From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri May 19 20:19:44 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, May 19 2000 Volume 01 : Number 861 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [Re: fsj: Tim's questions on axles...] fsj: Gasket leaky Re: fsj: 1981 Wagoneer fsj: Re: NORS fsj: Third week into FSJ ownership (long). Re: [fsj: SUVs] fsj: NORS fsj: RE: NORS RE: [fsj: SUVs] fsj: we're all sorry... fsj: re: 44 pages and counting... fsj: another new look... fsj: RE: swap meet, monroe - FSJ fest FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 May 00 15:16:00 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [Re: fsj: Tim's questions on axles...] Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) wrote: > A: If it's a Jeep widetrack axle, it is wider than a NT axle, but the > same width as a J truck in the front. J truck rear axle is a little > wider than a Cherokee WT Err, I hear the spring perches on the J truck rear axles are different dimensions than the wagons. But are you sure the axle itself is wider? Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:22:19 -0500 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: Gasket leaky Hi Steve. Man, sorry about all the trouble you're having. My thoughts on pan gaskets is that they're generally not supposed to be under pressure from the fluid, meaning the fluid level belongs below the gasket line. (Not true for differential gaskets, so ...) Only that they are supposed to seal from occasional sloshing(everytime you hit the brakes ?) Are you filling to above the level of the pan ? A knowledgable friend of mine gave me the advice to always tighten in a circular pattern, not criss-cross for pan gaskets. And tighten progressively, so finger tight all the way around, then maybe a 1/2 turn each time around after that. - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:26:24 -0400 From: Robert Barry Subject: Re: fsj: 1981 Wagoneer At 04:54 PM 5/19/00 -0400, you wrote: > Sorry everyone, I'm located in Delaware. Joe Oh, man, that must be rough. Is there anything we can do for you? ________________________________________________ Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:24:36 -0400 From: Robert Barry Subject: fsj: Re: NORS At 04:54 PM 5/19/00 -0400, you wrote: >NOS stands for "New Old Stock." In other words, spare parts by the original [snip] >on e-bay. I emailed him to ask what NORS stood for, as I hadn't seen it in >13 years of buying resto parts. He said it was "New Old Replacement Stock." >I thought about it, and assumed that he was either new to the hobby, or used >to a different terminology and that I was getting a MOPAR part. (Notice the >assumed there.) Well, I got some cheap Nakamichi knock off piece of crap >which has no place on an original Road Runner. When I politely asked what >this was, and why didn't it have MOPAR stamps on it, I got a huffy email >back explaining that this is what NORS is. "It is an aftermarket >replacement!" (I obviously wasn't the first to question his new term he >invented to give credibility/value to a worthless part.) I've seen the term NORS used before, used as the guy defined it- a non-factory replacement part, designed as an exact replacement, rather than something that would work with modification. >Now someone explain this to me. If I'm buying a el cheapo non-original >part, why would I care if it was "old" or not? Who cares if this incorrect >piece of junk was built in 1970 or 2000, it is still the wrong part. I Well, here's an example of where a NORS part comes in handy. I needed a heater shut-off valve for my '69 Toronado with the Comfortron automatic climate control system. There is no current replacement part available from any manufacturer, and true NOS parts are prohibitively expensive (>$100, if you can find one). There is an Olds specialty parts place in CT, however, that was able to sell me a correct, though not factory, replacement for this piece for about $20; it came in an old box, from a manufacturer I never heard of. It works as it should, even though I might lose a point or two at a national show- this is not a show-car, but a cruise-night car anyway. I'm not claiming he represented his part fairly; just that there is a place for NORS parts when current aftermarket parts are not available. ________________________________________________ Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:28:05 EDT From: DSandelands-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Third week into FSJ ownership (long). Just a few musings. I am into my third week with a '77 cherokee, 401v8, auto, QT. I haven't turned a wrench since high school and have forgotten how time consuming even routine maintence can be. Changing the fluids in the engine, front and rear diff's, transfer case, and the auto trans took an entire day. Not to mention it was a dirty, greasy, messy job. This was weekend one. Weekend two. The engine had an annoying habit of not starting from time to time. Traced this intermittant failure down to a bad ignition switch. Replaced the ignition switch and the neutral start switch for good measure. The problem hasn't reocurred so I guess its fixed. Still carrying a multi-meter in the rig just in case though. Weekend three. Failed the California smog test. Great. Fortuneatly, the tech pointed me in the right direction and testing with a vacum gage indicated the EGR