From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon May 1 09:13:50 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, May 1 2000 Volume 01 : Number 833 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: 4350: It works! fsj: thanks fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list fsj: HD steering U-joints and EFI revisited fsj: Into The Black Hole fsj: Tailgate alignment fsj: Re: Into The Black Hole fsj: Re: Into The Black Hole FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 00:42:16 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: 4350: It works! Thanks to a host of FSJ friends, my budget 4 barrel project has paid off. I gambled on some used parts and my own ability to troubleshoot, but I turned the key and it started and ran. Actually, I drove it to the parts store to return the 2 barrel to 4 barrel carb adapter . Seems I didn't trust my own labeling on parts as I took them off and put a wire back in the wrong place. I had a bad few hours until I decided to check for spark. It probably ought to have a rebuild kit, but it's not bad for just bolting on a totally unknown carb. Thanks list. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 01:39:53 EDT From: DizzyCow31-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: thanks thanks Cornel, i was just looking up cj-5 parst as the mail came in . Btw dose any one have a four weel 727 tranny out of a 80-91 sj? if so ill gladly trade or buy(keep in mind i olny spent 300.00 on two postal jeeps). of course I'll the front axl from a cj and a dana 20 TC but the 727 will keep me from haveing to swap in a four speed manual(evan though ide rather have one anyway) thanks and again any help would be great chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 02:15:00 -0400 From: Richard Welty Subject: fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 1/14/2000, rpw; update to special note on compuserve situation] Special Notes 1) messagemedia.com appears to have some significant spam issues, and are blocked from access to this server. 2) Compuserve has had several mail relays added to the Relay Spam Stopper; for this reason, Compuserve customers may have difficulty sending email to the server. The proper solution for this problem is for Compuserve to fix their mail servers. Compuserve apparently plans to fix this problem on or about 1/18/2000. Compuserve customers should direct their concerns to Compuserve support. Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? formats such as html, rtf, and the like, are blocked as they don't work well in digest format and annoy many readers of the digest. most kinds of attachments are blocked for similar reasons -- binaries, word documents, and excel spreadsheets are simply not good things to send to the digest. virtual business cards (a Netscape "feature") are blocked as well. you need to turn off any special features of this type to get your mail through the digest. e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, the following phrases in subject lines are automatically blocked: Important Message From growth stocks free calling card direct e-mail secrets Merchant Account Mass Marketing make money fast Pediatric advice Email ? Million People what "they" don't want are you being investigated the actual list is quite a bit longer; i think you get the idea. h) are you using "funky" character sets? unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts, national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc. i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply? You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length, and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is intentional. j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay? Krusty Motorsports (aka digest.net) subscribes to the "MAPS Realtime Blackhole List" and the "MAPS Relay Spam Stopper". These lists block email from known sources of spam (either ISPs with bad attitudes or policies, or badly managed mail environments.) Interested parties should visit http://www.mail-abuse.org/ for full details. k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"? If so, you may be running afoul of MAPS (see j above). MAPS returns an error code of 550, which is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as "user unknown". If you know the IP address of your ISPs mail relay, you can go to the maps web site and test to see if it is on the RBL or the RSS. Additionally, the "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail traffic on digest.net are now visible at http://www.digest.net/rejectlog.01 Finally, some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.) 