From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed May 17 11:32:31 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, May 17 2000 Volume 01 : Number 856 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Leaky Gasket Re: fsj: "Test Plugs" for air injection system on a 360? fsj: Manual trans with Quadra-trac? Re: fsj: Manual trans with Quadra-trac? fsj: starters fsj: '88 2dr Cherokee for $1000 (overheats) Re: fsj: starters fsj: Loud clunking in front right wheel fsj: some new tech pix fsj: Re: [1FSJ] 79 TSM??? fsj: Re: [1FSJ] 79 TSM??? fsj: Re: Loud clunking in front right wheel fsj: RE: Re: Loud clunking in front right wheel fsj: Miles to the Gallon]] fsj: Leaky Gasket fsj: Testing/Adjusting dashboard voltage regu fsj: NEC fsj: Looking for Wag Re: fsj: Looking for Wag fsj: I'm about to do a bad, bad thing! FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 22:16:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Leaky Gasket A: Flatten out all the holes in the cover while you have it off. The DSPO may have overtightened it and then it pushes the gasket out. I also use a very light skim of black silicone, and finger tighten it till it's dry. Steve wrote: So what's the trick to keeping an auto tranmission pan gasket from leaking? I replaced the one on the 727 a year ago or so, just a cork thing... but it has leaked off and on constantly and now is a real mess maker. I snugged up the bolts a little more, but seems to have had little effect. I did take into account that with the cork gasket you don't crank the crap outta the bolts, but it's pretty much too tight now I'm sure. Anyway, the silly thing has always leaked. Anybody have some hints? =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0TIA! =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Steve =A0 aka =A0 JeepNut - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 06:16:47 GMT From: Robert Barry Subject: Re: fsj: "Test Plugs" for air injection system on a 360? >>Is there a good source out there for "test plugs" for the air rails on the >>exhaust manifolds of my '85 GW engine? > >A: They are 14mm, the same as sparkplugs. I tapped the manifold holes for my 360 with a 9/16"NF tap, and the replacement Jeep banjo-bolts were the 9/16"NF threads as well. It does use the same-diameter washers as a 14mm sparkplug uses. ________________________________________________ Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 03:48:56 EDT From: DSandelands-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Manual trans with Quadra-trac? Hi all, I am new to full size jeeps having recently purchased a "project" '77 wide track Cherokee with a 401 V8, quadra-trac ("QT"), and the venerable TH400 automatic. The truck needs to have just about everything rebuilt, but its a clean So. Cal. car with a virtually rust free body and it runs. I have a few questions. Does anyone know if a manual trans can be used with the QT? Also, as I understand it, emergency drive ("ED") locks the transfer case and splits torque 50-50 between the front and rear differentials. So if I install locking front hubs and run with the hubs unlocked in ED what do I get? Two wheel drive? Would this inflict undue wear and tear on the QT? Any opinions or first hand experience with either of these ideas would be appreciated. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:49:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Manual trans with Quadra-trac? A: The QT never came with a std trans, but someone probably has done it (I think the 401 would be a little hard on it, and 401 std flywheels are ultra rare. Usually, people have to rebalance a 304 or 360 flywheel to work) A D20 would be better I think, but I'm not a '70's FSJ drivetrain expert. ED with the front shaft out will give you 2WD, but someone else will have to explain about wear (see above) I do know there is a part time kit from Mile Marker that basically makes a QT into a 208 (mechanically) I don't know if the sun gear in the QT can take the shock loads of a std trans and 401. Dave wrote: Hi all, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I am new to full size jeeps having recently purchased a "project" '77 wide track Cherokee with a 401 V8, quadra-trac ("QT"), and the venerable TH400 automatic. The truck needs to have just about everything rebuilt, but its a clean So. Cal. car with a virtually rust free body and it runs. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I have a few questions. Does anyone know if a manual trans can be used with the QT? Also, as I understand it, emergency drive ("ED") locks the transfer case and splits torque 50-50 between the front and rear differentials. So if I install locking front hubs and run with the hubs unlocked in ED what do I get? Two wheel drive? Would this inflict undue wear and tear on the QT? Any opinions or first hand experience with either of these ideas would be appreciated. Dave ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:47:14 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: starters >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 22:08:37 EDT >From: Grtdaneguy-at-aol.com >Subject: fsj: 81 wagoneer > > My wagon won't start! When I turn the key it just clicks once. I just >replaced the battery and the starter solenoid. Is there anyway to chech the >starter without ripping it off???? Does anyone have suggestions on what else >to look for??? Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks Joe Joe, if it just clicks... it's the starter. I did mine in less time than it took for me to take pictures of the process. You don't even need to disconnect the battery. :) There are 2-9/16" bolts holding it in, and one 3/8" holding the cable from the solenoid. I've had to replace the starter on Old Blue about 3 times... now, once on Superdawg... (he has a 258 though). john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:08:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: '88 2dr Cherokee for $1000 (overheats) It's a 4.0L auto, and I think the head gasket is gone. Anyone interested, drop me a line (not mine) and I'll check it out. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:03:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: starters A: Soon, I will have not one, but 4 spare starters to sell! (I have to use the XJ 4.0L mitsu starter with the stroker setup, due to flywheel incompatibility) Usually, it's best to check the starter in vehicle, to save the time of pulling it out, when nothing is wrong with it. (ie: bad cables, poor battery connnection due to corrosion) The bolts tend to come loose on them too, and the ground wire can go bad, or break off the block! I put on new cable ends (if the cables look okay and the wire isn't GREEN inside), then clean AND dry the battery posts (Bare clean lead is shiny. Corroded lead is mottled grey) and make sure the solenoid connections are tight and not corroded. Test the battery for voltage drop, jump the solenoid, and THEN I replace the starter! John wrote: =A0=A0My wagon won't start! When I turn the key it just clicks once. I just replaced the battery and the starter solenoid. Is there anyway to chech the starter without ripping it off???? Does anyone have suggestions on what else to look for??? Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks Joe Joe, if it just clicks... it's the starter. I did mine in less time than it took for me to take pictures of the process. You don't even need to disconnect the battery. :) There are 2-9/16" bolts holding it in, and one 3/8" holding the cable from the solenoid. I've had to replace the starter on Old Blue about 3 times... now, once on Superdawg... (he has a 258 though). john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:18:25 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: Loud clunking in front right wheel Hi! I was wondering, does my 80 J-10 Honcho, have U-joints in the front wheels like in the Quadra -trac's? I got this loud clunking noise, when I turn, almost sounds like a u-joint snap, feel the vibration to my side on the floor when it happens. not only is it annoying , but it is worrying me, in the potential damage it is causing. any ideas? Thanks! R.J. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:20:36 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: some new tech pix replaced the starter last night on Superdawg, lubed the driveshaft/u-joints and OME springs on superpup and otherwise rolled around underneath with the digital camera... ;) http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/SJ-258-skidplate.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/STARTER-258/ http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/XJ-doublecardan-frontshaft.jpg and so on... look for May 16 dates http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/ http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/ john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:33:27 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] 79 TSM??? http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/79_vac_diagram.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/engines/4.2L-vacuum-diagrams-84/ just found a few more untitled pix on my hard drive, will upload to the FSJ/tech section later... check back. john At 03:25 PM 5/16/00 -0500, R.J. Baynum wrote: >Ask John M, over at his list, he has my old 79 wag TSM.. I'll forward it over.. >Can you help ..John? >Thanks! > >R.J. > > > >Andy wrote: > >> Hey folks, >> >> Ok, I NEED help, anyone got a 79 TSM? I need a vacuum diagram for the 360. I >> was sitting looking at the intake today, thinking somethings very messed up >> (I just transfered the old intake/carb to the new engine) vacuum port, to >> vacuum port to vacuum port... Makes sense doesn't it :) You would think w/ >> all that vacuum theres available in that line, you'd have something >> connected to it :) Heh, the farther I get into this engine, the more >> confused I get :) I cant for the life of me understand how the DAMN THING >> RAN :) >> >> Andy >> 79 Wagoneer LTD >> Calgary Alberta Canada (Eh!) >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here: >> http://click.egroups.com/1/4054/7/_/696737/_/958450458/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> To Subscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-subscribe-at-egroups.com >> To Unsubscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-unsubscribe-at-egroups.com Visit Our homepage: http://www.egroups.com/group/1FSJ > - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:25:18 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] 79 TSM??? Ask John M, over at his list, he has my old 79 wag TSM.. I'll forward it over.. Can you help ..John? Thanks! R.J. Andy wrote: > Hey folks, > > Ok, I NEED help, anyone got a 79 TSM? I need a vacuum diagram for the 360. I > was sitting looking at the intake today, thinking somethings very messed up > (I just transfered the old intake/carb to the new engine) vacuum port, to > vacuum port to vacuum port... Makes sense doesn't it :) You would think w/ > all that vacuum theres available in that line, you'd have something > connected to it :) Heh, the farther I get into this engine, the more > confused I get :) I cant for the life of me understand how the DAMN THING > RAN :) > > Andy > 79 Wagoneer LTD > Calgary Alberta Canada (Eh!) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here: > http://click.egroups.com/1/4054/7/_/696737/_/958450458/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To Subscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-subscribe-at-egroups.com > To Unsubscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-unsubscribe-at-egroups.com Visit Our homepage: http://www.egroups.com/group/1FSJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:14:32 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: Loud clunking in front right wheel Sure does! And worth the extra $$ to have the shop press the old ones out! kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.J. Baynum" To: <1FSJ-at-egroups.com> Cc: Sent: Tuesday, 16 May, 2000 14:18 Subject: fsj: Loud clunking in front right wheel > Hi! > I was wondering, does my 80 J-10 Honcho, have U-joints in the front wheels like in > the Quadra -trac's? > I got this loud clunking noise, when I turn, almost sounds like a u-joint snap, feel > the vibration to my side on the floor when it happens. not only is it annoying , but > it is worrying me, in the potential damage it is causing. > any ideas? > > > Thanks! > > R.J. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:09:49 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: Loud clunking in front right wheel Does it "Clunk" Once every time you turn, or is it a continuous "Clunking" while you are turning? JC Jones :) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Kim Smith Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:15 PM To: R.J. Baynum; 1FSJ-at-egroups.com Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: Re: Loud clunking in front right wheel Sure does! And worth the extra $$ to have the shop press the old ones out! kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.J. Baynum" To: <1FSJ-at-egroups.com> Cc: Sent: Tuesday, 16 May, 2000 14:18 Subject: fsj: Loud clunking in front right wheel > Hi! > I was wondering, does my 80 J-10 Honcho, have U-joints in the front wheels like in > the Quadra -trac's? > I got this loud clunking noise, when I turn, almost sounds like a u-joint snap, feel > the vibration to my side on the floor when it happens. not only is it annoying , but > it is worrying me, in the potential damage it is causing. > any ideas? > > > Thanks! > > R.J. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:47:54 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Miles to the Gallon]] Michael Shimniok writes: >> Do you wash & polish your vehicle? Dirt-- or the woodgrain trim-- surely induces drag. :) What grade of fuel? What temps? How long does i= t take you to accelerate to 60mph driving normally (no lead foot?) Was it = a 1-owner vehicle? You've had it a long, long time so it's had a chance to= wear in to your driving pattern...? I'm clutching at straws to explain this... Basically what I'm saying here is you have yourself an anomalous vehicle;= most everyone else gets 8-10mpg with their QT-equipped rigs, GWs seem to do 10-13mpg. City, that is. Most of us would love to see high 15's on the highway or 13mpg city consistently. << I wax it twice a year. In the Fall and again in the Spring. Last time I d= id it was about 18 months ago :-). No woodgrain. Just some big fender flares/scoops. I run 87 octane unleaded. It doesn't like 85.5 octane because it vapor locks much easier. Around here it is all 87 octane, but I don't have to g= o too far east before I run into the 85.5 stuff. Real long acceleration times hurt mileage. The best for mileage is "brisk" acceleration followed by maintaining cruising speed closely. If you're constantly accelerating and decelerating, you're hurting economy. I've had it since 1986 when it had 34,000 on the odo. I'm the second owner. It's had a lot of time to become accustomed to my driving style. The warmer the ambient temp., the better my gas mileage. I only get around 11 MPG in the city. But my commute involves an 800 ft. elevation change. Going home I climb 800 ft. followed by a 200-250 decent. In the morning, I go back up 200-250 ft. and back down 800 ft. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:47:52 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Leaky Gasket JeepNut writes: >> I did take into account that with the cork gasket you don't crank the crap outta the bolts, but it's pretty much too tight now I'm sure. Anyway= , the silly thing has always leaked. Anybody have some hints? << Steve, YOu didn't use any silicone with the cork gasket that would keep the oil from soaking into the cork did you? Cork swells when oil soaked. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:47:46 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Testing/Adjusting dashboard voltage regu Robert Barry writes: >> What might be a procedure for testing the '74-'85 style voltage-regulator that supplies 5V (?) to the dashboard instruments? I've= got a spare temp-gauge I'd like to test before I install it. I'm imaginin= g hooking 12V+ from the truck battery to the input, grounding the case, and= measuring the voltage from the stud that feeds the rest of the dash? Is anyone familiar with what specific voltage readings I should be seeing? I= s there anyway to adjust the voltage output on this? << The only way I can think of it would be to hook-up an oscilloscope and measure the duty cycle and calculate the voltage. The regulator is mechanical. The little heater thingie heats-up, breaks contact, cools off= and reconnects. A guess would be about 1 second on, 1 second off. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:47:53 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: NEC Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com writes: >> I am sure it is possible to push more current then this table indicates; but if you do, you start approaching the boundaries of safety and you just have to ask yourself is it worth the risk? << I forgot who it was who said shorter lengths of wire can handle a lot more than the max. NEC rating. That's true. In an ammeter equip'd FSJ, we= re talking about 12 feet of 10 gauge wire around the loop from the alternato= r to the battery. That's where I'm basing my guess that a FSJ's stock wirin= g can handle about 50 amps continuous. Since usually only 1/2 of the 12 ft.= is carrying most of the load at any one time, it's probably higher still.= But 50 amps is a nice conservative number. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:00:05 -0700 From: Ed Pedersen Subject: fsj: Looking for Wag Please reply direct to Lynn... Lynn, I don't know of any thing off-hand, but I'll forward your request to one of the lists I'm on and we'll see if they can help.. BTW Where are you? At 09:13 AM 15/05/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > >MUST BE a 2 DOOR > >For Power Window and Power Seat pieces.... > >IE I need the complete 2 doors and the two seats.....color unimportant...just the mechanisms > >Body condition of doors not importatnt as long a power window components are not bent...or broken... > >Lynn Reed >midrange-at-alltel.net > > Ed Pedersen Vancouver Canada ICQ 23536957 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:05:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Looking for Wag A: What year? If it's around an '88 and not a full size Grand Wagoneer, then it's the same as the '84 up Cherokee (It's an XJ. I just got one today, but not for long, or I'll have to sell Elmo my '83 Cherokee SJ full size!) Maybe that's an idea. Sell Elmo, and just fix this thing up for my wife (I'll keep Blackie for me!) The 2 door and 4 door full size use the same doors. Please reply direct to Lynn... At 09:13 AM 15/05/00 -0700, you wrote: MUST BE a 2 DOOR For Power Window and Power Seat pieces.... IE I need the complete 2 doors and the two seats.....color unimportant... just the mechanisms Body condition of doors not importatnt as long a power window components are not bent...or broken... Lynn Reed midrange-at-alltel.net Ed Pedersen Vancouver Canada ICQ 23536957 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:42:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: I'm about to do a bad, bad thing! Elmo is going up for sale. (I've thought about it for 2 seconds and figure the XJ will be better for highway cruising to Canada and back) '83 Chero 4dr body along with '84 GW frame (rust free). 3.31 ratio axles (D44 front M20 rear), a runnable 4.2L that needs a headgasket installed (the engine was my spare, and the head is off Elmo's old 4.2L engine) 999 auto trans, but I'm using the NP208 (NP229 that needs VC included) and various other parts (not the nice new goodies though! ) I'm starting at $500 and working from there. (rear 1/4 panels and rockers w/o rust included) Bushguard too. PS: Blackie is NOT for sale! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #856 *************************