From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu May 11 19:47:35 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, May 11 2000 Volume 01 : Number 847 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: sun shine pain and cool rides... Re: fsj: Re: sun shine pain and cool rides... Re: [fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] fsj: Re: 1950 Willys Jeep-at-Auction fsj: RE: RE: Vinyl top fsj: Rear axle seal/bearing Re: [fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] fsj: wiring, vacations and so on... fsj: Re: Oddities on the Wagoneer Re: fsj: Oddities on the Wagoneer fsj: Re: Re: Oddities on the Wagoneer fsj: Starter question... fsj: list stats May 11 fsj: RE: RE: Vinyl top Re: fsj: NEC fsj: RE: RE: RE: Vinyl top FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:51:55 EDT From: OrigamiTB-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: sun shine pain and cool rides... In a message dated 00-05-11 18:35:20 EDT, James Blair wrote: > My heat doesn't shut down for some reason > (too aching yet to crawl under the dash and > no-one around to help me unload the trans. > Cortisone shot still hurts worse than before! > Damn tennis elbow!) and I just open and close > the air vents to make it comfortable inside. Mine didn't shut down either, and I found that the heater valve had rusted into a permanently "open" position. I looked in a couple of junkyards for a new valve, but the few I found were as bad or worse than what I already have; so I just re-routed the heater hose and bypassed the heater-core. ++ Cornel Ormsby ++ not leaving Las Vegas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:57:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: sun shine pain and cool rides... A: I have several near new ones kicking around from other cars. With the quick temp changes around here (like the snow I was just reading about NE of Snohomish) I need one that works, but I think the cable has a problem. I wrote: My heat doesn't shut down for some reason (too aching yet to crawl under the dash and no-one around to help me unload the trans. Cortisone shot still hurts worse than before! Damn tennis elbow!) and I just open and close the air vents to make it comfortable inside. ++ Cornel Ormsby ++ Mine didn't shut down either, and I found that the heater valve had rusted into a permanently "open" position. I looked in a couple of junkyards for a new valve, but the few I found were as bad or worse than what I already have; so I just re-routed the heater hose and bypassed the heater-core. ++ Cornel Ormsby ++ not leaving Las Vegas ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:23:22 -0400 From: "Ray Drouillard" Subject: Re: [fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] > Dang, and I thought I had finally stamped that memory out of my head. I know > C will be with me to the grave, but was hoping to have evicted Kirchoff and > Thevenin by this time... I'll keep Ohm around tho, he comes in handy now and > again. And you never know when you're going to want to analyze the transient > response of your friendly neighborhood JFET... (*shudder* this is scaring me, > I better stop) You forgot about Norton. Remember him? "Thesumofthecurrentsintoanodeequalszero"? I still haven't figured out what Kirchoff has to do with melting wires. "The sum of the voltages around a loop is zero". It is more like the combination of Ohm's law (V=I*R) and the power equation (P=I*V) that'll melt your insulation. P=I^2*R... the good 'ol "I squared R" losses - power turned into heat as you watch :) But Michael... if you haven't Thevinated lately, you might want to bone up on the good 'ol "S domain" stuff. Remember that stuff? You do your Leplace transform thingie and throw some "S" into your nice formerly linear equations and find yourself mumbling something like Vc=1/(S*C) and Vl=S*L. Then, you do all that Kirchoff and Norton stuff, maybe Thevinate a little, throw it into a matrix, and try to remember how to do matrix algebra. Ray Drouillard - Technoweenie at large ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:57:44 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 1950 Willys Jeep-at-Auction will forward it to a couple jeep lists... At 07:48 PM 5/11/00 EDT, you wrote: >If you know of anyone thats interested in a 1950 Willys Jeep, complete ready >for restoration,please see our web page: http://www.web2000.com/auctionsbystevens. >Thank you. > >Roger Stevens > >(540) 890-0895 or (540) 343-2072 > - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:08:45 -0500 From: "Bob Bradfield,MCSE" Subject: fsj: RE: RE: Vinyl top I'm listening to the experts here because I'm not one of them. Those dime sized holes where the roof rack was are gonna have to be welded? I just thought some kind of fiber-laced filler would do it. Am I wrong? Thanks for the feed back! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Gaylon Holmes Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 10:35 AM To: Full Size Jeep List Subject: fsj: RE: Vinyl top Body filler does not have the integrity necessary to fill the holes satisfactorily. It is designed simply to fill minor imperfections and grinder marks in sheet metal panels. Find a qualified welder and have him/her use a wire-feed, (MIG), welder to fill the holes. Caution is required to avoid warping the panels from the heat. A good welder will know how to isolate the heat to the repair area to avoid this difficulty. Always treat any bare metal and welded areas with an etch-type primer to achieve adhesive and prevent corrosion. Regards, - -Holmes > Ok, the vinyl top on my 83 Wag needs to come off. Has some holes > and tears > but, the biggest reason is the fade, it's just ugly. Also, I > don't want any > type of rack up there. Can I just remove the vinyl and plug (bondo) the > holes? The trucks gonna be repainted anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:05:44 -0500 From: jeepnut Subject: fsj: Rear axle seal/bearing Hi group... Man I've got a lot of stuff wrong.... OK, still haven't got the new solenoid yet, though am pretty sure that is it, but.... I have very poor luck with someone else working on my rigs down here for some reason. So a few months ago, I found the rear seal, drivers side leaking badly. Literally everything within the brake drum was coated with goop. First time replacing a rear wheel bearing for this dyed-in-the-wool, bailin'wire an' ducttape kinda guy but I know from the reading that I need to press the bearing and retaining ring back on. 30" of 2" pipe and some appropriate flanges for flat surfaces, drop the axle thru a flange, onto the retaining ring, down into the pipe, and drop it from 6, 8, 12 inches to the concrete pad as appropriate now driving the bearing ever closer toward the retaining ring as required. ... but I don't think I drove it far enough. After installing the seal, it was fine for a while, but I've got a brake drum fulla goo again. And it looks leaking pretty good, so I'm pretty sure the rear end is running low on fluid. SOOO having only ever done this one, and not having a spare laying around to look at.... What do you guys think I did here? Is there some kind of shoulder on the axle shaft that I can safely hammer this thing down tight against? I seem to recall being more worried about going too far, than in not going far enough. I seem to recall thinking that if I went too far, I'd never be able to get it backed off without buggering it up. So I may have erred by not driving it home like a banshee. What do you think? I'm thinking about pulling it tomorrow nite and trying my "special technique" again to see if I can move it a little more toward the wheel end of the axle. Or is it a waste of time... maybe the seal is all buggered up and would keep leaking anyway.... Same topic... the idiot at AutoZone just told me that Jeep doesn't use an outer wheel bearing, only the inners cause that's what his computer brought up. Since the outers didn't come up, I don't have to worry about them, it doesn't use them. Isn't that great, how lucky for me. Other interesting news from AutoZone? ....the throttle solenoid for an '88 Grand Wagoneer doesn't come separately. It only comes in the throttle body rebuild kit that has all the gaskets you need to rebuild the throttle body. You don't say.... Now I have to order it from my usual guy and wait till next week.... Thanks Folks. Steve Lett aka JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:12:59 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: Re: [fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] > Well, not -wasted- ... those 90 extra amps would (briefly) go into melting the > 10ga wire and maybe even turning the rig into a nice campfire... :) > > Speaking of melted wire, I recently added a batt cable to my trophies; the > insulation had melted and dripped off and then cooled leaving a big strip of > material hanging from a bare wire. All thanks to a bad starter. Isn't that neat? Mine did that too earlier this year. Almost had an FSJ-BQ when I let up on the key. Cooked the batt cable to solenoid, solenoid to starter, AND the solenoid! I always carry wieners and marshmallows just in case. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:13:23 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: wiring, vacations and so on... It's probably not a bad idea to systematically replace as much wire as you can. Make your own wiring harnesses and wrap them up in electrical tape and the plastic sleeves and route them around nicely. vacation? what's that? Michael, while you're in france will you check on that bridge, I think it's in Avion or somewhere around there... they weren't finished with it when I was there in '77... see if they made any progress... rofl... john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:16:20 -0500 From: jeepnut Subject: fsj: Re: Oddities on the Wagoneer Wow, you're good. Checking the FSM and it shows in the IS sections an update for the '86 model year. It is a voltmeter! What does that mean to me? BEE is pretty durn dusty, but maybe I can dredge up that the ammeter is more dangerous due to... what? ...current in the wire to an ammeter is higher than in a wire to a voltmeter? more disastrous if the wire shorts?... Kinda a guess, but I think there's logic in there somewhere . Thanks! JeepNut michel balea wrote: > Hey jeepnut, > > I was going to suggest the ammeter going bad... as you mentionned that you > had one.... but which rig are you talking ! the 87... i though