

Right now I'm only getting about 14mpg...  the Clifford intake and Holley
carb are not exactly a fuel efficient setup... but ohhh boy does Superdawg
howl when I get on him...  you would think it's a V8 under the hood and
not a 258.  It definetly has more get up and go than Old Blue did, even
when I put an Edelbrock intake/carb on him... (Old blue had 2.72's, Superdawg
has 3.31's, makes a significant difference.)

>>	Timex is, as you put it, in sick bay.  Trannies, transfer cases, and
>driveshafts lying in the bed.

does pep boys sell coveralls?  how about rubber gloves?

>>	You shouldn't be getting worse mileage with the Clifford intake and the
>Holley...  you should be getting BETTER mileage, unless you like to put your
>foot into it a lot.  You might not have it tweaked correctly, that's
>entirely possible.  Also, Holleys most definitely aren't known for economy.

it's possible that it's not dialed in correctly... No, I've actually been
pretty mellow with it.  I thought about rejetting and all, but it's a hassle
and even James Blair doesn't think we can do much better with the economy,
neither does another mechanic friend who helped me with Old blue...

I've tried keeping my rpm's down and taking it easy... did get better mileage,
but only around 14.  I am running 31's, but I'm even allowing for a 6% error
in my mileage...

>I think a Clifford manifold and TBI setup would be a fairly economical
>possible alternative to the Mopar EFI kit, at least until one can come up
>with $1,000.  Then again, isn't the TBI kit pretty close to that?  Hmm.

I had the Holley TBI, analog setup, bought it from a guy, went to install it
and couldn't get it to fit!  I called Holley and they said ya gotta use the
stock manifold... so I sold the used TBI to the Jeep dealer for a project
they were shipping to Alaska.  I'd heard a few horror stories about the Holley
TBI and decided against using it.

Tom Anhalt did the Mopar TBI kit and is happy with it... but before I spent
that kind of money I'll just use my 4.0l. :)

If you know of another carb I could use on the Clifford Manifold I'd be
willing
to give it a try.  I was talking with James Blair Sunday about it and the
consensus
was that the large runners on the Clifford Intake are designed for higher
rpms (2,500 and up)
so there wasn't much that could be done to help the economy.  I was also
reading somewhere
that the narrower intake runners on the stock 258 are much better for low
rpm torque.
(what's peak torque at?  210 ft lbs at 1800 rpm is what I've seen...) 

Anyway, James snagged another dead Eagle and may have all the linkages I
need to put
the manifold I got from him on along with the carb I bought off of ebay.  I
still need
a stock air cleaner and the wiring to control the manifold heater setup...
and an intake
gasket...  It sure would be nice to get better mileage, especially with
fuel costs the
way they are.

Either way, I'm loving my J10 Stepside...  I sold my 81 300D because I'd
rather drive it!
Fritz was a very nice Benz, low mileage, ultra clean.  I just couldn't see
paying money to
insure it, and those old Benz's are like FSJ's, they just don't take well
to sitting around. :)
Stuff just quits working.  

I can't tell you how happy I am NOT to have to mess around with a leaky 360
V8 or a rear window. :)
(Of course the valve cover on my 258 is one of those plastic specials... ;)
 I'm kicking myself
that I didn't keep the Clifford valve cover on that yj's 258 I sold...
arggghhhh... I don't
want to pay $150 for a valve cover!!!  

See ya in a couple weeks... let me know on the coverall / glove situation
down there. ;)
Otherwise I'll pick up a set before I head down. :)  

What year is Timex again?  I've got an MR 253 dated March 84, it has a
section on the T-176
and another on the NP208... You want maybe I should photocopy those
sections??? ;)

BTW, I'm gonna cc the fsj list because this is the most technical FSJ
content I've
typed in about two weeks... ;)

john



>-Doc
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com]
>> Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 10:56 PM
>> To: fariello-at-evcom.net
>> Subject: T-xx and spline counts
>>
>>
>> At 09:48 PM 4/3/00 -0400, Dennis M. \"Doc\" Fariello wrote:
>> >
>> >	I've got the T-18, I've got all the major parts...
>> it's going in :)
>> >
>> >-Doc
>>
>> cool.  Is Timex mobile right now?  Or is she in sick bay? ;)
>> I don't have a tranny jack either, I borrow one from a
>> mechanic friend,
>> although his isn't that good either... I think I'll rent one next time
>> I do such work...
>>
>> I've got a spare 4.0L and Aisin Warner 4speed auto... if my NP208
>> in Superdawg is 21 spline I could use it to replace my 258/T-5 (I'd
>> heard that the T-5 could be a 21 spline!).    I'd love to get a
>> fuel injected 4.0L Six in my Stepside... the Clifford intake and
>> Holley carb make him as thirsty as one of those boat anchor 360s... :)
>>
>> Otherwise to make the 4.0/4sp at swap
>>  I'll have to swap out my output shaft in the Aisin Warner
>> to a 23 spline...  or swap out the xfr case for a 21 spline input
>> shaft...  Either way I'm looking at spending more money... :(  I've
>> been gathering up pieces for about 4 years now... only need the TCU
>> (transmission control unit) and the transfer case solution and I'll
>> have almost everything I need.
>>
>> Of course, I'd still rather have a Diesel. :)
>>
>> john
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>  john-at-wagoneers.com      http://www.wagoneers.com
>>      ...don't leave life without Jesus, please!
>>  Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>
- -----------------------------------------------------
 john-at-wagoneers.com      http://www.wagoneers.com
     ...don't leave life without Jesus, please!
 Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold...
- -----------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 22:22:08 -0700
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com>
Subject: fsj: Re: 87 grand wagoneer 4wd shift problems

At 08:54 PM 4/4/00 -0700, Sue and Ken Naffziger wrote:
>Hi John;
>>I saw your web page while surfing and thought you might be able to help me.
>My 87 Grand Wagoneer began having shift problems when shifting out of 4WD
>mode.  When I shift to 2WD from 4WD I hear a clash of gears.  This began
>suddenly and seems to happen often.  I only shift when the car is standing
>still now.  I checked the Vacuum from the metal tubes in the engine
>compartment to the vacuum servo at the transfer case.  It holds vacuum.  Any
>ideas as to how to stop the clash?
>
>Any help would be appreciated.
>>			Thanks
>			Ken Naffziger <Naffziger-at-worldnet.att.net>

this is a bit different... usually it's going from 2wd to 4wd that you hear
the noises. :)  

Can you tell if it's coming from the Xfr case or the front axle?  Wait, in 87
they'd done away with the front axle disconnect on Selectrac, right?  

How many miles?  Have you ever had the fluid changed in the NP229?  How's
the chain,
is it getting slack?

I've got an 88 xj wagoneer with the newer style selectrac, an NP242, and
thinking about
it, I get some gear noise when coming out of fulltime 4wd to 2wd... of
course my rig
has almost 200,000 miles on the original driveline so noises aren't
unusual... ;)

The real issue is does it actually go into 2wd, and then 4wd?  Easy test.
If it does
then it's probably ok...  BUT, I'd check the slack in the chain... you
could probably
open the top plug for filling and try and feel the tension on the chain.

The other thing that comes to mind is that if your tranny mount is sagging
it could
cause things to bind up just a bit and make it make noise where it hadn't
before... check
the tranny mount.  

While you're down there and all greasy, check your U-joints and motor
mounts...  :)

I wouldn't be terribly concerned, but I would check it all out.

john
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