From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun May 7 20:57:56 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, May 7 2000 Volume 01 : Number 841 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: xj: Re: Turbo 240D? Diesel JEEP? :) fsj: AW trannies... fsj: found the J20 you mentioned... fsj: temptation from the wrong coast... fsj: Re: AW trannies... fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q Re: fsj: Re: AW trannies... fsj: SW OH FSJ Fest!!!! fsj: Re: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q fsj: Re: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q fsj: Re: SW OH FSJ Fest!!!! fsj: Re: My 3 Sons (graphic descriptions) Re: fsj: major amperage... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 14:02:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: Turbo 240D? Diesel JEEP? :) A: I'll have the '91 AW4 I just bought in Blackie by this week's end, and my 6 cyl Stroker is coming together soon for Elmo, then another AW4 will be going in there too! I'll be running LPG though instead of diesel or gas (anyone want to join a class action against WA state to remove the $1500 alternate fuel vehicle yearly tax!) At 07:20 AM 5/5/00 -0500, jslash-at-execpc.com wrote: John, =A0=A0=A0=A0I am a member of the diesel-benz list but forgot that I needed to send the e-mail from my home account instead of my work account. Sorry :) no problem... Thanks for the info anyway! Another thought... I'm also a Jeep enthusiest. I WANT a diesel Jeep. Any thoughts on how to import one from Europe. OR better yet derail one before it get's exported! I heard from a gentleman in Europe that the diesel Cherokee's are actually made here in the states and then exported never to be sold here. Somewhere in Arizona I hear. Got any friends at Jeep? ;) Thanks again! Jim/ Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI Jeep had a Turbo Diesel in the XJ Cherokee from 1985 until 1987. I had one. Parts for the Renault engine were expensive, it was underpowered, but otherwise nice... If you get a full size jeep you could drop in any Diesel you want. :) I've been Diesel Dreaming for years... had a plan to drop a targetmaster 5.7L in my 81 Wagoneer... then a 6.2L... Thoughts of using a 300D in an FSJ also have passed between my ears... My current daydreams include a 6.5L TD in my 83 J10. The problem is I've done engine swaps/conversions before. You have to hassle with inspections for emissions, sometimes have to retitle the rig... and even after all that there are always little problems that persist in the implementation... It's never quite right... you expend all your energy chasing the problems out and sell it to a guy who fixes the problem in 30 minutes and loves the rig for the rest of his life while you try to buy it back without success... rofl... I'm going through the thought process of dropping a Jeep XJ 4.0L into my 83 J10 to replace the stock 258 (4.2L). For the most part it's an easy conversion. It'll require a different transfer case, or output shaft on my tranny, and some rewiring... Right now my 258 only has 132K on the clock and the 5speed (t-5, world class?) was just replaced/rebuilt a few years ago by the PO. Anyway, my point is that while I'd love to have another Jeep Diesel, getting there isn't an easy task... john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 14:09:06 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: AW trannies... my little wagoneer, aka, superpup, has over 200,000 miles... I drive it pretty hard, have a trailer that weighs 1,400lbs empty that I routinely load until the springs are bent backwards... a ton to a ton and a half in it... up hills no problem... mine is an 88, original... it's also gone through two student drivers... ;) I'd say it's pretty durable. FWIW, the 4.0L is not a whimpy motor... a friend has over 245,000 miles on his, tows a large air stream trailer and rock crawls at moab with it... in fact, he did the turtle trick a few weeks ago with it... (he built an external cage for his... his is the sand/camo colored xj with wheels pointed skyward...) he tore his down and had it checked a while back... doing fine... so, yes, an AW will hold up just fine in an FSJ. john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 14:20:29 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: found the J20 you mentioned... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320092671& r=0&t=0 The guy doesn't pull any punches in the description... honest and straight forward. Would be happy to zip over to Lynnwood and take a look if anyone would like. It's only about 15 miles from here, due west. :) looks like it could be a good deal. john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 14:26:41 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: temptation from the wrong coast... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=324591738& r=0&t=0 check this jewel out... look at the mileage!!! and the snow plow... what's snow? is my only problem... we saw one this year. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:21:25 -0400 From: "Ray Drouillard" Subject: fsj: Re: AW trannies... > so, yes, an AW will hold up just fine in an FSJ. Will it mate to my NP229? I'm assuming that it will bold to the 360 with little trouble. