From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed May 17 20:48:08 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, May 17 2000 Volume 01 : Number 857 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: ammeters Re: fsj: some new tech pix Re: [fsj: ammeters] Re: [fsj: Leaky Gasket] fsj: some new tech pix (starter ring replacement) RE: [fsj: Leaky Gasket] fsj: Re: got or know where I can get info on... fsj: U-joint questions... fsj: AMC I-6 Performance Mods (from the AMC-list) fsj: Loud clunking in front right wheel Re: [fsj: ammeters] Re: [fsj: ammeters] Re: fsj: U-joint questions... Re: [fsj: Leaky Gasket] FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:56:04 -0500 From: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Subject: fsj: ammeters All of this talk about problems with the ammeters and large amounts of current entering the cab and causing fires got me to thinking. Has anyone considered converting to the type of ammeter that just clamps around a wire to measure the amount of current flowing through it? This would eliminate the problem of having all of that current from flowing through the meter in the cab. Replacing it with a small signal current. Later, Jamie Phillips '73 J4600 '77 F250 home email: jphil78888-at-aol.com work email: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com ********* Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer ********** This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please delete the e-mail and any attachments and notify Underwriters Laboratories Inc. at e-mail_Disclaimer-at-us.ul.com. UL does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments that arise as a result of e-mail transmission. ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:41:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: Re: fsj: some new tech pix John, from taking a look at your starteropening pic, your starter ring looks a bit chewed up. If you ever have to seperate the tranny from the engine, I'd replace the flex plate...or is it a manual, in which case you can just turn it around... Greg __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 00 11:19:12 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: ammeters] Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com wrote: > Has anyone considered converting to the type of ammeter that just clamp= s > around a wire to measure the amount of current flowing through it? Thi= s > would eliminate the problem of having all of that current from flowing > through the meter in the cab. Replacing it with a small signal current= =2E Good question. I think someone also mentioned a shunt type ammeter which= presumably shunts a fraction of the actual current thru it by offering a = fair amount of resistance and running in parallel to the wire containing the current you're wanting to measure. With the wire loop thing... seems like I remember that the current thru t= he wire the loop is wrapped around would have to change to induce current in= the loop. Static current wouldn't induce any current in the loop, I believe.= I know that that is true of the magnetic field anyway. :) Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 00 11:27:50 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Leaky Gasket] Michael Baxter wrote: > JeepNut writes: > >> I did take into account that with the cork gasket you don't crank th= e > >> crap outta the bolts, but it's pretty much too tight now I'm sure. > >> Anyway,the silly thing has always leaked. Anybody have some hints? > Steve, YOu didn't use any silicone with the cork gasket that would keep= > the oil from soaking into the cork did you? Cork swells when oil soaked= =2E Err... so... should one NOT treat the cork gasket??? I treated my tranny pan gasket with RTV when I put it in, and the gasket hemmoraged out of the front of the pan and now I have a pretty substantia= l leak there. The previous gasket I treated with gasket sealant and it las= ted about 15-20k miles before leaking like a sieve all the way around. Gaskets baffle me. I have leaks all over my truck, everywhere I've repla= ced a gasket. Can you tell I'm relatively new to the fine arts of wrenching? = Can anyone offer advice on what types of sealant or RTV (if any) to use on wh= ich types of gaskets? 1. Timing Cover 2. Water Pump 3. Thermostat housing 4. Differential cover 5. Transmission 6. Oil pan (cork, rubber) 7. Valve cover Any other tips as to how much to apply, etc? J.C. gave me some good advi= ce awhile back, but wasn't sure which gaskets it applied to. TIA, Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:39:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: fsj: some new tech pix (starter ring replacement) - --- john wrote: > yeah, I noticed that... so on a flywheel you can > just turn it around? :) (it has the t-5) You can heat up the ring (I've used a simple propane torch), which will expand it, then just turn it around. The ring is just held on by the fact that it cools, then contracts. The procedure I used is: - - Place the flywheel/ring combo (so the flywheel face is down) on a few bricks...the bricks are only touching the ring. Put some wood under the flywheel. - - With