From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun May 21 16:49:19 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, May 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 865 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: dash pad removal fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Saturday Snohomish Special... Re: fsj: Adjusting Choke? Re: fsj: Digital Cameras... Re: fsj: RE: Third week into FSJ ownership (long). Re: fsj: stroker math fsj: Won't Start story, any help? Re: fsj: Won't Start story, any help? fsj: Wiring specs? Re: fsj: Wiring specs? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:46:54 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: dash pad removal Removing the dash pad without removing the windshield is possible... but it would be easier to remove the dash from the rig first, and that is best done with the windshield out. I've got some pix of the dash, and the windshield removal on my server: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 00:33:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Saturday Snohomish Special... A: I just hate Holleys is all! I caught heck allright. Good thing we have no dog in the doghouse :^( John M wrote: Long day in Snohomish... my FSJ buddies, Ben, Allan and Jim got me up early for the Monroe swap meet. Showed 'em the Camp Jeep Dealer Business Meeting 1998 / 99 WJ Launch video first. Once at the swap meet we kind of scattered. Ben and I wandered systematically through and hit everything. Not much for either of our Jeeps. Knowing that Superdawg's mileage has been steadily decreasing, I started looking for carbs. When I found some Motorcrafts I managed to find Jim Blair and then had him help me pick out some used Motorcraft carbs... I found one fair one for $7. Then we looked at it and figured out some parts were missing. Went back and bought another one for $2 that had some of the parts. Meanwhile Jim found a welder and was hauling it out to his truck and I went back looking for another carb. Found one for $6. So, back to Snohomish, stopped at Olympic with Jim. Jim was looking for XJ stuff and I was trying to find the elusive throttle bracket for my 258. We both struck out. Got back home and Jim and I started working on the carbs. =A0 Jim built one good one out of 4 of mixed condition. =A0 We got it on the manifold, fired right up and shrieked like a whistle... major vacuum leak. We didn't have the right gaskets for the base... argh. So, next thing I know Jim is pulling the manifold... Guess he figured we'd be able to jury rig a throttle setup with the stock manifold and BBD carb I had bought off of eaby... So, off goes the Clifford, and looky there... there's a chunk missing from one of the flanges... :) major leak. That and the bad power valve on the Holley resulted in my 11 to 13 mpg on an engine that should get over 20. Hmmm... =A0 there is hope yet for Superdawg. So, it's around 5 or 6pm when we started... ;) It's now 11pm and Jim just left. I hope I didn't get him in too much trouble... :} Did the test drive and Superdawg went up the hill, and without an EGR valve in place, a long story... he pinged if I mashed it to the floor, but not at 3/4 throttle... =A0 (I need the stock 258 throttle bracket, a new throttle cable and the EGR pipe so I can get this setup properly. Working though, thankfully!) So, tomorrow, I'll top of the tank and pray for at least the EPA ratings... ;) It runs smooth and quiet. Now I need to get an Amsoil Air filter for the stock setup. MANY THANKS to Jim Blair!!! This guy is a carb wizard. I'm not easily amazed, but this guy is amazing with carbs. He's the best I've ever seen. I've known lots of mechanics, good ones, but none that I've seen take junk and make a working carb like Jim can. Not to mention the wide range of carbs he is familiar with. I know a few good mechanics that are good on one or two types of carbs, but get 'em off those brands and they're just ok. I now have a box of Motorcraft 2100's for sale, 1 that works, and three parts units. =A0 I have a clifford manifold that needs to have a piece JB welded back in place, or TIG welded. I have a pair of 360 valve covers, a Holley 2v with a bad power valve and a cast iron 258 Manifold... all going away, cheap... If I don't hear from friends on the list, I'll put the stuff on ebay starting out at $5 or something like that. :) john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 00:36:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Adjusting Choke? A: John M has a Motorcraft 2bbl I took apart and reassembled (2150 I think) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 10:45:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Digital Cameras... A: I use a Canon video camera, which would have much nicer pics than I have posted (They look great on Webtv, but not on computer) if Webtv did better than 72DPI. =A0=A0 Message Sender: owner-fsj-at-digest.net From: tlynn-at-sheltonbbs.com (TLynn) Date: Sat, May 20, 2000, 11:19am (PDT+2) To: jcjones-at-goldencomputerservice.com (JC Jones), john-at-wagoneers.com (john), fsj-at-digest.net (FSJ Digest) Subject: Re: fsj: Digital Cameras... I use a Sony Mavica due to its simplicity. My wife needed to use it as often as I do so a few years ago when I went to shop around it was the best for the money and simplicity, no flash cards or proprietary software needed. It uses a floppy disk to save the pics on and you can choose 3 different quality types and they are stored as jpgs. I paid around $500 for it but that was a few years ago. I will buy another someday soon but I sure would like to keep the floppy storage but I don't think any of the mega pixels cameras use it anymore due to the size of the pics. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JC Jones" To: "john" ; "FSJ Digest" Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 10:55 Subject: RE: fsj: Digital Cameras... I use a Kodac DC210+ and love it. It's high res mode has a resolution that I can't remember right now, but it's substantially larger than my 1024x768 desktop and very clear. It does suffer from the delay problem that John was talking about as well, but the delay is only about .5 seconds. I use a notebook primarily and the DC210+ uses the CF memory cards (up to 96MB) and I got a PCMCIA to CF adapter card to read the memory card as a hard drive (works great and automatically in Windoze and Mandrake-Linux alike). I think the Kodac DC series cameras are around $500 too. JC Jones :) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 12:01 AM To: Recipient list suppressed Subject: Re: fsj: Digital Cameras... At 01:37 AM 5/20/00 EDT, you wrote: I really like the quality of your digital pics John. As I'm looking for a D Camera myself, which did you choose and how how much did you have to spend - just curious. Rob I've got two. Both Olympus. Remember last fall I traded my 77 Wagoneer for a camera and an expensive bike? Well, if I hadn't done that I'd never have even considered the Olympus. =A0 I got the DL320 in the trade. It's a fixed lens, does pretty good. 1024x960 in high res. But they tend to eat batteries... so I bought rechargeables and it's working fine. :) Then I decided I really wanted the DL450, with the 3x zoom... got my tax return and then went looking at Costco to find one... no luck, well, luckier really... they had the DL460, it came with some rechargeable batteries and a couple other features the DL450 doesn't have. Costco sells 'em at $499.00, I've also seen 'em in the elinux.com catalog for the same price. I don't like the DL460 as much as the DL320 for taking pictures under the rig though... that lens sticking out and trying to adjust the telephoto isn't easy... So I crawl underneath with the DL320. :) BTW, the 460 has several resolutions and all kinds of other bells and whistles. It does 640x480 for SQ and 1280x960 HQ, but it also does something more than the 320 (which also has the same res modes) and that is it'll do SHQ and SHQ-TIFF. In other word it'll create monster files. :) The optical qualities of the Olympus is what drew me toward them. I have had trouble with the 320, have an engineer at work that does a lot of model design for our handheld scanners and has fixed some mechanical problems. :) Of course I keep his UNIX design workstation purring along nicely... ;) The other benefit of the Olympus is they are compatible with LINUX!!! :) I'm using the Flash Path Disk with Windoze. I guess when I swing over completely to Linux I'll have to use the serial cables unless I find a driver for the Flash Path... could happen. :) Anyway, bottom line, the Olympus Digitals have been working very well for me for automotive photography. I've gathered pictures for a few articles recently with them... =A0 One of my recent favorite ones is those lights on my main web page... :) Not sure why I like it... I'm sure I'll tire of it soon enough... Shoot, I only changed my main page three times in the last 24hrs... rofl... :) One other thing on the Digitals, they are a little slow... the 320 is worse than the 460 though... I mean you point, aim, hit the shutter and it takes a few seconds time to shoot!!! Yikes, I've missed a bunch of shots with it... I'm used to a 35mm... on the other hand, I've probably saved enough in film to make a good down payment on the DC. :) Tomorrow, Swap Meet in Monroe, WA... gotta run, john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 10:50:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Third week into FSJ ownership (long). A: For an overdrive to replace the TH400, look into a 4L60 (not "E"!) and adapter plate. You will have to modify mounts (I think the 6 cyl frame holes for the trans will work, but not sure, and then you could use the 6 cyl driveshafts) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 13:26:00 -0500 From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: stroker math john said: {- 4.2L Stroke = 3.90 (bore for 4.2 = 3.75 1983) {- 4.2L, 1983 bxs = 3.75 x 3.90 9.2:1 compr 115hp -at- 3200 tq 210/1800 {- 258 cu in - (4.22L) {- 5.9L, 1983 bxs = 4.08 x 3.44 8.25:1 compr 129hp -at- 3700 tq 245/1600 {- 360 cu in - (5.89L) {- 4.0L bore = 3.88 (stroke for 4.0l 1988 = 3.14) {- 4.0L, 1988 bxs = 3.88 x 3.14 9.2:1 compr 177hp -at- 4500 tq 224/2500 {- 241.6 cu in - (3.96L) The first two work out: 3.75bore and 3.90stroke and 6cyl == 258.4ci == 4.24L 4.08bore and 3.44stroke and 8cyl == 359.8ci == 5.9L ...but the other doesn't: 3.88bore and 3.14stroke and 6cyl == 222.8ci == 3.65L (not even close) Don't know what the right numbers are supposed to be, but unless I'm missing something, might want to check those. (Sure you didn't confuse stroke with pi? ;) ) My JavaScript page for checking: http://dan.black.org/misc/displacement.