From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri May 12 11:31:31 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, May 12 2000 Volume 01 : Number 850 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: RE: RE: RE: Vinyl top fsj: Cherokee V8 Re: fsj: Rear axle seal/bearing Re: fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] fsj: Re: Re: Starter question... Re: fsj: Re: Oddities on the Wagoneer Re: fsj: Rear axle seal/bearing Re: fsj: Rear axle seal/bearing Re: fsj: Re: Oddities on the Wagoneer Re: fsj: RE: RE: RE: Vinyl top Re: [Re: fsj: sun shine pain and cool rides...] FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:16:08 -0500 From: "Bob Bradfield,MCSE" Subject: fsj: RE: RE: RE: Vinyl top I'd be VERY suprised if the DS-PREV-O would understand the operational functions of a screwdriver, let alone an engine or manifold swap. My issue is, what guide do I use for replacing the currently butchered, plugged off and missing vacuum lines? The dealer tells me there was a change made during 83, I just got mis-labeled. Not much help. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of James Blair Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 11:19 PM To: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: RE: RE: RE: Vinyl top A: Sounds to me like someone swapped in an older motor or swapped manifolds. My '84 had a setup like that! Bob Bradfield,MCSE wrote: Wow. Thanks for all of the info. Didn't think of the flexing that happens up there, great point. I'm having a new liner installed and, leaking will be frowned upon. BTW, since you know what you're doing , would you be able to tell me why the %^&* my Chilton's and Haynes books refer to a 'DUAL CTO' in my 83 Wag, even my emissions sticker shows two of these bad boys. I only have one. It sits on the thermostat housing. There is not even a place for the other - nothing. I have the CTO on the DRV side, the vacuum distributor on the PASS side, thats it. Trying to redo the vacuum lines is almost impossible because of bad diagrams. Even the Jeep dealers microfilm shows a dual system. I've asked this before, to no avail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:03:19 EDT From: HH4PIZZA-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Cherokee V8 I swapped an LT1 (Chevy 350-1993 Camaro) in to my cherokee it was pretty tight near the exhaust manifolds. I believe that the Buick 455 would really be pushing it, but if you are any thing like me it'll fit some way or another. I can send you some pics this weekend of where it is tight. It sounds like the results would be interesting. E-mail me with any questions. Later, Dustin Crawley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:11:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: Re: fsj: Rear axle seal/bearing Dude...just bring the axle shaft into a machine shop...NAPA or similar. I did this a bit ago...$20 for the bearing,$10 for the seal, $20 for the labor...or something like that. Then just put it in and run with it... I assume you have the D44 rear axle in the '88 wag. They have a new style bearing that does away with the inner seal...I know, I know, it scared me too, but that's all I could get. So, now the wheel bearing is constantly oiled, but there is only one seal between the oil and the water... Greg - --- JeepNut wrote: > Hi Mr. Blair, > Sooo there is ALSO an inner seal. Bearing too? > How to replace both? > How to grease the seal? > Pull the hogshead outta the rear end?... I DON'WANNA > DO DAT!.... but will if > I have to I suppose. Pulling the hogshead is kinda > scary to me. I know > there are shims involved and if it isn't done right, > I'll make things > worse... > Steve Lett aka JeepNut > > James Blair wrote: > > > A: Sounds like either the inner seal was tweaked > during install (I > > grease them before pushing the axles in, and DON'T > let the axle slide on > > the seal! Also make sure the spring is on the > inside lip after > > installing! They tend to fly off if hit wrong) I > grease the bearings > > separately and make sure the seal surface is as > clean as possible, with > > no scratches or scores from the old seal (and they > sell you the right > > seal!). Any scores, and I put in a speedi-sleeve > repair kit. I believe > > you need a Set 10 bearing kit. > > > > Steve wrote > > Hi group... > > Man I've got a lot of stuff wrong.... > > OK, still haven't got the new solenoid > yet, > > though am pretty sure that is it, but.... > > I have very poor luck with someone else > working > > on my rigs down here for some reason. So a few > months ago, I found the > > rear seal, drivers side leaking badly. Literally > everything within the > > brake drum was coated with goop. > > First time replacing a rear wheel bearing > for > > this dyed-in-the-wool, bailin'wire an' ducttape > kinda guy but I know > > from the reading that I need to press the bearing > and retaining ring > > back on. 30" of 2" pipe and some appropriate > flanges for flat surfaces, > > drop the axle thru a flange, onto the retaining > ring, down into the > > pipe, and drop it from 6, 8, 12 inches to the > concrete pad as > > appropriate now driving the bearing ever closer > toward the retaining > > ring as required. > > ... but I don't think I drove it far > enough. > > After installing the seal, it was fine for a > while, but I've got a brake > > drum fulla goo again. And it looks leaking pretty > good, so I'm pretty > > sure the rear end is running low on fluid. > > SOOO having only ever done this one, and > not > > having a spare laying around to look