that in 86 > they switched to voltmeter. > > Until i replaced (bypassed the ammeter) i had very erratic idle speed... > when the ammeter fried, or gasped slowly, it would run fine, but as soon as > i put the light on, it died... Another sidewalk fix. > > First i would see if the solenoid push on the throttle shaft / disconnect > solenoid to see if it works.... or increase the idle speed. Otherwise the > ammeter could be dying and lowering the current starving the brain box and > the whole system... > > Always start with the easy inexpensive fix > > Michel > 74 wag > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:23:37 -0500 From: jeepnut Subject: Re: fsj: Oddities on the Wagoneer Hi Mr. Black, What year is your SJ? Poking around the book tonite and noticed an IS note on '86 model year for a "mild surge or engine speed variation while driving"....on the 5.9l engine... Power Valve Vacumn Circuit gets rerouted to a better vacumn source. Let me know if you (or others) need details. Steve Lett aka JeepNut Dan Black wrote: > jeepnut said: > {- Sitting at a light, once in a while, or sometimes while slowing as > {- you pull up to a light, the truck dies. Only happened very > {- occaisionally, but is getting more frequent. To the point that it is > {- happening nearly every day, driving in, but usually not driving home for > {- whatever reason. > [...] > {- And to go along with this, when it's raining, lights on, wipers on, > {- radio, fan on high to defrost, etc. and you pull up to a light even > {- without the above mentioned anomoly going on, the ammeter loads way > {- down, lights dim, fan slows, ... what causes this? > > This may not be it, but if it happens more when it's humid out, it could > be the classic ignition module -- about a $15 instant fix. They tend to > go out in the FSJs after about twelve years -- which means I better get > my spare; my current one is due any day... Anyway, these start out > gradually, then get worse, to the point where it dies driving through > fog or whatever, and they become difficult to restart in humid weather. > > Along the same lines, it could be a cracked distributor cap; this is > also about a $5-10 instant fix. You may be able to check that by > getting a plastic spray bottle ("spritzer") with water, running the > vehicle (in 'park', of course), and spraying water on the distributor > cap. If it dies when you do that, you win. > > Yet another possibility could be a bad carb... I don't know if they get > worse with age, but I can't imagine them getting better on their own. I > know my FSJ has had a dead spot in the accelerator since I got it, and > it seems to be worse in cold or humid weather -- which is most of the > year in Iowa (cold half the year, humid the other half). > > I'm not disputing other suggestions; I'm just mentioning more > posisbilities. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Trying" is the first step toward failure. > -- Homer Simpson > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:26:03 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: Oddities on the Wagoneer > > Always start with the easy inexpensive fix > > > > Michel What, heresy??? The joy of FSJing like any other DIY is always starting with the most difficult, expensive fix possible, and working backwards until the darn thing works. Isn't that right??? kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:36:31 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Starter question... Now Kim and Michael had to remind me about starters... Mine won't quit. Anybody had this? The silly thing will start cranking but I can let off the key and it keeps cranking until it starts, or sometimes it'll cough and not start, but the point is that the starter seems to stop "driving" as soon as the truck starts to act like it's gonna start. So I'm lost. For 32,000 now Regis, is it a. bad key switch b. bad solenoid c. goofy starter d. none of the above? And does this seem a fire hazard to anyone else? Man I've never heard that word so much discussing ANY other kind of vehicle. Are these things rolling torches or what? ...not that it'll make much difference... I may have to pickup an extinguisher tho... Thanks! Steve aka JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:30:56 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: list stats May 11 Members of list 'xj': 53 subscribers Members of list 'xj-digest': 61 subscribers Members of list 'fsj': 87 subscribers Members of list 'fsj-digest': 73 subscribers Members of list 'diesel-benz': 90 subscribers Members of list 'diesel-benz-digest': 51 subscribers ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:02:59 -0600 From: "Gaylon Holmes" Subject: fsj: RE: RE: Vinyl top Using a fibre reinforced filler, such as Marson Marglass, will work as long as there is a good backing behind it. It is, however, a "bandage" style repair that does not have the durability of the welding process. The roof panel is large and features much unsupported area. This flexibility will eventually cause the filler patches to fracture and deteriorate. To avoid the expense of welding, or the instability of using a filler, you may want to consider using body plugs. These are available from body shop supply distributors