the torch, heat the ring. Maybe tapping the flywheel when you feel that you have it hot enough. When the ring expands, the flywheel will drop out of the ring (onto the wood). - - continue to heat the ring for a bit longer...expanding it some more... - - when sufficiently expanded, grab the ring with pliers, move the bricks out of the way and put the ring back on the flywheel (reversed, of course). The ring should fully mate to the flywheel...you shouldn't need to tap it, but if you have to, do so... Pretty easy...I don't know what a flywheel ring costs, but in High School, I didn't have any money and this works just fine. One thing... You will find that the flywheel ring is usually worn on one or maybe a couple places. Because the engine usually stops in the same place. Mark the flywheel when taking it off the crank for installation in the same orientation. When installing the ring, rotate it so the heavy wear spot is in a different location... Doing this will insure a ring life equal to a new ring. For an auto tranny, they use a flex plate that has the ring welded to the plate...can't do anything there... good luck...Greg __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:50:02 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: RE: [fsj: Leaky Gasket] Ok, this is a trick I learned while reconditioning used cars for a car lot that warranteed it's used cars. If you use that Yellow Weatherstrip adhesive (We always called it Gorilla Snot) on both sides (very thin coating) of any cork oil seal gasket it WILL NOT LEAK as long as you don't OVERTIGHTEN the bolts. The primary problem with using the weatherstrip adhesive is that you will practically need an air grinder to remove the gasket remains from the pan if you ever have to remove the gasket. However, on my own vehicles (as I am anticipating that I might want to get the gasket off again someday) I use a very thin coating of OEM Black Silicone sealant on both sides of the gasket, let it cure for about 10 minutes and install the gasket (I have never had one leak on me yet). You can, however, use no sealant and just use the cork gasket but you have to be very careful to torque the bolts exactly right and in a "star" pattern or it will definetely leak. The biggest cause of gaskets leaking is overtightening and "mushing" the gasket out thereby causing a leak. Another thing to do is to "fix" the dimples in the pan where the bolt holes are before applying the new gasket, this can be easilly accomplished with a ball-pin hammer and a block of wood. JC Jones :) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Michael Shimniok Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 11:28 AM To: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [fsj: Leaky Gasket] Michael Baxter wrote: > JeepNut writes: > >> I did take into account that with the cork gasket you don't crank the > >> crap outta the bolts, but it's pretty much too tight now I'm sure. > >> Anyway,the silly thing has always leaked. Anybody have some hints? > Steve, YOu didn't use any silicone with the cork gasket that would keep > the oil from soaking into the cork did you? Cork swells when oil soaked. Err... so... should one NOT treat the cork gasket??? I treated my tranny pan gasket with RTV when I put it in, and the gasket hemmoraged out of the front of the pan and now I have a pretty substantial leak there. The previous gasket I treated with gasket sealant and it lasted about 15-20k miles before leaking like a sieve all the way around. Gaskets baffle me. I have leaks all over my truck, everywhere I've replaced a gasket. Can you tell I'm relatively new to the fine arts of wrenching? Can anyone offer advice on what types of sealant or RTV (if any) to use on which types of gaskets? 1. Timing Cover 2. Water Pump 3. Thermostat housing 4. Differential cover 5. Transmission 6. Oil pan (cork, rubber) 7. Valve cover Any other tips as to how much to apply, etc? J.C. gave me some good advice awhile back, but wasn't sure which gaskets it applied to. TIA, Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:37:03 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: got or know where I can get info on... At 10:40 AM 5/17/00 -0700, Barry wrote: >>>> ...what the control knobs for the heating/air-conditioning on an '81 Cherokee do? Heater controls consist of a horizontal slide from "cool" to "heat", there's the fan switch from low to high, and three pushbuttons: off, heat, defrost. <<<< yes, there are separate heat, a/c and vent controls on your rig. The systems are totally independent of each other, which I think is pretty cool, no pun indended. :) >>>> A/C controls consist of two knobs on the unit below the dash, one for fan speed, one for degree of coldness. And the dash has two pull-out knobs that I presume are for vents to outside air. Recently acquired the vehicle & about all I can get to work is the defrost. Before I presume that there's stuff to fix, I need to rule out Operator Error. <<<< Operator appears to be fine. :) A/c is probably broken, and you may not be able to feel the vents unless you're moving. :) >>>> How is one supposed to use these controls? Do you know where I could find