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 21:02:31 -0400 From: "B. COLUCCI" Subject: fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q Greetings To The FSJ World! Everybody is talking raising those AMPS; well you have failed to consider one important point. The wiring that your FSJ came with from the factory. Back when I was restoring / Upgrading my 77 Plymouth Volare' I pushed the juice envelope to far. OK so I had added big halogen head lights and driving lights, a rear window defroster from a Chrysler New Yorker, (this was one of those units that resembled a large hair drier mounted to the underside of the rear window package shelf..) When it did not clear the window fast enough I modified a heating element from a hair drier to warm things up. Hey it worked great. Oh and there was the big quadraphonic radio / cassette from a Cordoba. Then the crown jewel of my project a complete instrument cluster from a Chrysler LeBaron which included the gauge alert sentinel LED's for low Fuel, Hi Temp and Heavy discharge on the AMP gauge. Well Driving was fine; but when I would come to a light and have to stop with all of the accessories on that AMP gauge would swing left toward the big D and that red LED would light up. So I took the car to my favorite mechanic who had been a Chrysler dealer mechanic for almost ten years before he went to work on the outside. He checked my alternator and said that it was a little week; but probably not my problem. He even plopped in a new 68 AMP'er right out of the box just to test. We had the same problem. So I said, "why don't I just harvest a 90 AMP'er from a LeBaron at the junk yard?" He said that I should not even think about it; because the wiring gauge in my car's charging system was only set up for the 68 AMP unit. If I went to the larger unit my wiring would not last longer then a year in my charging system and would most likely lead to a FIRE! He showed me in his old Chrysler books that indeed there were two different wire harness part numbers depending on which alternator that you had in the car. The next time I was at the Junk yard I looked ; and you could see that the wires were slightly larger in diameter on the cars with the big alternator. SO put the big alternator in your rig and then buy a good fire extinguisher. Spontaneous combustion is real with FSJ's! Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post End Transmission........................................ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 20:21:33 -0500 From: paul stelzig Subject: Re: fsj: Re: AW trannies... I just pulled a np229 out of a '85 little wagoneer in a junk yard I think it had a AW4 but I don't realy know xj's very well. Ray Drouillard wrote: > > so, yes, an AW will hold up just fine in an FSJ. > > Will it mate to my NP229? I'm assuming that it will bold to the 360 with > little trouble. > > Ray ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 22:17:17 -0400 From: "B. COLUCCI" Subject: fsj: SW OH FSJ Fest!!!! Greetings To The FSJ World! Well we always here about FSJ happenings in Snohomish; now it is time for something for the rest of us East of the Mississippi; where out Jeeps don't mold, they Rust. We like them this way because it makes for better fuel economy as the bodies get lighter. It all started when John from Utah called and said that he was coming to Dayton, Oh to see his mother this coming week-end. He wanted to meet up with several of us from this area. So an FSJ fest is being planned for this coming Friday 05-12 at my location here in Dayton, Oh. So all of you from MI, IN & KY show your FSJ spirit and let's make some plans. Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post End Transmission........................................ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 22:21:25 -0400 From: "Ray Drouillard" Subject: fsj: Re: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q > even plopped in a new 68 AMP'er right out of the box just to test. We > had the same problem. So I said, "why don't I just harvest a 90 AMP'er > from a LeBaron at the junk yard?" He said that I should not even think > about it; because the wiring gauge in my car's charging system was only > set up for the 68 AMP unit. If I went to the larger unit my wiring > would not last longer then a year in my charging system and would most > likely lead to a FIRE! This is very true - if you don't know what you are doing. People put big alternators in vehicles all the time. The trick is to beef up the wire that goes from the alternator to the central distribution point, and to the battery. If there is an ammeter, the wires to that meter will have to be as thick as the wire coming from the alternator. - ------ | Alt |---------|O|----------X----------|!|!|!|!|!|!--- Gnd - ------ The first symbol in my crude diagram is the alternator, followed by the ammeter (optional) --|O|-- followed by the central distribution point --X-- followed by the battery --|!|!|!|!|!|!