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heisenberg was driving down the Autobahn whereupon he was pulled over by a policeman. The policeman asked, "Do you know how fast you were going back there? Heisenberg replied, "No, but I know where I am." - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org ----------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:36:25 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Won't Start story, any help? Well I'm sure by now everyone is sick to death of the leaky pan gasket on my tranny... Now it seems to be seeping only slightly, at each front corner, but I snugged it up some more this morning... we'll see.... But now she won't start. I had posted a general comment about the starter wanting to keep cranking after the key was let off... Well that little trend has exacerbated the problem here. When I tried to start it this morning, it wouldn't. Even after the ignition switch and key switch were replaced, the starter continues to grind until thankfully after seemingly far too long, it quits of it's own accord. Well this is wonderful if you're having startup problems anyway. I cranked it 2 times and the battery was dead. Powered up the battery again, swiped the solenoid outta the MJ and put it in the Waggie... no help. Just cranked until the battery was dead again. Good thing I've got a starter/charger... so I pulled the oil-soaked starter off the Waggie and swapped in the one off of the MJ which is now my parts truck I guess ... Cool... the run-on starter problem is solved. But it still won't start. It is still exhibiting the symptom of ... turn the key to start, and just as you back the key off from start to run, the damn thing seems to try to start, but you can't hold the key there in any particular position and make it consistently fire. If you just wiggle the key between the edges of start/run, it tries to fire, then quits then tries, etc. Weirdest durn thing I've seen in a real long time. Not that I'm the old-man-in-the-sea or anything, but I've been farting around with cars for some time now... So I start checking around with the meter and following some test procedures to find that there is a thing called a Resistance Wire in the circuit between the +Coil post and one of the ECU unit plugs. It's supposed to run at 1.35ohms and mine is showing 0. Nada. Short. This apparently then allows too much volts to the coil... As I was testing this circuitry, the key was ON and the resistance wire was QUITE warm. I could hold it, but not tight, and not for long. That seemed kinda odd, if the resistance is 0ohms... ?? And it seemed to me that the Coil got real warm, real fast too. Then I haven't really grabbed a coil after starting the car, etc. so maybe they get warm normally under load. And with me grinding and grinding on it, maybe it warmed up. Anyone offer an opinion about whether a hot coil means a bad coil? Now according to the manual this Resistance Wire is a show stopper. So can anyone give me a barnyard fix here? No chance of getting a Resistance Wire from anywhere near Memphis today that's for sure. And I am not so sure I could find it tomorrow. I'm supposed to drive up Thursday, to meet the wife and kids on vacation already in Indy. They left yesterday... and my truck pulled this, this morning... gotta love it... My vacation days were supposed to start Wednesday, but now it looks like I'll be driving the lawn mower to town tomorrow for parts!! Anybody know how long it takes to drive a John Deere 15hp mower 40miles to the dealership? Entertaining and especially useful suggestions re resistance wire welcome! Gotta go pull the manual for the MJ and see if there's a resistance wire in there... JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:48:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Won't Start story, any help? A: Just for your edification, grab a volt meter and see how many volts are getting to the coil (should be -at-8-9 V with the key on) There are 2 little wires on the solenoid. One gets the same power as the coil with the key on, the other gets power when you turn the key to start. The start wire goes to the terminal marked "S" on the solenoid (which if correctly mounted is closest to the front) and the one with ingnition power goes to the other marked "I". With the "I" terminal wire off, check for power while cranking. It should jump up to what your battery shows while cranking (12-10V if your battery is good and charged up). This wire puts power directly to your coil while cranking, to boost spark for starting. BTW, with the ignition on and motor not running, the power goes through the coil to ground through the ignition box, which is why the coil gets hot. jeepnut wrote: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Well I'm sure by now everyone is sick to death of the leaky pan gasket on my tranny... Now it seems to be seeping only slightly, at each front corner, but I snugged it up some more this morning... we'll see.... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0But now she won't start. I had posted a general comment about the starter wanting to keep cranking after the key was let off... Well that little trend has exacerbated the problem here. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0When I tried to start it this morning, it wouldn't. Even after the ignition switch and key switch were replaced, the starter continues to grind until thankfully after seemingly far too long, it quits of it's own accord. Well this is wonderful if you're having startup problems anyway. I cranked it 2 times and the battery was dead. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Powered up the battery again, swiped the solenoid outta the MJ and put it in the Waggie... no help. Just cranked until the battery was dead again. Good thing I've got a starter/charger... so I pulled the oil-soaked starter off the Waggie and swapped in the one off of the MJ which is now my parts truck I guess ... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Cool... the run-on starter problem is solved. But it still won't start. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0It is still exhibiting the symptom of ... turn the key to start, and just as you back the key off from start to run, the damn thing seems to try to start, but you can't hold the key there in any particular position and make it consistently fire. If you just wiggle the key between the edges of start/run, it tries to fire, then quits then tries, etc. Weirdest durn thing I've seen in a real long time. Not that I'm the old-man-in-the-sea or anything, but I've been farting around with cars for some time now... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0So I start checking around with the meter and following some test procedures to find that there is a thing called a Resistance Wire in the circuit between the +Coil post and one of the ECU unit plugs. It's supposed to run at 1.35ohms and mine is showing 0. Nada. Short. This apparently then allows too much volts to the coil... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0As I was testing this circuitry, the key was ON and the resistance wire was QUITE warm. I could hold it, but not tight, and not for long. That seemed kinda odd, if the resistance is 0ohms... ?? =A0 And it seemed to me that the Coil got real warm, real fast too. Then I haven't really grabbed a coil after starting the car, etc. so maybe they get warm normally under load. And with me grinding and grinding on it, maybe it warmed up. Anyone offer an opinion about whether a hot coil means a bad coil? =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Now according to the manual this Resistance Wire is a show stopper. So can anyone give me a barnyard fix here? =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0No chance of getting a Resistance Wire from anywhere near Memphis today that's for sure. And I am not so sure I could find it tomorrow. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I'm supposed to drive up Thursday, to meet the wife and kids on vacation already in Indy. They left yesterday... and my truck pulled this, this morning... gotta love it... My vacation days were supposed to start Wednesday, but now it looks like I'll be driving the lawn mower to town tomorrow for parts!! Anybody know how long it takes to drive a John Deere 15hp mower 40miles to the dealership? =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Entertaining and especially useful suggestions re resistance wire welcome! =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Gotta go pull the manual for the MJ and see if there's a resistance wire in there... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0JeepNut - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:42:31 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Wiring specs? Hi again. Just found a wire loose from the alternator. In the book there is only the barest basic wiring diagram. Anyone know if there's a wiring layout page somewhere? I poked around John's site, but didn't see anything like that... I've got the main heavy red wire up to the solenoid lug via a fusible link. Then there's a plastic plug which plugs into the alternator. It has only one wire right now, but there is a loose end hanging around down there too. The intact wire runs back up to the solenoid lug via a fusible link. Same as the main single heavy wire. The loose wire runs back up to join with this Resistance Wire. But I'm not totally sure that this loose wire is supposed to be connected to that alternator plug. I need some schematics... Thanks to all!! JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:47:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Wiring specs? A: If the wire is blue, it's supposed to go on the plug next to the red one on the side of the alternator! W/O it, your alt won't charge! JeepNut wrote: Hi again. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Just found a wire loose from the alternator. In the book there is only the barest basic wiring diagram. Anyone know if there's a wiring layout page somewhere? I poked around John's site, but didn't see anything like that... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I've got the main heavy red wire up to the solenoid lug via a fusible link. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Then there's a plastic plug which plugs into the alternator. It has only one wire right now, but there is a loose end hanging around down there too. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0The intact wire runs back up to the solenoid lug via a fusible link. Same as the main single heavy wire. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0The loose wire runs back up to join with this Resistance Wire. But I'm not totally sure that this loose wire is supposed to be connected to that alternator plug. I need some schematics... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Thanks to all!! =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0JeepNut - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #865 *************************