and can be had in a variety of profiles and colors. They can be glued into place with urethane sealant and even painted to match the vehicle. It gives the appearance of flat buttonheads on the roof. I have done two Wagoneers in this manner and they have held up fine and look good. - -Holmes > -----Original Message----- > To: Gaylon Holmes; Full Size Jeep List > Subject: RE: RE: Vinyl top > > I'm listening to the experts here because I'm not one of them. Those dime > sized holes where the roof rack was are gonna have to be welded? I just > thought some kind of fiber-laced filler would do it. Am I wrong? Thanks > for the feed back! >> -----Original Message----- >> Gaylon Holmes >> Subject: fsj: RE: Vinyl top >> >> Body filler does not have the integrity necessary to fill the holes >> satisfactorily. It is designed simply to fill minor imperfections and >> grinder marks in sheet metal panels. >> >> Find a qualified welder and have him/her use a wire-feed, (MIG), welder to >> fill the holes. Caution is required to avoid warping the panels from the >> heat. A good welder will know how to isolate the heat to the >> repair area to >> avoid this difficulty. >> >> Always treat any bare metal and welded areas with an etch-type primer to >> achieve adhesive and prevent corrosion. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 21:40:14 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: NEC Here's a handy online chart... y'all... http://www.alphawire.com/pages/374.htm Steve Lett aka JeepNut Michael Baxter wrote: > Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com writes: > > >> Because I needed a break, and I was a bit curious, I tried to look for > the reference you made with respect to the "12V NEC length vs. current > capacity chart." > > I couldn't find it though. I have a 1999 copy of the NEC (NFPA70). Where > is that chart at? > << > > It's in a book I have on RV Maintenance. I've been thinking for years > about scanning them and making them available. I don't think it's > copyright infringement since the charts source is cited as the NEC. I > should get around to that soon. > > Maybe the NEC has different books for AC and DC? Not sure why there not in > the current book. > > Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter > From Reno, NV USA on 11-May-2000 - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:40:25 -0500 From: "Bob Bradfield,MCSE" Subject: fsj: RE: RE: RE: Vinyl top Wow. Thanks for all of the info. Didn't think of the flexing that happens up there, great point. I'm having a new liner installed and, leaking will be frowned upon. BTW, since you know what you're doing , would you be able to tell me why the %^&* my Chilton's and Haynes books refer to a 'DUAL CTO' in my 83 Wag, even my emissions sticker shows two of these bad boys. I only have one. It sits on the thermostat housing. There is not even a place for the other - nothing. I have the CTO on the DRV side, the vacuum distributor on the PASS side, thats it. Trying to redo the vacuum lines is almost impossible because of bad diagrams. Even the Jeep dealers microfilm shows a dual system. I've asked this before, to no avail. Thanks again, Gaylon. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Gaylon Holmes Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 9:03 PM To: Full Size Jeep List Subject: fsj: RE: RE: Vinyl top Using a fibre reinforced filler, such as Marson Marglass, will work as long as there is a good backing behind it. It is, however, a "bandage" style repair that does not have the durability of the welding process. The roof panel is large and features much unsupported area. This flexibility will eventually cause the filler patches to fracture and deteriorate. To avoid the expense of welding, or the instability of using a filler, you may want to consider using body plugs. These are available from body shop supply distributors and can be had in a variety of profiles and colors. They can be glued into place with urethane sealant and even painted to match the vehicle. It gives the appearance of flat buttonheads on the roof. I have done two Wagoneers in this manner and they have held up fine and look good. - -Holmes > -----Original Message----- > To: Gaylon Holmes; Full Size Jeep List > Subject: RE: RE: Vinyl top > > I'm listening to the experts here because I'm not one of them. Those dime > sized holes where the roof rack was are gonna have to be welded? I just > thought some kind of fiber-laced filler would do it. Am I wrong? Thanks > for the feed back! >> -----Original Message----- >> Gaylon Holmes >> Subject: fsj: RE: Vinyl top >> >> Body filler does not have the integrity necessary to fill the holes >> satisfactorily. It is designed simply to fill minor imperfections and >> grinder marks in sheet metal panels. >> >> Find a qualified welder and have him/her use a wire-feed, (MIG), welder to >> fill the holes. Caution is required to avoid warping the panels from the >> heat. A good welder will know how to isolate the heat to the >> repair area to >> avoid this difficulty. >> >> Always treat any bare metal and welded areas with an etch-type primer to >> achieve adhesive and prevent corrosion. ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #847 *************************