-- In my GW, the alternator goes to a box on the passenger side fender well, and the power is distributed from there. There is no ammeter (I want to add one, but that's a different story). From there, power is distributed to (or from) the battery, to the fuse panel, and to a lot of excess stuff that I added to my Jeep (EFI box, Jacobs ignition, pre-luber, etc). Anyhow, if you replace the alternator, you also need to replace the wire and bring it to that nut and bolt on the fender well. It's also a good idea to replace the battery wire so that the battery can be charged (and discharged) faster. Add all of your power-hungry accessories to that central distribution point. It would be a good idea to fuse each one. It would also be a good idea to add a fuse to the wire that goes to the fuse box. As a rule of thumb, use a fuse of about the same amperage as your old alternator. By the way, someone (I don't remember who) sells xenon off-road lights. They draw considerablly less current than incondescents. I wonder how difficult it would be to harvest the xenon bulbs and power supply from a wrecked car that uses the new bluish headlights. Maybe you'll be lucky and the bulbs will fit directly in place of a standard halogen bulb that you find on cars that don't use sealed beam lamps. Then, you can get the replacement sealed beam lamps that take the naked halogen bulb and put the xenon bulbs in. Ray Drouillard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 19:36:42 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q Admiral... The lead from the battery to the alternator is a fusible link. It MIGHT have to be resized for the larger current flow. But otherwise I've never seen any difference in any of the 11 FSJ's I've owned, or in any of the shop manuals I have a "few". :) (In fact, if an earthquake hit right now I'd back up a few feet so I don't get buried by them...;) Chryslers are NOT Jeeps. My old man had several Chryslers and they were notorious for electrical problems after three years... soon as they started he'd trade 'em in for a new car... and after 2x's with the Star, he moved to GM's... (uh, remember also that we're talking 1960-70's time frame too...) Anyway, the wiring harness is really irrelevant to the issue at hand. If you have Air Conditioning, you need a certain gauge wire to handle the current associated with it. Just because you have a larger alternator doesn't mean squat... Unless of course your wrench, or Chrysler, has figured out how to violate Kirchoff's Law... ;) Like I said, the wiring harness between the alternator and external regulator, if any, would have to be changed for the higher output. But from the Battery back to the firewall, nothing would be changed... At least on a Jeep. And I'm not sure they used different fusible links on the Jeeps for higher output Alternators... Ever seen the specs for a fuse? They aren't what you think they are... If I ever find my little blue notebook from my days in circuit design at boeing I'll share the specs for fuses... you'll be surprised... :) So, if there was any smoke near your mechanic, it wasn't the wiring harness... well, at least where Jeeps are concerned, he may very well have been 110% correct for Chrysler, can't challenge him there... :) So, crank up the amperage capability of your alternator without fear of frying your fsj. However, I highly, highly recommend the use of relays for any higher load devices like lights, horn, fans and so on. The H4 replacement loom from IPF is a good way of reducing problems with even the standard headlights. I had problems with dimmer switches and headlight switches using regular stuff. :) Also, I'd recommend removing the amp guage wiring, it's just asking for trouble... If you want to leave it in place (mine is on Superdawg) then make sure all the wiring is tied up properly and clear of sharp objects. I guess I should continue my wiring article... did you read either of these yet? http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/billy-bob-wire-101.html http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/wiring-101.html (mike said they went a bit long... he was having trouble fitting the first one into the FSJ magazine... ;) I printed it out to read it and didn't realize it was 9 pages long!!! Man, I left a lot of stuff out of that thing too... I didn't discuss Kirchoff... Anyways, bottom line, increasing your alternator's output is not any more of a fire hazard than already exists... you still need to fix the wiring problems you already have. The alternator will only put out the power IF YOU HAVE a load to draw it... (in the case of flaky wiring, a short will work nicely to melt your rig down pretty quick... ;) Of course it'll happen with a weak alternator too... john At 09:02 PM 5/7/00 -0400, B. COLUCCI wrote: >Greetings To The FSJ World! > >Everybody is talking raising those AMPS; well you have failed to >consider one important point. The wiring that your FSJ came with from >the factory. > >He showed me in his old Chrysler books that indeed there were two >different wire harness part numbers depending on which alternator that >you had in the car. The next time I was at the Junk yard I looked ; and >you could see that the wires were slightly larger in diameter on the >cars with the big alternator. > >SO put the big alternator in your rig and then buy a good fire >extinguisher. Spontaneous combustion is real with FSJ's! - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 19:41:33 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: SW OH FSJ Fest!!!! support your local FSJ nuts... btw, Brian, rust is heavier than metal... or do you have to wait till it falls completely off? ;) john At 10:17 PM 5/7/00 -0400, B. COLUCCI