From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun May 21 21:51:23 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, May 22 2000 Volume 01 : Number 866 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Rez tales fsj: Jeep Will Start If U Do THis fsj: AJ's fight (non FSJ) fsj: RE: AJ's fight (non FSJ) fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Saturday Snohomish Special... Re: fsj: AJ's fight (non FSJ) fsj: Re: Won't Start story, any help? Re: fsj: Jeep Will Start If U Do THis Re: fsj: stroker math fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Adjusting Choke? fsj: Won't Start story, any help? fsj: Wiring specs? fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Adjusting Choke? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 18:51:58 EDT From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Rez tales Well, went to run errands with the RezRunner yesterday and noticed I had lost at least one cylinder in the lineup. Still drove there and back without too much trouble. Parked at the bank and popped the hood.....to my dismay, a plug wire had somehow gotten onto the manifold and had burnt through to start arcing on the manifold. I re-routed it and that cylinder started hitting again! Regardless, I put all new plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor on Rez today. Now you understand I was replacing the equipment that Rez had on it when I dug it out of the weeds on the reservation over 2 years ago..........pretty tough old jeep. Well, she runs really good now. Also noticed that Rez wouldn't come out of third gear when I tromped it going down the tollway. So I adjusted the kick down linkage at the carb and combined with the tuneup, she runs like a turpentined dog now! Oh, by the way, one of my friends was pretty impressed the other day when we went to lunch......I tromped on the Rez to get around another car in traffic. Well, first gear in the Rez is pretty low and maybe I have hit it just right but there was a perceptable bark from the tires as they broke traction for a split second and the Quadratrac kicked in to compensate......He said it was the fronts that broke loose. I'm thinking that it had to be the rears. Doesn't more power go to the rear in regular 4HI? He says the Wagoneer is pretty cool and I think he's about ready to sell his suburban for an FSJ. --Vince '81 Wagoneer 360, TF727, np219, d44 front, amc20 rear. No lift, stock tires, stock motor, in need of a new rear window motor. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:07:59 -0400 From: "B. COLUCCI" Subject: fsj: Jeep Will Start If U Do THis Greetings Jeepnut & the Rest Of The FSJ World! You did well by having that spare starter from the MJ. Been there and done that; it's hard to believe but when these FSJ starters malfunction they set up their own internal power field that acts like a generator to keep them running even without voltage being supplied. Would not believe it if I had not seen it on the USS GW only after replacing the logical items like you have also done. Now I too have seen the problem with the key in the start position and the engine will not fire. then when you release the key it acts like it wants to fire. Simple fix; replace the Ford Durraspark Module. The cranking circuit in yours has failed; yet the run circuit is fine. Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post End Transmission........................................ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 18:29:23 -0700 From: Albert Metzel Subject: fsj: AJ's fight (non FSJ) Hello again to everyone, lately I haven't been monitoring my mail for reasons I know all fathers will understand. Unfortunately now I feel I must post a short message on my son's behalf. It was a month ago yesterday I flew up to Oakland CA to bring home my son AJ after a unexpected stay at Children's Hospital. I requested some prayers and well wishes for my son and in true FSJ form you all GREATLY responded, I'm sorry I never replied to each message personally, but allow me to say a BIG thanks to everyone! I am proud to be part of such a fantastic FSJ family!! I look forward to someday meeting everyone I can. Unfortunately, I am writing this today in haste as I am headed back to AJ's bedside... His most recent surgery was on Fri. from which he is currently fighting to wake up from. He has a room in the PICU at Children's Hospital, located at 3020 Children's Way, San Diego CA 92123 (858) 570-1700 (rm. # changing) AJ is a fighter and has bounced back from many of these shunt operations, He is in tee ball and first grade, and looks forward to everything with spirit, I am confident this one will