at.... What > do you guys think I did > > here? Is there some kind of shoulder on the axle > shaft that I can safely > > hammer this thing down tight against? I seem to > recall being more > > worried about going too far, than in not going far > enough. I seem to > > recall thinking that if I went too far, I'd never > be able to get it > > backed off without buggering it up. So I may have > erred by not driving > > it home like a banshee. What do you think? > > I'm thinking about pulling it tomorrow > nite and > > trying my "special technique" again to see if I > can move it a little > > more toward the wheel end of the axle. Or is it a > waste of time... maybe > > the seal is all buggered up and would keep leaking > anyway.... > > Same topic... the idiot at AutoZone just > told me > > that Jeep doesn't use an outer wheel bearing, only > the inners cause > > that's what his computer brought up. Since the > outers didn't come up, I > > don't have to worry about them, it doesn't use > them. Isn't that great, > > how lucky for me. > > Other interesting news from AutoZone? > ....the > > throttle solenoid for an '88 Grand Wagoneer > doesn't come separately. It > > only comes in the throttle body rebuild kit that > has all the gaskets you > > need to rebuild the throttle body. You don't > say.... > > Now I have to order it from my usual guy > and > > wait till next week.... > > Thanks Folks. > > Steve Lett aka JeepNut > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, > Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr > > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now > appearing on > > allexperts.com Pics: > > > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > -- > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's > only one... > '92 Cherokee > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:24:33 -0400 From: Robert Barry Subject: Re: fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] >better at night; by all means... The way to utilize the additional capaci= >ty >of the alternator is to power high-draw aftermarket accessories via well >thought-out and over-current protected additional circuits. Just leave th= >e >stock stuff intact. If you have an ammeter, remember it'll only read how >much current goes to/from the battery through the stock system. This is what I've done; I run the headlights off of relays fed from the alternator output (through a 30A fuse on an additional fusebox I added to the engine compartment), and I have a charge wire running from that same post to the starter relay to charge the battery. With the rest of the stock (repaired) wiring in place, my Ammeter does not move any discernible amount. The only draw through the dash wiring is for the gauges, interior lights, wipers, rear-window, CB radio, marker lights and ignition. This is me being overcautious after the last dash-wiring meltdown. ________________________________________________ Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:18:26 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: Starter question... Right, the original Ford Exploder. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, 11 May, 2000 21:34 Subject: fsj: Re: Starter question... > In a message dated 00-05-11 22:40:25 EDT, Steve wrote: > > > The silly thing will start cranking but I can let off the key > > and it keeps cranking until it starts, or sometimes it'll cough > > and not start, but the point is that the starter seems to stop > > "driving" as soon as the truck starts to act like it's gonna start. > > So I'm lost. For 32,000 now Regis, is it > > a. bad key switch > > b. bad solenoid > > c. goofy starter > > d. none of the above? > > I'd say that it's (d), either a mis-wired key switch or a mis-wired solenoid, > or both, so that the solenoid is "self-energized" when the key is turned. > > > And does this seem a fire hazard to anyone else? > > No. > > > Man I've never heard that word so much discussing > > ANY other kind of vehicle. > > I know two people who've each had multiple fires in their Fiats (model 128), > and another guy who got the Pontiac dealer to take back his Fiero after > multiple fires; but the reigning champion of fire-starters had to be the > Pinto! > > ++ Cornel Ormsby ++ > not leaving Las Vegas > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:24:36 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Oddities on the Wagoneer [snip] > I put a ground wire on Blackie to > the battery to body because my lights flickered, and the alternator was > already jumped to the battery direct. They even put in a hi beam switch > in trying to cure it! (It had charging trouble too) Right, like it is supposed to have OEM! The proper ground cable for the FSJ (at least '80 and after) has a wire that goes from a pigtail from the clamp to a large screw on the top of the inner fender. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:45:40 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: Re: fsj: Rear axle seal/bearing Sound advice! Unless you have a press, it is just too easy to do damage using a BFH and pounding it on. Remember, if you have to do one yourself, that the retainer ring must be heated per the manual before driving/pressing it on. If you don't heat it, you can score the axle and you will definitely weaken the ring. And remember, that ring is all that's keeping the axle in place. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Loxtercamp" To: "FSJ List" Sent: Friday, 12 May, 2000 09:11 Subject: Re: fsj: Rear axle seal/bearing > Dude...just bring the axle shaft into a machine > shop...NAPA or similar. I did this a bit ago...