wrote: >Greetings To The FSJ World! > >Well we always here about FSJ happenings in Snohomish; now it is time >for something for the rest of us East of the Mississippi; where out >Jeeps don't mold, they Rust. We like them this way because it makes for >better fuel economy as the bodies get lighter. > >It all started when John from Utah called and said that he was coming to >Dayton, Oh to see his mother this coming week-end. He wanted to meet up >with several of us from this area. So an FSJ fest is being planned for >this coming Friday 05-12 at my location here in Dayton, Oh. > >So all of you from MI, IN & KY show your FSJ spirit and let's make some >plans. > > > > >Until The Next Dimension, >Admiral "Coluch." >Starfleet Headquarters >Ohio Post >End Transmission........................................ > > - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:43:17 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: My 3 Sons (graphic descriptions) 10-4 on the parents-in-law. That's why I married an orphan, no father or mother in law troubles! FWIW, I know a VERY good jazz piano player named Arnie Carruthers who continued to play for a lot of years after a stroke left him one arme= d. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Blair" To: ; <1FSJ-at-egroups.com>; Sent: Sunday, 07 May, 2000 11:04 Subject: fsj: My 3 Sons (graphic descriptions) > I'm beginning to feel like Fred McMurray again! I've spent more time > with my kids this last week than the last 6 months! > I went in and saw my #3 son on thursday and he was doing pretty good > (They had some machine that shut the nerves off in his arm, and hyped > him on Morphine) I found a decent block just before visiting hours when > I went in to visit Chris (17) son friday. (In spite of the family > problems and all, my stroker=AE is still coming together piece by piece. > I found solace in losing myself in the moment of searching through the > junkyards for parts last weekend) > BTW, Chris says thanks for the support. He's been kind of depressed > (he loved playing guitar and I have yet to introduce him to my friend > Kenny a nearly one handed guitar player), and they have fixed him up as > well as can be expected. > His index finger (the one you point with) came off mid first knuckle= , > and his middle finger was shredded that far down too, so they grafted > the 1/2 finger on the middle one, w/o a knuckle so he won't be able to > bend it, and pulled the skin up on his thumb to cover the bone. > I'm taking off to visit Chris in a couple hours, and help my #2 son > Bill with court tomorrow AM (he came down to help me this week since > he's on vacation from roofing and I'm laid up with tennis elbow, but > plans changed of course when his brother was hurt!). They are charging > him with driving w/o a license and contravening the restrictions of his > license, (of which it has to be one or the other not both and he's 21 > with a learner's permit. I was pissed to find out the Blair witch spent > the money for their driver's ED on booze!) plus no insurance, when the > insurance company card was given, AND they paid for the bangup, > (although the other driver caused it) and filed a phony personal injury > claim for himself and his kids, which was thrown out after the insuranc= e > agent phoned for the interview and the kids said Daddy was at work and > every one of them said they were fine. > I helped my #1 son Scott on friday night (10 PM til 1 AM) move his > girlfriend's mom in with them (a little early for Mother-in-law > learning, but it was started by the time I got there! I've been very > lucky in that department. My ex's mom loved me, hated her daughter, and > my present wife's mom passed away 25 years ago last Christmas). I > dragged my butt home to Seattle at 4 AM and got up yesterday to clean > out 1/3 of the garage (It's coming down to the last of it finally! I'll > be able to get Elmo in there for the frame swap/ axle swap/ 2"body/ > 3"spring lift and stroker/ AW4/ NP208/ 33" tires and a partridge in a > pear tree! > I think I found a Jeep in dash CD player that will work w/o > butchering the face plate too! > First though, another trip to BC. (Blackie isn't going though. Too > loaded down with extraneous stuff from the garage) > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on > allexperts.com Pics: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 03:30:18 GMT From: Robert Barry Subject: Re: fsj: major amperage... >beams and then the IPF 800's... yikes... the amp gauge went >to the right in a major way! :) YIPES!!! Is this *with* the bypass wire from the alternator (+) lead to the (+) stud on the starter relay? (aka Ammeter bypass) >I was putting out about 490 Watts... drawing an estimated 40.83 Amps >for just the lights only... I imagine you are running this through a relay, right? Is that the IPF harness you mentioned? I was happy with the relay setup I used on my Scary Cherokee. $10 worth of relays, a couple connectors, a $6 aftermarket fuse-box to cover the extra (+) feed for the ligths, and only clipping two wires to wire it up. Between that mod and the ammeter bypasse, there is now only a trickle of electrons flowing through my dash wires... :) ________________________________________________ Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #841 *************************