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? a) are you using the right address? send to majordomo-at-digest.net, and the command format is unsubscribe list-name my-email-address b) has your email address changed? majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone-at-BarneyCo.com was once fflintstone-at-bedrock.org. you can check this with the which command (see 1.b) above for details) 3. How do I post to the list? You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 02:26:49 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: HD steering U-joints and EFI revisited "Fitzgearld, Fredric" writes: >> The last time I checked Mr. Baxter was working on something (with the Ford system?). How's that going??? << Still working on it. I've become a little concerned that the Ford EEC-IV will drop into open-loop with very little extra engine load beyond normal= cruise engine loading. Which means you'd get great mileage out on the flats, but hills, headwinds and towing will hurt the overall average in a= big way. One of the aftermarket companies is beta testing a brand new ECM. It slices, it dices...:-). Really, It reportedly has 8 injector drivers (can= be sequential on a V-8), has an adaptive strategy (limp home mode). controls the ignition and is fully laptop data tunable. And is relatively= cheap compared to current, less sophisticated, aftermarket ECMs. We'll se= e what the final price turns-out to be. The projected prices have an interesting way of creeping-up. The only draw back I see right now is there are no plans to offer a wiring harness. Meaning each will have to roll their own. Personally that= doesn't scare me, but it might scare others. I just spent a lot of wiring= time on our airplane and one of my motorcycles so, I'm "in tune." :-) I wouldn't recommend waiting for me. We can't even find the time to finish installing the Superflow 901 engine dyno. Hard to imagine I'll hav= e a SEFI AMC V-8 up and running anytime soon. But I will someday. I made a resolution to finish just one project for once in my life and this is it.= It's just not a priority mainly because my Chero. runs so good now. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 30-Apr-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 10:04:38 -0400 From: "B. COLUCCI" Subject: fsj: Into The Black Hole Greetings Chip & The Rest Of The FSJ World! For what it is worth the USS GW is an 89 so I've been there and done all of that. 90 GW Put a few more miles on the recently acquired "Black Hole" today First, I ran out of gas today. Gauge doesn't work too well, stays pegged above full until it's ready to quit, then falls quickly and ran out around stated 1/2 tank. Friend came to the rescue as I was only 10 miles from home, got 4 gallons in, then another 12 at the pump. Book says I should have 20 gallon tank. ***That's about right. - - - Can I access the fuel sender from under the back seat? Haynes indicates later vehicles don't require tank removal. ***Correct. Patience is important here. On many rigs you will find that the access cove has a ring of rust holding it to the floor. The attachment screws are small and usually there connection hole in the floor has rusted away. Or at least has enough rust on the screw that it is hard to remove. I have found that placing some slight upward pressure from under the screw head with a small flat bladed screw driver while you loosen the screw with your philips driver usually works well to remove the screws. This is where you will also find your problem. Your sender is probably OK. What has happened is that your ground wire may have come unplugged from the sender. Or maybe both wires are connected. Then you have a dirt and corrosion problem. Here is how to test your gauge. Disconnect both wires from the sender. Put the ignition switch in the RUN position. If memory serves the gauge should read full. Turn off the ignition switch. Place a wire jumper between the two connectors. Then turn the Ignition switch to the run position. This should give your fuel gauge the opposite reading. I think that is empty. If it is empty your low fuel light should also come on. If the test fails clean those connectors well with some good quality electric contact cleaner. You do not want the stuff from some place like radio shack. You want the stuff that is like $10 a can. Once you have really cleaned those connectors try the above test again. You should be OK. If not you have a damaged wire that will have to be traced; or get ready to shell out about $45 for a new gauge from your local Jeep dealer. Assuming this all works then you need to thoroughly clean the connectors on the tank side with your contact cleaner dampened shop rag and reconnect the wires. Now start the Jeep. You should now have an accurate fuel level reading. You will probably find the gauge to be quite twitchy when you drive; but this way you know that the gas is back there sloshing around. If the gauge is fine but the low fuel light does not come on. That is an easy fix. It is not a soddered on LED like in the modern luxo-cruisers; it is a regular instrument cluster light bulb that can be replaced by pulling the cluster. - - - Is the sender related to the fuel pickup/feed? I.E. could my feed line be a little short? ***Yes it is all one unit that is removed from the top of the tank. There is a filter sock on the end that tends to disintegrate over time. That is why you have an external fuel filter under the hood. I think we lose to many fuel pumps when they are clogged by sock trash. IMHO. Your feed line length is OK I'm sure. Just leave that entire unit in the tank. Once you pull it out you are asking for trouble. Second-and-a-half - oil pressure sender or gauge would seem to bind somewhere around 35-40psi, sometimes it won't go above that unless I really punch it, then it won't drop down below that. I'm getting used to it, but has anyone else experienced this with the '86-'91 setup, and is it the sender or the gauge? ***It could be your sender. They fail easily. Low oil pressure is the norm for these AMC 360 motors. The