be no different! He spit out the ventilator tubing this early this morning (figuratively speaking) and his eyes are following action around the room! Tomorrow is a brand new day! God Bless you all, Al Metzel '64 wag & '47 delivery ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:48:30 -0500 From: "Bob Bradfield,MCSE" Subject: fsj: RE: AJ's fight (non FSJ) Wow. Tell him he's my hero. I owe him a ride in the swamps of Houston, if ya'll are ever this way. Best wishes. Bob Bradfield 83 Wag Ltd - "Omen" - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Albert Metzel Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 8:29 PM To: John's list Subject: fsj: AJ's fight (non FSJ) Hello again to everyone, lately I haven't been monitoring my mail for reasons I know all fathers will understand. Unfortunately now I feel I must post a short message on my son's behalf. It was a month ago yesterday I flew up to Oakland CA to bring home my son AJ after a unexpected stay at Children's Hospital. I requested some prayers and well wishes for my son and in true FSJ form you all GREATLY responded, I'm sorry I never replied to each message personally, but allow me to say a BIG thanks to everyone! I am proud to be part of such a fantastic FSJ family!! I look forward to someday meeting everyone I can. Unfortunately, I am writing this today in haste as I am headed back to AJ's bedside... His most recent surgery was on Fri. from which he is currently fighting to wake up from. He has a room in the PICU at Children's Hospital, located at 3020 Children's Way, San Diego CA 92123 (858) 570-1700 (rm. # changing) AJ is a fighter and has bounced back from many of these shunt operations, He is in tee ball and first grade, and looks forward to everything with spirit, I am confident this one will be no different! He spit out the ventilator tubing this early this morning (figuratively speaking) and his eyes are following action around the room! Tomorrow is a brand new day! God Bless you all, Al Metzel '64 wag & '47 delivery ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 22:03:58 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Saturday Snohomish Special... Cool! Getting carbs that cheap is really something! So if Jim is that good with Carbs, maybe we should ship our carbs over for him to re build? Hehehe... R.J. john wrote: > Long day in Snohomish... my FSJ buddies, Ben, Allan and Jim > got me up early for the Monroe swap meet. Showed 'em the > Camp Jeep Dealer Business Meeting 1998 / 99 WJ Launch video first. > > Once at the swap meet we kind of scattered. Ben and I wandered > systematically through and hit everything. Not much for either > of our Jeeps. Knowing that Superdawg's mileage has been steadily > decreasing, I started looking for carbs. When I found some > Motorcrafts I managed to find Jim Blair and then had him help me > pick out some used Motorcraft carbs... I > found one fair one for $7. Then we looked at it and figured out > some parts were missing. Went back and bought another one for $2 > that had some of the parts. Meanwhile Jim found a welder and was > hauling it out to his truck and I went back looking for another carb. > Found one for $6. > > So, back to Snohomish, stopped at Olympic with Jim. Jim was looking > for XJ stuff and I was trying to find the elusive throttle bracket > for my 258. We both struck out. > > Got back home and Jim and I started working on the carbs. Jim > built one good one out of 4 of mixed condition. We got it on > the manifold, fired right up and shrieked like a whistle... major > vacuum leak. We didn't have the right gaskets for the base... argh. > > So, next thing I know Jim is pulling the manifold... Guess he figured > we'd be able to jury rig a throttle setup with the stock manifold > and BBD carb I had bought off of eaby... So, off goes the > Clifford, and looky there... there's a chunk missing from one of > the flanges... :) major leak. That and the bad power valve on > the Holley resulted in my 11 to 13 mpg on an engine that should > get over 20. Hmmm... there is hope yet for Superdawg. > > So, it's around 5 or 6pm when we started... ;) > It's now 11pm and Jim just left. I hope I didn't get him in too > much trouble... :} > > Did the test drive and Superdawg went up the hill, and > without an EGR valve in place, a long story... he pinged if I mashed it to > the floor, but not at 3/4 throttle... (I need the stock > 258 throttle bracket, a new throttle cable and the EGR pipe so > I can get this setup properly. Working though, thankfully!) > > So, tomorrow, I'll top of the tank and pray for at least the EPA > ratings... ;) It runs smooth and quiet. Now I need