$20 > for the bearing,$10 for the seal, $20 for the > labor...or something like that. Then just put it in > and run with it... > > I assume you have the D44 rear axle in the '88 wag. > They have a new style bearing that does away with the > inner seal...I know, I know, it scared me too, but > that's all I could get. So, now the wheel bearing is > constantly oiled, but there is only one seal between > the oil and the water... > > Greg > > --- JeepNut wrote: > > Hi Mr. Blair, > > Sooo there is ALSO an inner seal. Bearing too? > > How to replace both? > > How to grease the seal? > > Pull the hogshead outta the rear end?... I DON'WANNA > > DO DAT!.... but will if > > I have to I suppose. Pulling the hogshead is kinda > > scary to me. I know > > there are shims involved and if it isn't done right, > > I'll make things > > worse... > > Steve Lett aka JeepNut > > > > James Blair wrote: > > > > > A: Sounds like either the inner seal was tweaked > > during install (I > > > grease them before pushing the axles in, and DON'T > > let the axle slide on > > > the seal! Also make sure the spring is on the > > inside lip after > > > installing! They tend to fly off if hit wrong) I > > grease the bearings > > > separately and make sure the seal surface is as > > clean as possible, with > > > no scratches or scores from the old seal (and they > > sell you the right > > > seal!). Any scores, and I put in a speedi-sleeve > > repair kit. I believe > > > you need a Set 10 bearing kit. > > > > > > Steve wrote > > > Hi group... > > > Man I've got a lot of stuff wrong.... > > > OK, still haven't got the new solenoid > > yet, > > > though am pretty sure that is it, but.... > > > I have very poor luck with someone else > > working > > > on my rigs down here for some reason. So a few > > months ago, I found the > > > rear seal, drivers side leaking badly. Literally > > everything within the > > > brake drum was coated with goop. > > > First time replacing a rear wheel bearing > > for > > > this dyed-in-the-wool, bailin'wire an' ducttape > > kinda guy but I know > > > from the reading that I need to press the bearing > > and retaining ring > > > back on. 30" of 2" pipe and some appropriate > > flanges for flat surfaces, > > > drop the axle thru a flange, onto the retaining > > ring, down into the > > > pipe, and drop it from 6, 8, 12 inches to the > > concrete pad as > > > appropriate now driving the bearing ever closer > > toward the retaining > > > ring as required. > > > ... but I don't think I drove it far > > enough. > > > After installing the seal, it was fine for a > > while, but I've got a brake > > > drum fulla goo again. And it looks leaking pretty > > good, so I'm pretty > > > sure the rear end is running low on fluid. > > > SOOO having only ever done this one, and > > not > > > having a spare laying around to look at.... What > > do you guys think I did > > > here? Is there some kind of shoulder on the axle > > shaft that I can safely > > > hammer this thing down tight against? I seem to > > recall being more > > > worried about going too far, than in not going far > > enough. I seem to > > > recall thinking that if I went too far, I'd never > > be able to get it > > > backed off without buggering it up. So I may have > > erred by not driving > > > it home like a banshee. What do you think? > > > I'm thinking about pulling it tomorrow > > nite and > > > trying my "special technique" again to see if I > > can move it a little > > > more toward the wheel end of the axle. Or is it a > > waste of time... maybe > > > the seal is all buggered up and would keep leaking > > anyway.... > > > Same topic... the idiot at AutoZone just > > told me > > > that Jeep doesn't use an outer wheel bearing, only > > the inners cause > > > that's what his computer brought up. Since the > > outers didn't come up, I > > > don't have to worry about them, it doesn't use > > them. Isn't that great, > > > how lucky for me. > > > Other interesting news from AutoZone? > > ....the > > > throttle solenoid for an '88 Grand Wagoneer > > doesn't come separately. It > > > only comes in the throttle body rebuild kit that > > has all the gaskets you > > > need to rebuild the throttle body. You don't > > say.... > > > Now I have to order it from my usual guy > > and > > > wait till next week.... > > > Thanks Folks. > > > Steve Lett aka JeepNut > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, > > Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr > > > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now > > appearing on > > > allexperts.com Pics: > > > > > > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > -- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's > > only one... > > '92 Cherokee > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:47:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Rear axle seal/bearing A: Sorry, that came accross as confusing. NO, you don't have to pull apart the diff. You just remove the inner seal, and the old bearing, and have the Set 10 pressed on by a machine shop. It has tighter tolerances than the floating style, so 1 seal often works out to be better than the old dual seal style. It's also pre-greased (no accidental dirt inclusions) Steve wrote: Hi Mr. Blair, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Sooo there is ALSO an inner seal. Bearing too? How to replace both? How to grease the seal? Pull the hogshead outta the rear end?... I DON'WANNA DO DAT!.... but will if I have to I suppose. Pulling the hogshead is kinda