gauge should be OK these later rigs all have quality USA made Stewart Warner gauges. Third - where is the rear wash/wipe glass-up safety switch? Wash and wipe on rear window inoperative, fuse present and good. *** OK are you sitting down? This is going to hurt. It probably is the motor that has gone south on you. Sense they were only used from 89-91 on this vehicle no after market company has made a knock off of the motor; because it is not profitable for them. They want to make motors that will fit 3 or 4 different types of cars. So the only place to get one is direct from a dealer. Be prepared to spend between $300 -$400 for this item, if they can even get it. At last check the Chrysler national parts locator showed 0 available in any of the warehouses. This means that your only hope is to find one on a dealers shelf. Before we get to scary let's dig into the Black Hole. (you figure out if I meant the location or the proper vehicle name. ) You will have to lower your tailgate, find an assistant, and a lawn chair. Remove the carpet and the access panel. Keep track of all of those philips head screws. Place the lawn chair behind the tailgate. Turn the key to ACCESSORY. Have your assistant push the dash switch up to raise the window and hold it there, unless you scream STOP! Nothing should happen. If that window starts moving at this point SCREAM STOP! This would indicate that your tailgate safety switch is malfunctioning. You now stand on the drivers side of the tailgate with your right hand poised to catch the glass. With your left hand activate the safety switch momentarily and release. This will give you a feel for how fast that window moves. The switch is on the side of the tailgate and looks like a hockey stick. It is easily moved with your finger. Watch through the access hole in the tailgate and eject the window only until the window base clears the top edge of the access hole. When at this point have your assistant turn off the key and release the switch. Then they can come behind the Jeep and sit in the lawn chair. While seated in the chair rest the tailgate on their legs and have them hold the glass level with both hands. Any helper over 14 years old should be able to do this for an extended period without discomfort. Now you need to get a good twelve volt power source like a spare car battery and connect some test lines to it. Inside the tailgate you will see the pancake style motor at the top with a wire harness coming off of it. Disconnect this harness at its 4 way connector. Now following your wiring diagram in your service manual hook up your battery to the motor and see if it runs. Hopefully it does. THis would mean that you simply would have to trace the wire harness out of the tailgate towards the front and fix and damaged wiring. If the motor moans but fails to move then you have a corroded drive shaft in the motor that needs to be disassembled and cleaned. You can do this yourself with some tech tips from Ray Droulliard who is also on the list. Want to know the history of your motor? This is why nobody rebuilds the thing. Nobody claims knowledge of its existence. The motor was designed by Renault in France. They in turn shipped the parts to Canada for final assembly. The completed motor was then sold to Chrysler of Canada who exported it to Toledo for final installation in you FSJ. I think I saw something from you the other day asking about the keyless entry. Another Orphaned system. It was Designed and manufactured by Renault in France. There are no after market equivalents or parts. All replacement parts must come from France. This is about a 3 week turn around time once you place your order at your local Jeep dealer. You can order new Key fob remotes. They are about $40 each. To do this you have to remove your overhead console. The remove the protective cover from the IR sensor area. The IR sensor is that small black dome that peaks out of the console ahead of the rear reading lamps. Once you have the sensor board in hand there is a code number on the control chip on a piece of paper. You will need that number to order the correct new key fob remotes. Need/want stuff category: - - - driver door dome light switch (3 pin plug) ***Use your new contact cleaner on it. It will work great. I do mine once or twice a year. Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post End Transmission........................................ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:24:48 -0400 From: "Alan Barkan" Subject: fsj: Tailgate alignment Hi all, I've been a watcher for about 4 months. I'm located in Richmond, VA and although I've no basis for comparison, there seems to be a large number of GWs on the roads in the Richmond area. Purchased an 88 GW end of Jan, '00. Problem (immediate): tailgate is out of alignment so one side is too close to body and won't close. If, from the outside of wagon, I use a screw driver to pry up the outside edge of hinge on side out of wack, then gate closes. I've tried messing with bolts under plate on body side of tailgate, but I'm like a blind person trying to adjust the color on a television. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks, Alan Barkan alan-at-barkan.