to get an > Amsoil Air filter for the stock setup. > > MANY THANKS to Jim Blair!!! This guy is a carb wizard. I'm > not easily amazed, but this guy is amazing with carbs. He's the > best I've ever seen. I've known lots of mechanics, good ones, but > none that I've seen take junk and make a working carb like Jim > can. Not to mention the wide range of carbs he is familiar with. > I know a few good mechanics that are good on one or two types of > carbs, but get 'em off those brands and they're just ok. > > I now have a box of Motorcraft 2100's for sale, 1 that works, > and three parts units. I have a clifford manifold that needs > to have a piece JB welded back in place, or TIG welded. I have > a pair of 360 valve covers, a Holley 2v with a bad power valve > and a cast iron 258 Manifold... all going away, cheap... If > I don't hear from friends on the list, I'll put the stuff on > ebay starting out at $5 or something like that. :) > > john > ------------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg > SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ------- > ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... > ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Save 75% on Products! > Find incredible deals on overstocked items with Free shipping! > http://click.egroups.com/1/4013/7/_/696737/_/958890406/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To Subscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-subscribe-at-egroups.com > To Unsubscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-unsubscribe-at-egroups.com Visit Our homepage: http://www.egroups.com/group/1FSJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:08:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: AJ's fight (non FSJ) Take good care of the tyke. My family's prayers go with you! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:21:14 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: Won't Start story, any help? Other thing to check is the coil. Mine wouldn't shut off when you turned it off, only if you disconnected the battery, and then the coil died completely. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "JeepNut" To: "FSJ List" Sent: Monday, 22 May, 2000 14:36 Subject: fsj: Won't Start story, any help? > Well I'm sure by now everyone is sick to death of the leaky pan > gasket on my tranny... > Now it seems to be seeping only slightly, at each front corner, but I > snugged it up some more this morning... we'll see.... > But now she won't start. I had posted a general comment about the > starter wanting to keep cranking after the key was let off... Well that > little trend has exacerbated the problem here. > When I tried to start it this morning, it wouldn't. Even after the > ignition switch and key switch were replaced, the starter continues to > grind until thankfully after seemingly far too long, it quits of it's > own accord. Well this is wonderful if you're having startup problems > anyway. I cranked it 2 times and the battery was dead. > Powered up the battery again, swiped the solenoid outta the MJ and > put it in the Waggie... no help. Just cranked until the battery was > dead again. Good thing I've got a starter/charger... so I pulled the > oil-soaked starter off the Waggie and swapped in the one off of the MJ > which is now my parts truck I guess ... > Cool... the run-on starter problem is solved. But it still won't > start. > It is still exhibiting the symptom of ... turn the key to start, and > just as you back the key off from start to run, the damn thing seems to > try to start, but you can't hold the key there in any particular > position and make it consistently fire. If you just wiggle the key > between the edges of start/run, it tries to fire, then quits then tries, > etc. Weirdest durn thing I've seen in a real long time. Not that I'm > the old-man-in-the-sea or anything, but I've been farting around with > cars for some time now... > So I start checking around with the meter and following some test > procedures to find that there is a thing called a Resistance Wire in the > circuit between the +Coil post and one of the ECU unit plugs. It's > supposed to run at 1.35ohms and mine is showing 0. Nada. Short. This > apparently then allows too much volts to the coil... > As I was testing this circuitry, the key was ON and the resistance > wire was QUITE warm. I could hold it, but not tight, and not for long. > That seemed kinda odd, if the resistance is 0ohms... ?? And it seemed > to me that the Coil got real warm, real fast too. Then I haven't really > grabbed a coil after starting the car, etc. so maybe they get warm > normally under load. And