scary to me. I know there are shims involved and if it isn't done right, I'll make things worse... =A0=A0=A0=A0Steve Lett =A0 aka JeepNut ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:55:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Oddities on the Wagoneer A: There is supposed to be a ground strap from the block across the motor mount to the frame too. DSPO had a broken mount, and twisted this one up with a bolt to keep the engine from lifting in reverse! Blackie now sports an Energy Suspension 2.1102G motor mount, with the other to be replaced very soon, and then I pulled a DOH! I bought the ES mount for the trans, but the AW4 I'm putting in needs a different mount! DOH! (unless I figure out the mounting pad for the original FSJ to fit the AW4 is the same height. I can't manuever things around much yet to measure) I wrote: [snip] I put a ground wire on Blackie to the battery to body because my lights flickered, and the alternator was already jumped to the battery direct. They even put in a hi beam switch in trying to cure it! (It had charging trouble too) Kim Smith wrote: Right, like it is supposed to have OEM! The proper ground cable for the FSJ (at least '80 and after) has a wire that goes from a pigtail from the clamp to a large screw on the top of the inner fender. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:08:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: RE: RE: RE: Vinyl top A: Can you scoop a pic (or 10) of it somehow and email to me? I can do much better with vacuum stuff if I have a visual idea of what's what. The DSPO or the person prior to him may have swapped engines. I reported several shops in BC that when the customer I had just built an engine for recently came in for a tuneup after breaking the engine in, actually PULLED the motor and put in a POS from a wrecking yard! Only way I could tell for sure was by the engine casting and serial #s (several customers tried to swap auto wrecker specials in and claim my rebuild was no good too, so I kept track of EVERY engine I did, with the VIN of the car and plate #, plus owner's name). Average 6 out of every 100 motors did come back for real warranty problems, but usually it was the machine work was incorrect, or parts were flawed (dontcha love Badger pistons? NOT!) but I did have the odd DOH moment then too, just not as many as since the car fell on my head! Bob=A0Bradfield wrote: I'd be VERY suprised if the DS-PREV-O would understand the operational functions of a screwdriver, let alone an engine or manifold swap. My issue is, what guide do I use for replacing the currently butchered, plugged off and missing vacuum lines? The dealer tells me there was a change made during 83, I just got mis-labeled. Not much help. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of James Blair Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 11:19 PM To: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: RE: RE: RE: Vinyl top A: Sounds to me like someone swapped in an older motor or swapped manifolds. My '84 had a setup like that! Bob Bradfield,MCSE wrote: Wow. Thanks for all of the info. Didn't think of the flexing that happens up there, great point. I'm having a new liner installed and, leaking will be frowned upon. BTW, since you know what you're doing , would you be able to tell me why the %^&* my Chilton's and Haynes books refer to a 'DUAL CTO' in my 83 Wag, even my emissions sticker shows two of these bad boys. I only have one. It sits on the thermostat housing. There is not even a place for the other - nothing. I have the CTO on the DRV side, the vacuum distributor on the PASS side, thats it. Trying to redo the vacuum lines is almost impossible because of bad diagrams. Even the Jeep dealers microfilm shows a dual system. I've asked this before, to no avail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: 12 May 00 12:33:01 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [Re: fsj: sun shine pain and cool rides...] john wrote: > If it is in need of a charge you may consider going for the r134 > stuff... I hear it's not as good as R12, but I guess it isn't as good at transferring heat (err...let's not talk about= thermodynamics, I got a D in that class...) Anyway, what is involved in converting? I understand a larger coolant radiator (condenser, whatever you call the blasted thing) is helpful, but= can the stock compressor and other components handle R134 or do other modifications need to be made? As far as tips on staying cool, having lived in Tucson for the first 23 y= ears of my life I can confidently say that the key is to have a white (or very= light colored) vehicle, with very light colored interior and tinted windo= ws. = I've had two white cars down there, both with tinted windows, and both wi= th dark interiors (dark grey, navy blue) and both got excruciatingly hot as = an oven after sitting in 110 degree weather for a few hours. Dark cars or untinted cars were 10x worse. We're talking actual 1st degree burns if y= ou touch that metal seatbelt too long--but you won't because it's like touch= ing an oven burner. I never thought I'd say it but I'm kind of glad to have = left those extreme summers behind for the cool climes of CO. I can only imagine a p/u with a much smaller volume of air in the cab to = heat would get mighty toasty during the hot season... no personal experience w= ith that, but I'd imagine tinting the windows as dark as you can and painting= the roof white would help quite a bit. :) Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #850 *************************