From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue May 23 17:26:46 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, May 23 2000 Volume 01 : Number 869 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Johns Garage fsj: WTB: Good-Running 360 or 401 in S.E. New England fsj: Carb fsj: Re: I found a 401! fsj: Edelbrock Performer Question Re: fsj: '77 F250 fsj: RE: Edelbrock Performer Question fsj: Steering Problems Re: fsj: Re: Jeep Will Start If U Do THis fsj: NP229 weight Re: fsj: NP229 weight fsj: Third week into FSJ ownership (long) fsj: Ultimate water pump feedback fsj: another crazy idea from snohomish FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:57:35 -0600 From: bradley.a.berry-at-lmco.com Subject: fsj: Johns Garage John, Have you considered a prefab unit? We have a chain in the SouthEast called "Teds Sheds" which builds sheds out of 2x4, plywood, shingles, vinyl siding, etc. They are actually pretty nice, and they sit on their own skids, with a plywood/truss floor. My brother in law has one in his back yard with his 67 Camaro in it, along with another ton or two of stuff. FSJs are pretty heavy, but they might make one for it's weight... I thought of this because I drove past one of their centers this weekend, and saw one that was a 2 car garage. Once you filled it up, you'd probably need 3 jeeps to move it, (or 5 Fords, or 8 Chevys) but this legally gets you around the variance as it isn't a permanent structure, and I'd bet you'd never have to move it... > Brad > ------------------------------------------------------- > > "It is an ethical responsibility of the informed to muddy the > tranquil waters of ignorance with the stick of knowledge." > > And, when they really beg for it, to whack them a good one with said > stick. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:33:09 -0400 From: Robert Barry Subject: fsj: WTB: Good-Running 360 or 401 in S.E. New England I tried to solve the ticking rocker in my '78 Cherokee's 360. I cleaned up some good used rockers to replace the two sets of rockers that were completely wiped out at the pivot contact point, reinstalled everything, and now one cylinder has gone dead. I believe the intake lifter for the #2 cylinder has disassembled itself, as there's about 1/4" of slack in that pushrod while there was none before, and that pushrod felt kind of funny when I took it out. I could open it up to check out replacing the single lifter, but I'm sure I'd find that everything else is worn and needs replacing. I think the 90k mile odometer reading represents at least 190,000 miles, based on the wear of everything I've seen in this engine. I could rebuild it, but I suspect it would have to be bored out, meaning new pistons, etc. etc... What I would like to do is drop in an already-good-running 360 or 401, either recently rebuilt or with less than 100,000 miles on it. Something that I can hear run, or see the receipts for. A second-best option would be a good core motor with <100,000 easy miles on it, so I could re-ring it, replace the bearings and valvetrain, and drop it in. I'd want to pull the oilpan, oil-pump cover and intake to inspect. I'm willing to pay a fair price for either sort of engine. The catch? I don't want to ship it, so that means it has to be within a few hours drive of me here in Rhode Island, which basically means Connecticut, eastern Massachusetts, maybe even southern New Hampshire, and, of course, Rhode Island. Maybe further, for the right motor. So, if you've recently wrecked your good-running FSJ, or you've got a spare motor just taking up space, or know someone who does, e-mail me directly; I'd like to get this started in two weeks, and be done in three. ________________________________________________ Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:08:53 -0500 From: "Bob Bradfield,MCSE" Subject: fsj: Carb Edelbrock 1406 on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=339446551 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:53:17 -0400 From: Robert Barry Subject: fsj: Re: I found a 401! At 11:03 AM 5/23/00 -0400, you wrote: >I found one too! Someone robbed the carb, but it was a runner before the >trans packed it in. Anyone interested for $500? I'd be interested, if I wasn't on the other side of the country! Anyone have a running 401 for $500 on the East coast? ________________________________________________ Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:52:08 PDT From: "John Bushnell" Subject: fsj: Edelbrock Performer Question I'm looking at getting an edelbrock 1406 to put on a performer intake for my 360 project (otherwise, one notch above stock). My question is: What other parts do I need to get to make the edelbrock work with the trottle cable and kick down linkage? Also, can I use the air cleaner that came with the 360/2150 comb, or do I need another, or an adaptor. Also, opinions cought on whether there is any better off-road carb that I should be looking at? Thanks in advance, John ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:09:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: '77 F250 A: Subliminal messages ahead! Jamie.L.Phillips wrote: I know this is a Jeep list, but I know a number of people out there also drive F-Series trucks, and if they are in the Chicago area they may be interested. My wife and I have finally come to the understanding that I only need one project vehicle (my '73 J-4000) and I need to sell my '77 F250 (2 wheel drive), 300 straight six (manual with 1st being an unsynchronized "granny gear"). I'm thinking $100 for the truck without the flat bed, another $300 for the flat bed. I just built the flate bed about a month or two ago and spent about $300 in materials alone. If you are interested in pictures, let me know. The truck runs (I still drive it to work (10 miles one way) and to reserve drill (60 miles one way), but it does have problems. I would fix it, but I just don't have the time and energy to work on two vehicles. Problems: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A01. runs poorly at low RPMs - I think I have sealed all vacum leaks and believe it needs a new timing chain =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0(RPMs actually jump around at idle) =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02. carb needs adjustment/work A: I bet 1 & 2 are related! Try crossing #1 and #6 plug wires with the air cleaner lid off, then make it backfire a couple times. That should cure the rough idle problem. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A03. turn signal switch doesn't work - I can take it out and it will work, then put it back and it stops A: Something is pushing up on the switch from inside the wheel. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A04. clutch linkage needs work =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A05. new exhaust, but the lead donut comming from the exhaust manifold needs to be replaced A: I thought it was 1 piece with the exhaust by then? If the pipe is hanging a bit, lift it up and wrap a coat hanger on the stud to quieten it down. Positive: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A01. tires are good, just replaced the rear tires this past year =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02. last year, rivited steel to fix floor and then fiberglassed =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A03. decent bench seat from '93 F150, full bench seat with head rests which seems to be rare =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A04. brakes are good (replaced all but a few sections of line) =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A05. runs well on the highway I will be leaving for awhile (until middle of next month) and the truck will be just sitting. If someone is interested in the truck or parts let me know and I will contact you as soon as I can. I must get rid of it by the end of next month. Later, Jamie "making compromises with the wife" Phillips A: I'm doing the same with my wife too! That's why the '88 Cherokee 2 dr and '86 Dodge van have to go very soon (and pay some bills too!) and the house has to be completed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:18:17 PDT From: "John Bushnell" Subject: fsj: RE: Edelbrock Performer Question Nate, If you could get the part # for me that would be great, I'm sure I could fab it, but I think I'll price it out first. Thanks, John >From: "Bednarik, Nathan" >To: "'John Bushnell'" >Subject: RE: Edelbrock Performer Question >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:08:27 -0400 > >I bought my carb used and the manifold new. The manifold came with all the >hardware needed for the auto tranny kickdown linkage, assuming you have all >the original parts. I would guess that the carb would supply everything >also, if it were purchased new that is. The only other thing you need to >purchased separately would be the throttle linkage adapter plate. Its a >little adapter that moves the cable bracket out a couple inches. It lines >the cable up a little better to compensate for the wider carb. I have the >dimensions of it at home, you could make one yourself pretty easily. I >think it cost me like $10 bucks from summit if you just want to buy it. I >dont have the part # but can get it tonight for you. You may find it on >edelbrocks web site too. let me know... > >Nate > > > ---------- > > From: John Bushnell[SMTP:mt_jeep-at-hotmail.com] > > Reply To: John Bushnell > > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 11:52 AM > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: fsj: Edelbrock Performer Question > > > > I'm looking at getting an edelbrock 1406 to put on a performer intake >for > > my > > 360 project (otherwise, one notch above stock). My question is: What > > other > > parts do I need to get to make the edelbrock work with the trottle cable > > and > > kick down linkage? Also, can I use the air cleaner that came with the > > 360/2150 comb, or do I need another, or an adaptor. > > > > Also, opinions cought on whether there is any better off-road carb that >I > > should be looking at? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > John > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:25:26 -0500 From: Roy Kesmodel Subject: fsj: Steering Problems Any front end experts, Vehicle is 'Tank' '83 Cherokee, 360 V8, Manual, 315K miles. Here are the symptoms: Pulls to the right. When turning, steers left correctly, seems to "drift" around right hand turns. That is, it feels like I am steering correctly but the vehicle "drifts" wide around the turn until I turn the wheel further the I should have to. Straightening takes same amount of movement to return. Any ideas? Am I driving under dangerous conditions? Recent (within past 1-1/2 years) front end work: Ball joints, Knuckles, Steering Damper. Thanks Roy '82 FSJ Chero WT Laredo, 'Tank' '79 Toronado '83 Buick Regal SW member of 1FSJ-at-egroups.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:09:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Jeep Will Start If U Do THis A: The wire you put back on the alt may be the problem, because the DSPO may have put in a 1 wire converted Delcotron alt. JeepNut wrote: Well you tried to tell me that once before.... =A0=A0=A0=A0Admiral, you called it once, and I proved it today.... I put the ECM box on and it fired right up. I put a new coil on it too 'cause I'm anal. I replaced some wires; miles of vacumn lines... but.... =A0=A0=A0=A0Now it won't shut off! =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I kid you not, after I got it fired up, I tried to shut it down... and it wouldn't! =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I am burning one killer Karmic ribbon here.... =A0 So the FSM says for engines that won't die at key-off only 2 things. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Starter Solenoid =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Shorted Diode in Alternator warning lamp circuit =A0 Replace Diode. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Does this mean a diode in the alternator? or elsewhere?... =A0 To make a long story short, I had messed up the wires to the alternator. So I had 12V feed to the coil+ all the time. =A0=A0=A0=A0With all that fixed, it's running finally... =A0=A0=A0=A0and I'm ready to try on gasket #3 on that damned 727 pan.... it's still leaking a pint a day or better. I've got to get it fixed better than that.... I just wish I could save that fluid somehow... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Anyway, great gobs of thanks to all who offered some ideas! I've still got a lot of details to followup to get the thing road-ready by Thursday! And about 4 acres of grass to cut, tiller to load, dogs to bathe, packing to do, etc, etc,... Tomorrow? A/C Recharge! It's supposed be 88 tomorrow!! Anybody wanna cut some of that grass? =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0JeepNut ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:41:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: NP229 weight I am surprised! An NP229, with both yokes attached, but no oil, and no VC weighs exactly 100lbs! The part that usually gets broken on these things when the VC goes is the part of the case in the front that the snap ring sits in. Brad Seevers got my Eagle NP129 ('82 -'88) and maybe he will tell us for sure if the front 1/2 will swap. If so, those of you that are fixing them can look for Eagle transfercases for the VC AND the front case 1/2. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 100 15:57:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: NP229 weight Only 100lbs!!?? I figured it was more like 150lbs! They sure aren't light! The front half of the case is not a direct swap. The problem is the 229 has a bigger hole than the 129 for the shift rod. On the 229 it is a rod inside a rod -- something like one for range and one for mode. But the 129 only has high range so the hole is a little smaller. I'm pretty sure the hole can be bored or reamed out and would work. I'm planning on trying this someday. It isn't completely trivial because I think the hole has an extra recess for an o-ring or seal, so that will need to be cut in as well. Other than that the front halfs are the same as far as I can tell. I think things are easier for the back halfs. There is something like 6 holes that need to be drilled out in the 129 case, but there are blind dummies aready there so it should be very easy. The holes are for retaining the lock ring for the low range. So far this information is from visual inspection, and not from an actual adaption. I plan on trying someday.. - -brad Jim Blair writes: > I am surprised! An NP229, with both yokes attached, but no oil, and no > VC weighs exactly 100lbs! The part that usually gets broken on these > things when the VC goes is the part of the case in the front that the > snap ring sits in. Brad Seevers got my Eagle NP129 ('82 -'88) and maybe > he will tell us for sure if the front 1/2 will swap. If so, those of you > that are fixing them can look for Eagle transfercases for the VC AND the > front case 1/2. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:51:33 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Third week into FSJ ownership (long) DSandelands-at-aol.com writes: >> Did some research on a trans swap. Seems like a TH700R4 is the easiest swap. The 700r4 would suck substantially less power off of the engine and I guess if I can't figure out a way to retrofit a manual it wi= ll have to do. Advanced adapters makes a transfer case adapter for the 700r= 4, but its expensive at about $500. If anyone knows of another way to mate the 700r4 to the QT please let me know. Another possiblility which I haven't had time to check out is the 4L80E. Possibly, the TH400 tailshaft= would bolt in, but even if it did, this swap would have extensive compute= r control issues. Finally, does anyone know if the Spicer 18 is a direct bolt in for a QT. I.e., would the front and rear drive shafts need to be modified? I reall= y want a manual trans even if I have to change transfer cases to get it. << I agree with the 700R4 being the easiest swap. There are a lot of aftermarket solutions for the TV cable. It seems to be about a 50/50 spli= t between no problems and problems with front double-cardan to the tranny p= an rail clearance. You would also need an AMC to Chevy bell housing adapter = on the other end of the tranny. I don't know much about the 4L80E swap but, there is a company in Canada called Auto Trans Group (ATG) which makes an aftermarket controlle= r for the 80E. The 80E has the same gear ratios as the TH-400 with an appro= x. 25% overdrive 4th. gear added. The 700R4/4L60/4L60E all have more desirab= le ratios with a 3.06 1st, 1.63 2nd, 1.00 3rd and .70 4th. I suspect the 80E= is longer than a TH-400 too. The 700R4 family is a little shorter than a TH-400 which helps when it comes to the adapter widths. I have an Art Carr prepared '98 4L60E with integral bell housing, three adapters and an ATG controller all awaiting installation in my '79 WT. It looks like I might be in the pan