CTO switch was bad as the tech had suggested. You would think one could readily find a CTO switch in LA, but no..., the closest switch was in Colorado! Called the dealership had the switch shipped out. Installing it and getting through smog will be weekend 4's project. My thanks to M. Baxter for his write up on adjusting the stearing gearbox. I was able to get rid of about 4 inches of play following his method and now the steering feels nice and tight. Except the pump leaks where the high pressure hose goes into the rear of housing. Of course thats right through a hole in a bracket so you can't really see what's happening. Fixing that will be some other weekend's project. I am giving "project" jeep a rest for awhile. Did some research on a trans swap. Seems like a TH700R4 is the easiest swap. The 700r4 would suck substantially less power off of the engine and I guess if I can't figure out a way to retrofit a manual it will have to do. Advanced adapters makes a transfer case adapter for the 700r4, but its expensive at about $500. If anyone knows of another way to mate the 700r4 to the QT please let me know. Another possiblility which I haven't had time to check out is the 4L80E. Possibly, the TH400 tailshaft would bolt in, but even if it did, this swap would have extensive computer control issues. Finally, does anyone know if the Spicer 18 is a direct bolt in for a QT. I.e., would the front and rear drive shafts need to be modified? I really want a manual trans even if I have to change transfer cases to get it. Dave 2000 Mercury Cougar, V6, mtx 1977 Jeep Cherokee, 401V8, atx (i.e., slush box) ------------------------------ Date: 19 May 00 15:42:05 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: SUVs] Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) wrote: > A: I wrote this in Delphi forums today: > SUV owners are not responsible for the environmental problems caused= > by their vehicles = Err... uhh... not to start a war, just discussing. I DO feel very much responsible for any impact I and my Wagoneer have on the environment-- off-road. That's why I always try my best to tread lightly, and to haul = off trash from the wilderness instead of leaving it behind. How many extremi= st environmentalists go out on trail cleanup duties? The following is aimed at the environazis who would convince everyone tha= t I and others like me in my heavy, fuel-inefficient V8 powered vehicle shoul= d be dragged out into the town square and shot (not burned, as that would crea= te harmful emissions). I am not convinced that my vehicle is the cause of any significant environmental damage, given all the tests I must pass and all the emissio= ns gear designed to reduce its emissions significantly, and given the many o= ther sources of pollution. There are several facets to the issue of emissions= and environmental preservation. First, the battle should be fought in other countries that don't give a r= ip about the environment and have no standards or controls in place. Mexico= City isn't at the bottom of the entire world's clean air list because everyone= drives SUVs. Second the battle should be fought against companies that pollute the environment here and abroad rather than against hapless individuals. Third, if we as humans continue to grow in population and continue to spr= ead out over the land (in America, anyway) taking no responsibility for our population or our land and resources use there won't be much of an enviro= nment left to protect outside of National and State Parks. But that's ok, beca= use we'll die of thirst due to water overuse or find our demise in the overus= e of some resource or another... Fourth, fight the battle in the arena of housing construction, since so m= any excellent practises are possible to reduce energy consumption of a house = by a significant margin. Anyone who owns a typical refrigerator, which runs a= t an astonishing 1500W day in and day out, has little business on the environmentalist soapbox. Not counting the dozens of other devices we us= e to waste energy. Not counting the dozens of things we buy that come in pack= ages that we throw away which goes into landfills and degrades at least someti= me before the sun burns out. Finally, at least in my city, lots of work could be done on public transportation to encourage folks to use their cars less. I for one like= living near my work and don't do a lot of distance commuting daily so I r= eally don't use a great deal of gas and therefore don't pollute as bad as if I = were living 30 miles away and commuting in 5mph highway traffic. Unfortunatel= y, the American culture is one in which independence in one's vehicle is pri= me. Perhaps we should work with this very ingrained cultural practise and encourage more LPG conversions, and bonuses or benefits for alternate fue= ls or hybrid vehicles beyond the right to use the HOV lane. I would seriously consider LPG as a viable option if I knew I could fuel up before and afte= r the trail run and knew that I could be unequivocally exempt from the hassles = and expenses of emissions testing. It's cheaper, far cleaner burning than gasoline, but hard to come by. Perhaps licensing and tax rebates or even= exemptions on hybrid vehicles (gas/electric) would help. Frankly I like my truck, I enjoy four-wheeling and many other hobbies and= I'm damned sick of people coming along telling me I'm not politically correct= and that I must abandon my own personal pursuit of happiness because they say= so. = A smattering of hard thinking could produce some viable, helpful compromi= ses. = We have a lot of areas in which we could make some big differences. Why = pick on me? Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:31:41 -0500 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: NORS NORS I thought it meant 'Made in Norway' - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:16:26 -0500 From: "Bob Bradfield,MCSE" Subject: fsj: RE: NORS - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Landon Tesar Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 4:32 PM To: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: NORS NORS I thought it meant 'Made in Norway' - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:25:04 -0500 From: "Bob Bradfield,MCSE" Subject: RE: [fsj: SUVs] I agree with almost everything you wrote but, you must realize, this is a concerted effort by those FAR extreme enviro-nuts, not the typical earth lover. You will never please these people, you waste time and energy in the attempt. I'm talking about those who would have us roll back the date to the early 15th century. When asked, I think 99.99% of all people would respond that cleaner air, land and water would be a good thing. This is not what these nuts are looking for. Look at the Uni-Bomber for a typical enviro-nut. Not that these folks run around blowing things up but, how he lived is how they think we should all live. Don't mis-understand their true goals. To them, we are not a part of nature, we are the enemy. Remember the study based on Mt. Saint Helens? More 'green house' gas was spewed by that thing in a month than by all cars ever driven on earth, TOTAL. I think we should ban volcanoes. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Michael Shimniok Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 4:42 PM To: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [fsj: SUVs] Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) wrote: > A: I wrote this in Delphi forums today: > SUV owners are not responsible for the environmental problems caused > by their vehicles Err... uhh... not to start a war, just discussing. I DO feel very much responsible for any impact I and my Wagoneer have on the environment-- off-road. That's why I always try my best to tread lightly, and to haul off trash from the wilderness instead of leaving it behind. How many extremist environmentalists go out on trail cleanup duties? The following is aimed at the environazis who would convince everyone that I and others like me in my heavy, fuel-inefficient V8 powered vehicle should be dragged out into the town square and shot (not burned, as that would create harmful emissions). I am not convinced that my vehicle is the cause of any significant environmental damage, given all the tests I must pass and all the emissions gear designed to reduce its emissions significantly, and given the many other sources of pollution. There are several facets to the issue of emissions and environmental preservation. First, the battle should be fought in other countries that don't give a rip about the environment and have no standards or controls in place. Mexico City isn't at the bottom of the entire world's clean air list because everyone drives SUVs. Second the battle should be fought against companies that pollute the environment here and abroad rather than against hapless individuals. Third, if we as humans continue to grow in population and continue to spread out over the land (in America, anyway) taking no responsibility for our population or our land and resources use there won't be much of an environment left to protect outside of National and State Parks. But that's ok, because we'll die of thirst due to water overuse or find our demise in the overuse of some resource or another... Fourth, fight the battle in the arena of housing construction, since so many excellent practises are possible to reduce energy consumption of a house by a significant margin. Anyone who owns a typical refrigerator, which runs at an astonishing 1500W day in and day out, has little business on the environmentalist soapbox. Not counting the dozens of other devices we use to waste energy. Not counting the dozens of things we buy that come in packages that we throw away which goes into landfills and degrades at least sometime before the sun burns out. Finally, at least in my city, lots of work could be done on public transportation to encourage folks to use their cars less. I for one like living near my work and don't do a lot of distance commuting daily so I really don't use a great deal of gas and therefore don't pollute as bad as if I were living 30 miles away and commuting in 5mph highway traffic. Unfortunately, the American culture is one in which independence in one's vehicle is prime. Perhaps we should work with this very ingrained cultural practise and encourage more LPG conversions, and bonuses or benefits for alternate fuels or hybrid vehicles beyond the right to use the HOV lane. I would seriously consider LPG as a viable option if I knew I could fuel up before and after the trail run and knew that I could be unequivocally exempt from the hassles and expenses of emissions testing. It's cheaper, far cleaner burning than gasoline, but hard to come by. Perhaps licensing and tax rebates or even exemptions on hybrid vehicles (gas/electric) would help. Frankly I like my truck, I enjoy four-wheeling and many other hobbies and I'm damned sick of people coming along telling me I'm not politically correct and that I must abandon my own personal pursuit of happiness because they say so. A smattering of hard thinking could produce some viable, helpful compromises. We have a lot of areas in which we could make some big differences. Why pick on me? Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 15:44:23 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: we're all sorry... > >> Sorry everyone, I'm located in Delaware. Joe > >We're sorry, too! yep. john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 15:51:06 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: re: 44 pages and counting... >Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: 44 pages!!! > >A: Having been to John's house several times (a couple times in daylight >hours!) I think the cure is tear down the old garage, and move the house >north as far as legally allowed, then put the garage on the south side >and the garden can stay where it is! (I was laughing so hard when I >thought of this, I could hardly type!) Maybe John should just cut back >into the hill and build his garage there! That way it would be 1/2 >underground, stay cool in summer, warm in winter (with an insulated >roof) and only have the roof and front doors to keep clean (less >maintenance). Whatcha think John? yikes! and give up my office? ;) I'm still trying to work out with the "archetictural review board" the idea of attaching the house and existing garage and extending it out the front... or doing the shed on a slab idea... or just buying a newer rig that doesn't need so much work and pouring a slab in my carport... Uh, Houston, we have a problem going into the hill... it seems there's a 30 foot setback requirement from the drainfield... which means the existing garage is in violation of current setbacks on two counts... I imagine getting a citation from the building inspector any day now... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:09:37 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: another new look... I made some more changes to my server... let me know what you think. I'm sure I'll come up with more to do... http://www.wagoneers.com/ john - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/UNIX from Snohomish, Washington reminding you not to leave life without Jesus. ============================================================================= Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonald Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants. Michael Bacarella 3/15/2000 (as seen on http://www.slashdot.com ) ============================================================================ = ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:28:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: RE: swap meet, monroe - FSJ fest A: Bad news John! When I finished installing the cruise control, I compared the motor brackets (for the throttle) and it's different from the Jeep one. Looks like I'll be in Blackie tomorrow for sure. The door locks on the XJ don't function! Anyone need a brushguard for $50? How about a tilt column for $20? I need an XJ one for parts. John wrote: I'll leave my cell phone on, it's a local call from the fairgrounds, john At 03:52 PM 5/19/00 -0700, Weidenheimer Allan P KPWA wrote: How many have those little FRS radios? I don't know if I can make 7:30 or not, that means catching the ferry at 6:30 or earlier! If not I'll just head out there and watch for John. I'll wear my "JEEP" hat from a prior FSJ-Fest, will probably have my son riding in his custom wagon with the oak sideboards. I won't be in an FSJ though, will be in my IH pickup. Wife coming over later in FSJ, but not to swap meet. Allan Weidenheimer - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 3:27 PM To: Weidenheimer Allan P KPWA Cc: 'allanw-at-pacific.telebyte.com'; Brazzadog-at-aol.com; Carnuck-at-webtv.net Subject: Re: swap meet, monroe - FSJ fest Calling all FSJ types in the pacific northwest... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0monroe swap meet tomorrow morning. Allan, Ben, Jim and John will be there. Guess we'll try to meet up at John's house around 7:30 or so??? Ok, or earlier? =A0 14809 State Route 9 SE, I think almost everyone with an FSJ within three states and two countries has been here. :) The meet starts at 8am, it's not like it's a midnight madness sale or anything... of course, as usual, first in gets to pick over the stuff... Of course, our main competition will be assembling together, that way we can keep an eye on each other. ;) I'm hoping Jim will find the linkage so I can swap manifolds, otherwise I'll be looking for 258 goodies. ITEMS I'm looking for: =A0 J10 Emblems. 258 Valve cover, non-plastic, =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 the charcoal cannister setup, Sunroof, rear bumper for a =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0J10 stepside. Maybe a 4v that'll fit on my Clifford manifold even... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0and a shop manual for my 1983 J10. My number is in the phone book, no address, except snohomish. it's a 360, 668 prefix. ttyl, john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #861 *************************