out, short of conducting archaeological expeditions in search of an original owner's manual? <<<< I usually leave my heater controls set to cold, defrost and fan off. This way air flows through the defroster to the windshield while driving down the road. I open the vents when parked and even have them open sometimes with the heater and a/c on. The a/c is nice to run when the windows fog up in the winter or during rain. It helps clear the windows and the heater works well enough to keep the cab warmed... I think it's a very cool setup... In 86 they integrated the controls for heat and a/c onto the dash... :) >>>> AND... Your site is awesome. THANK YOU for putting it up. <<<< ur welcome, john >>>> <<<< - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:00:24 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: U-joint questions... Ok, I checked the U-joints on my rig... they felt tight, no play... they've only been on the rig maybe 30,000 or so miles... I lubed them and some of the noises seemed to have gone away... I'm not sure if I'm dealing with a U-joint problem or a problem with bearings or disk brakes or what... with 200,000 plus miles on it I'm not sure any more where the noises are coming from... ;) Anyway, my question is: HOW LONG do U-Joints last in "normal" use? How does one determine if they are "bad"? (I'm pretty sure that wiggling them is not the final answer... ;) thanx, john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:38:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: AMC I-6 Performance Mods (from the AMC-list) From: Greg Taylor Subject: Re: AMC I-6 Performance Mods (was Headers on I-6) Another EXCELLENT modification for the Inline-6 is the Small Block Chevy valve conversion (yes, Chevy parts can get some GOOD use here!). I performed this swap on a 1983 Spirit GT 258 head (9.2:1 compression) with 1.94 Intakes and 1.50 Exhausts ( CUT DOWN TO 1.45 for a STOCK bore . I used the Milodon megaflow STAINLESS STEEL valves that have the undercut stem in the intake port runner. I used all Chevy springs, keepers, retainers, seals and bronze valve guides with the AMC 3/8" stem OD and the Cnevy 11/32" stem ID. Springs were installed at 1.70" Chevy height (suggested with kit from PAW) which required a little spring seat cutting. After all was said and done, parts and labor was around $400-$440. The head was reinstalled on a stock engine and it made a VERY NOTICEABLE amount POWER & TORQUE. I would estimate it to be 35 HP more (no flames please) due to huge increase of low RPM flow. Later, I installed this head on my CJ-5 258 with an Offy D-port manifold and Holley 390 CFM 4-bbl carb. The engine had gobs of power ... enough that about 4 weeks after the swap, I burnt the clutch-up from the extra power. This engine was too a totally stock engine minus the emmisions setup. I would estimate that this engine with the head/manifold/carb (no headers ... wouldn't fit) was making around 200 HP. If someone is looking for more power, but needs to pass emissions, I would highly recommend swapping to the Chevy valves. Sincerely, Greg Taylor :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:12:26 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Loud clunking in front right wheel "R.J. Baynum" writes: >> I was wondering, does my 80 J-10 Honcho, have U-joints in the front wheels like in the Quadra -trac's? I got this loud clunking noise, when I= turn, almost sounds like a u-joint snap, feel the vibration to my side on= the floor when it happens. not only is it annoying , but it is worrying m= e, in the potential damage it is causing. any ideas? << That's exactly what my '79 Wag. was doing when the right side axle u-joint went bad. And yes, you have the u-joints as well. The open knuckl= e axles were used from '73-74ish on up. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 17-May-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:12:41 -0500 From: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Subject: Re: [fsj: ammeters] Michael Shimniok wrote: >With the wire loop thing... seems like I remember that the current thru the >wire the loop is wrapped around would have to change to induce current in the >loop. Static current wouldn't induce any current in the loop, I believe. I >know that that is true of the magnetic field anyway. :) Actually, I wasn't considering a loop. As you mentioned, in order to induce any current into that loop would require a current that is changing. I was talking about the current sensing devices commonly used in high current DC measurement. The main component involved with this is a "Hall Effect" device. It is similar to a transistor but the base is biased by electromagnetic flux. To measure DC current in a cable using this device, you simply clamp a donut shaped core around the cable. This core then has a small gap into which the "Hall Effect" device is placed. Now, the greater the amount of current flowing through the cable, the greater the amount of electromagnetic flux. You are now able to get a signal through the "Hall Effect" device that is indicative of the amount of flux flowing through the core which is indicative of the amount of current flowing through the cable. Later, Jamie Phillips '73 J4600 '77 F250 home email: jphil78888-at-aol.com work email: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com ********* Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer ********** This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please delete the e-mail and any attachments and notify Underwriters Laboratories Inc. at e-mail_Disclaimer-at-us.ul.com. UL does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments that arise as a result of e-mail transmission. ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:55:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: [fsj: ammeters] A: An inductive pickup at the alternator with a gauge in the dash would be my choice. Then a wire from there to the battery direct. It will only show alt output, but that's enough for me to tell if something is wrong! (Usually) Michael Shimniok wrote: With the wire loop thing... seems like I remember that the current thru the wire the loop is wrapped around would have to change to induce current in the loop. Static current wouldn't induce any current in the loop, I believe. I know that that is true of the magnetic field anyway. :) Jamie.L.Phillips wrote: Actually, I wasn't considering a loop. As you mentioned, in order to induce any current into that loop would require a current that is changing. I was talking about the current sensing devices commonly used in high current DC measurement. The main component involved with this is a "Hall Effect" device. It is similar to a transistor but the base is biased by electromagnetic flux. To measure DC current in a cable using this device, you simply clamp a donut shaped core around the cable. This core then has a small gap into which the "Hall Effect" device is placed. Now, the greater the amount of current flowing through the cable, the greater the amount of electromagnetic flux. You are now able to get a signal through the "Hall Effect" device that is indicative of the amount of flux flowing through the core which is indicative of the amount of current flowing through the cable. Later, Jamie Phillips '73 J4600 '77 F250 home email: jphil78888-at-aol.com work email: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:45:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: U-joint questions... A: It depends on how they were installed, (I manually lube any I install) driveline angles, whether or not you're lifted. I also tap them outwards to ensure they are loose. I get 50K or so (never had to re-replace any that I haven't broken due to brute force. AKA: My 426 Hemi powered Plymouth!) John M wrote: Ok, I checked the U-joints on my rig... they felt tight, no play... they've only been on the rig maybe 30,000 or so miles... I lubed them and some of the noises seemed to have gone away... I'm not sure if I'm dealing with a U-joint problem or a problem with bearings or disk brakes or what... with 200,000 plus miles on it I'm not sure any more where the noises are coming from... ;) Anyway, my question is: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0HOW LONG do U-Joints last in "normal" use? =A0 =A0 =A0 How does one determine if they are "bad"? =A0 =A0 =A0 (I'm pretty sure that wiggling them is not the final answer... ;) thanx, john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:04:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: [fsj: Leaky Gasket] A: 1: Shellac on timing cover gaskets. 2:, 3: I use a gasket, or silicone or both. (unless it has a rubber sealing ring) 4: I use Black silicone or dry (black silicone on M20s!) 5: When I have bad leakers, I use a very thin skim of black silicone with cork gaskets, on both sides that I let nearly dry before installing. Usually, I install them dry. 6: Dry with a dab at the corners and joints 7: Dry with cork or rubber, or Black silicone alone! Michael=A0Shimniok Michael Baxter wrote: JeepNut writes: I did take into account that with the cork gasket you don't crank the crap outta the bolts, but it's pretty much too tight now I'm sure. Anyway,the silly thing has always leaked. Anybody have some hints? Steve, YOu didn't use any silicone with the cork gasket that would keep the oil from soaking into the cork did you? Cork swells when oil soaked. Err... so... should one NOT treat the cork gasket??? I treated my tranny pan gasket with RTV when I put it in, and the gasket hemmoraged out of the front of the pan and now I have a pretty substantial leak there. The previous gasket I treated with gasket sealant and it lasted about 15-20k miles before leaking like a sieve all the way around. Gaskets baffle me. I have leaks all over my truck, everywhere I've replaced a gasket. Can you tell I'm relatively new to the fine arts of wrenching? Can anyone offer advice on what types of sealant or RTV (if any) to use on which types of gaskets? 1. Timing Cover 2. Water Pump 3. Thermostat housing 4. Differential cover 5. Transmission 6. Oil pan (cork, rubber) 7. Valve cover Any other tips as to how much to apply, etc? J.C. gave me some good advice awhile back, but wasn't sure which gaskets it applied to. TIA, Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #857 *************************