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 10:59:13 -0400 From: "William C.W. Lamb" Subject: fsj: Re: Into The Black Hole >***Correct. Patience is important here. On many rigs you will find >that the access cove has a ring of rust holding it to the floor. The >attachment screws are small and usually there connection hole in the >floor has rusted away. Or at least has enough rust on the screw that it >is hard to remove. I have found that placing some slight upward >pressure from under the screw head with a small flat bladed screw driver >while you loosen the screw with your philips driver usually works well >to remove the screws. This is where you will also find your problem. >Your sender is probably OK. What has happened is that your ground wire >may have come unplugged from the sender. Or maybe both wires are >connected. Then you have a dirt and corrosion problem. I hope I will find that to be the case! >Here is how to test your gauge. Disconnect both wires from the sender. >Put the ignition switch in the RUN position. If memory serves the gauge >should read full. Turn off the ignition switch. Place a wire jumper >between the two connectors. Then turn the Ignition switch to the run >position. This should give your fuel gauge the opposite reading. I >think that is empty. If it is empty your low fuel light should also >come on. Good. >- - Is the sender related to the fuel pickup/feed? I.E. could my feed >line be >a little short? > > >***Yes it is all one unit that is removed from the top of the tank. >There is a filter sock on the end that tends to disintegrate over time. >That is why you have an external fuel filter under the hood. I think we >lose to many fuel pumps when they are clogged by sock trash. IMHO. Your >feed line length is OK I'm sure. Just leave that entire unit in the >tank. Once you pull it out you are asking for trouble. As DSPO replaced (or had replaced) the sender, who knows. Trouble is subjective. >***It could be your sender. They fail easily. Low oil pressure is the >norm for these AMC 360 motors. The gauge should be OK these later rigs >all have quality USA made Stewart Warner gauges. Mechanical toolbox oil pressure gauge states perfectly good oil pressure. I've had GWs with low OP. This is not the case here. >Third - where is the rear wash/wipe glass-up safety switch? Wash and >wipe >on rear window inoperative, fuse present and good. > > >*** OK are you sitting down? This is going to hurt. It probably is the >motor that has gone south on you. If the washer worked, I might just believe that. All I want to know is where the safety switch is for the wiper. >- - driver door dome light switch (3 pin plug) > >***Use your new contact cleaner on it. It will work great. I do mine >once or twice a year. If it weren't physically broken, I would have done that already. ___________________________________________________ Cheers- William "Chip" Lamb West of Sweden SAAB Charles City, VA. http://www.wmsbrg.com/sweden/ ___________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 11:35:58 -0400 From: "B. COLUCCI" Subject: fsj: Re: Into The Black Hole Greetings Again! "William C.W. Lamb" wrote: >As DSPO replaced (or had replaced) the sender, who knows. Trouble is subjective. If it looks like it fits I'm sure it's the right one underneath the cover. I would definitely believe the corrosion problem on the wires and contacts. It can sneak up over-night. I've seen it. > > >***It could be your sender. They fail easily. Low oil pressure is the > >norm for these AMC 360 motors. The gauge should be OK these later rigs > >all have quality USA made Stewart Warner gauges. > > Mechanical toolbox oil pressure gauge states perfectly good oil pressure. > I've had GWs with low OP. This is not the case here. Then replace the sender it is the cheaper of the two possible parts. > > > >Third - where is the rear wash/wipe glass-up safety switch? Wash and > >wipe > >on rear window inoperative, fuse present and good. That is the brass looking on the outside of the tailgate on the drivers side. I think you might be thinking of a small roller contact switch. I think there is one inside of the tailgate. That locks out the motor. It is near the top. If I am remembering correctly that such a switch exists. It is just a matter of tracking the four way connector from the motor. > > > > > > >*** OK are you sitting down? This is going to hurt. It probably is the > >motor that has gone south on you. > > If the washer worked, I might just believe that. All I want to know is > where the safety switch is for the wiper. You really have to do the direct power hookup to the motor to get your results. There are so many wires that go under the rig to the tailgate. The access into the bottom of the tailgate can even fray these wires. Now about your washer conclusion that is incorrect in this case. These are FSJ's things do not work like normal cars. Your rear washer is controlled by the timer circuit inside the wiper motor pancake housing. So if the motor overloaded and damaged the timer board it may have killed your washer. > > > >- - driver door dome light switch (3 pin plug) > > > >***Use your new contact cleaner on it. It will work great. I do mine > >once or twice a year. > > If it weren't physically broken, I would have done that already. Darned plastic plungers on those switches. Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post End Transmission........................................ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #833 *************************