with me grinding and grinding on it, maybe it > warmed up. Anyone offer an opinion about whether a hot coil means a bad > coil? > Now according to the manual this Resistance Wire is a show stopper. > So can anyone give me a barnyard fix here? > No chance of getting a Resistance Wire from anywhere near Memphis > today that's for sure. And I am not so sure I could find it tomorrow. > I'm supposed to drive up Thursday, to meet the wife and kids on > vacation already in Indy. They left yesterday... and my truck pulled > this, this morning... gotta love it... My vacation days were supposed > to start Wednesday, but now it looks like I'll be driving the lawn mower > to town tomorrow for parts!! Anybody know how long it takes to drive a > John Deere 15hp mower 40miles to the dealership? > Entertaining and especially useful suggestions re resistance wire > welcome! > Gotta go pull the manual for the MJ and see if there's a resistance > wire in there... > JeepNut > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > '92 Cherokee > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:27:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Jeep Will Start If U Do THis A: Almost, but not quite! What happens is the nose bushing on the Ford type starters wears out, and the armature touches the side, creating a rotating dead short of extreme amperage draw, which welds the solenoid contacts together! If the 12V pickup wire I mentioned earlier didn't work, and there is power to the coil (I assume you checked to see that the wires aren't shorted on the case of the coil) then a new ignition box is in order! (I will have at least 3 spares to sell soon, including high altitude 6 cyl ones. I'm going HEI! That way a spare module or 2 can be kept in my glovebox! 8^P) B.=A0COLUCCI wrote: Greetings Jeepnut & the Rest Of The FSJ World! You did well by having that spare starter from the MJ. Been there and done that; it's hard to believe but when these FSJ starters malfunction they set up their own internal power field that acts like a generator to keep them running even without voltage being supplied. Would not believe it if I had not seen it on the USS GW only after replacing the logical items like you have also done. Now I too have seen the problem with the key in the start position and the engine will not fire. then when you release the key it acts like it wants to fire. Simple fix; replace the Ford Durraspark Module. The cranking circuit in yours has failed; yet the run circuit is fine. Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post End Transmission........................................ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:52:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: stroker math A: I tried that webpage, but it shut my webtv off 3 times! I figured out though that my stroker motor will be 278.3 cubic inches! Dan=A0Black wrote: john said: {- 4.2L Stroke =3D 3.90 =A0 (bore for 4.2 =3D 3.75 1983) {- 4.2L, 1983 bxs= =3D 3.75 x 3.90 9.2:1 compr 115hp -at- 3200 tq 210/1800 {- =A0 258 cu in - (4.22L) {- 5.9L, 1983 bxs =3D 4.08 x 3.44 8.25:1 compr 129hp -at- 3700 tq 245/1600 {-= =A0 360 cu in - (5.89L) {- 4.0L bore =3D 3.88 (stroke for 4.0l 1988 =3D 3.14) {- 4.0L, 1988 bxs =3D= 3.88 x 3.14 9.2:1 compr 177hp -at- 4500 tq 224/2500 {- =A0 241.6 cu in - (3.96L) The first two work out: =A0=A0=A0=A03.75bore and 3.90stroke and 6cyl =3D=3D 258.4ci =3D=3D 4.24L =A0=A04.08bore and 3.44stroke and 8cyl =3D=3D 359.8ci =3D=3D 5.9L ...but the other doesn't: =A0=A0=A0=A03.88bore and 3.14stroke and 6cyl =3D=3D 222.8ci =3D=3D 3.65L (= not even close) Don't know what the right numbers are supposed to be, but unless I'm missing something, might want to check those. (Sure you didn't confuse stroke with pi? ;) ) My JavaScript page for checking: =A0=A0=A0=A0http://dan.black.org/misc/displacement.html - ---------------------------------------------- =A0=A0=A0=A0Heisenberg was driving down the Autobahn whereupon he was pulled over by a policeman. The policeman asked, "Do you know how fast you were going back there? Heisenberg replied, "No, but I know where I am." - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - ----------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:19:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Adjusting Choke? A: The plugs were swapped before weren't they? And given your luck, no I wouldn't mess with it! LOL! When I heard the Honcho at John's it sounded pretty sweet to me! (Even though I am a 6 aholic!) RJ wrote: Well that's the funny thing, they were squashed,=A0 But since jack , my new mechanic worked on it , claimed=A0 it was not when he got it,=A0 and fixed it.. I have not pulled the plug yet to look,=A0 probably because I don't want to jinx it, and it is running way better any way.. He laughed , at the idea That other guy said it was a stretched rod, He said the guy was trying to rip me off. which had me worried for a little bit, as you remember. Jim what did you think of it? ( My truck) =A0I guess this is how we learn, eh? R.J. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 04:23:38 GMT From: Robert Barry Subject: fsj: Won't Start story, any help? > When I tried to start it this morning, it wouldn't. Even after the [snip] > Cool... the run-on starter problem is solved. But it still won't >start. > It is still exhibiting the symptom of ... turn the key to start, and >just as you back the key off from start to run, the damn thing seems to >try to start, but you can't hold the key there in any particular It sounds like your wire that feeds the full 12V(+) to the coil when you have the ignition in the "Start" position is broken somewhere. When the key goes back to the "Run" position, the coil is getting the 9V(+) through the resistance wire, which is enough to make the still-spinning engine occassionally cough, but not start. [snip] > Now according to the manual this Resistance Wire is a show stopper. >So can anyone give me a barnyard fix here? > No chance of getting a Resistance Wire from anywhere near Memphis >today that's for sure. And I am not so sure I could find it tomorrow. If there is a break in the resistance-wire, you can just solder it back together. I doubt the whole wire is bad; probably just a connector at one or the other ends that is flaky. Some solder, or in a pinch, some crimps, will get you going again. Good Luck! ________________________________________________ Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 04:23:42 GMT From: Robert Barry Subject: fsj: Wiring specs? > Just found a wire loose from the alternator. In the book there is >only the barest basic wiring diagram. Anyone know if there's a wiring >layout page somewhere? I poked around John's site, but didn't see >anything like that... > I've got the main heavy red wire up to the solenoid lug via a >fusible link. > Then there's a plastic plug which plugs into the alternator. It has >only one wire right now, but there is a loose end hanging around down >there too. > The intact wire runs back up to the solenoid lug via a fusible >link. Same as the main single heavy wire. > The loose wire runs back up to join with this Resistance Wire. But >I'm not totally sure that this loose wire is supposed to be connected to >that alternator plug. I need some schematics... That loose wire (is it white?) should probably go to that connector. You can buy a replacement connector, and splice it onto the existing wires, or even cleaner, if the wires are in good shape and will reach, release the broken terminal from the plastic connector, crimp on a replacement terminal (I think you'll want a GM type 56 female terminal; larger parts-places sell packs of these for a few bucks) and slide it into the original housing. This is a standard repair for FSJ's; I've had to do it on both of mine. ________________________________________________ Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:47:47 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Adjusting Choke? don't touch anything under the hood now that you've found an honest mechani= c. :) drive it and enjoy it. :) john On Sun, 21 May 2000, James Blair wrote: >-->A: The plugs were swapped before weren't they? And given your luck, no = I >-->wouldn't mess with it! LOL! When I heard the Honcho at John's it sounde= d >-->pretty sweet to me! (Even though I am a 6 aholic!) >--> >-->RJ wrote:=20 >-->Well that's the funny thing, they were squashed,=A0 But since jack , my >-->new mechanic worked on it , claimed=A0 it was not when he got it,=A0 an= d >-->fixed it.. I have not pulled the plug yet to look,=A0 probably=20 >-->because I don't want to jinx it, and it is running way better any way.. >-->He laughed , at the idea That other guy said it was a stretched rod, He >-->said the guy was trying to rip me off. which had me worried for a littl= e >-->bit, as you remember. Jim what did you think of it? ( My truck)=20 >-->=A0I guess this is how we learn, eh?=20 >-->R.J.=20 >--> >-->~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr >-->http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on >-->allexperts.com Pics:=20 >-->http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse=20 >-->~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com=20 don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #866 *************************