clearance trouble category too. I'll figure it all out before I'm committed and come-up with an elegant solution. >> However, these same sources indicate that the TH400 is probably the least efficient automatic around. I remember an old Hot Rod test where they stated that the TH400 drained 40 HP from an engine through frictiona= l losses whereas a TH350 used only 25 HP. I can't supply a cite for this, but I think these numbers are generally accepted as correct. Presumably modern automatics and manuals are significantly more efficient. << I've seen similar data as well. The TH-400 is one of the worst for frictional losses at high RPM. But in the real world, you'd be hard press= ed to find much difference in mileage between similar TH-400 and TF-727 FSJs= . Just returned from a quality weekend of FSJ adventure in the Black Rock Desert and we all watched our mileage closely. We had an '88 with a 727 a= nd the remaining 3 FSJs with 400s. The final figures are not in yet but, even SuperKen ('66 SuperWag w/ 4.27s, 16% OD, Chevy 350 & 33s) got better= than 13.25 MPG on the 1st leg of the trip. Which was not under perfect conditions but, not bad either. I traveled 380 miles or so total with abo= ut 180 of them off-road with a lot of slow stuff and if I take 17 gallons wh= en I fill-up like I think it will; I averaged right at 11 MPG overall. Considering that there is at least 12 hours of less than 15 MPH 4-wheelin= g in there, we all got outstanding mileage. Michel with his '74 will probab= ly turn-out to be the mileage champ. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:51:09 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Ultimate water pump feedback - ------------------------------------------------------------------ FORWARDED MESSAGE - Orig: 19-May-00 20:05 Subject: RE: case number 18776 From: Sophy Kea INTERNET:SophyK-at-CarParts.com To: Michael Baxter MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------ = Dear Micahel, Our system is now bettter so I am confident that this won't happen again.= If it does you know who to call. Thank You, Sophy Kea - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Baxter [mailto:MBaxter-at-compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 6:14 PM To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-at-compuserve.com Subject: RE: case number 18776 >> We place an order for part# 110-1040P GMB Water Pump. You new order number is R433582*3 = To request the shipment status of your order after 48 hours, copy and pas= te the URL below into your browser and reference your order number R433582*3= http://www.carparts.com/parts/cs/webforms/orderstatus.asp I will note this new invoice so that the credit card dispute will be resolved upon the delivery of the GMB water pump. = << Sophy, The GMB 110-1040P water pump arrived last Friday. It is exactly wh= at I wanted for my engine build project. Thank you! I faxed the credit card company on Monday and asked them to dismiss the dispute against Carparts.com. Thanks again for your perseverance in this matter. I will certainly be ordering from your company again in the future. NExt time I'll make sure I specify "no substitutions please" in t= he event I'm seeking a particular brand and model part again. One question Sophy. Would this process be easily repeated if I were to tell 950 (literally) other people that Carparts.com has GMB 110-1040Ps? T= he GMB appears to me to be the best choice by far for a high flow water pump= for the AMC V-8 engine. Other high flow pumps have a disk riveted on the impeller and the rivets can contact the timing cover which has caused the= rivet heads to wear down and the disk to separate from the impeller. Whic= h ruins the water pump and the timing cover. The GMB high flow pump has the= disk attached with big, recessed, spot welds instead of rivets. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 23-May-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:54:49 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: another crazy idea from snohomish I'm giving some thought to selling used and new parts via my website. I wouldn't be fast, and I may not even be the cheapest. But I may be able to locate parts unavailable elsewhere... I'm thinking primarily for the older rigs... primarily FSJ jeep parts, and XJ parts internationally. The Benz parts are plentiful through a number of sources, some sell cheaper than I can buy wholesale! :) But there are three used parts source for Benz in the area... and I may provide a service there. Anyway, I find myself answering a lot of email with guys looking for parts. I reply telling them of a few places I know... and I get nothing for my effort (except their appreciation, which, in the grand scheme of things is truly worth more than any profit I might make. :) What got me thinking about this is my costco renewal form... they offer a discount credit card transaction service! That and I'm getting a handle on Perl scripting, so I can secure my server for credit card transactions... The biggest problem is going to be finding the time to ship the parts, which means I'm not going to be the speediest service in the world... but hey, if you're looking for fenders for a mid-70's Wagoneer... it may be worth the wait. rofl... Let me know what you think. I figure you folks would let me know if the idea stinks right off the bat. ;) I know I've shipped a few parts to some of you over the years. (like transmissions, transfer cases, roof racks, xj parts, and so on... ;) I guess I'm getting tired of telling people where to go... ;) ...so I might as well activate the Dot-com in Wagoneers.com. :) thanx. john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #869 *************************