From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu May 25 13:52:46 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, May 25 2000 Volume 01 : Number 873 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Picky Picky fsj: Re: Pics Of SW OH 2000 FSJ Fest fsj: Re: Jeep Will Start If U Do THis fsj: 50-50 chance fsj: Re: 50-50 chance fsj: howdy there everyone i need some help please fsj: DSPO's Maintainance fsj: RE: DSPO's Maintainance Re: [1FSJ] Re: fsj: the results are in... fsj: JeepPartsbyJohn fsj: $700 GW in SF for sale FYI fsj: RE: [www] IRC... Re: fsj: DSPO's Maintainance fsj: FSJ logo patches? fsj: Re: Fw: Black Rock Trip Pics...a selection of the better ones Re: fsj: Re: Fw: Black Rock Trip Pics...a selection of the better ones fsj: Re: Start-Run-Stop - the Answer FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:48:03 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Re: Picky Picky Replies as follows..... "B. COLUCCI" wrote: > > > So the FSM says for engines that won't die at key-off only 2 things. > > Starter Solenoid > > Are you sure that you have the wiring on the new solenoid and the new relay > correctly. Double check that relay especially; so many wires, and so many > similar looking places to put them. > Naw, the starter swap is basic in this case, the ignition solenoid is more tricky, but basically I have mapped the whole system out now. I think I'm gonna do it in Visio eventually so I'll have a keeper copy. Continuing... > > Shorted Diode in Alternator warning lamp circuit Replace > > Diode. > > Does this mean a diode in the alternator? or elsewhere?... > > Wait, I don't think you have an Alt. warning lamp on an 88; have you ever seen > one? So it has to ne something cooked in the Alt itself. Did I see something > about a mystery wire you found near your Alt? If so did you hook it up? I > would try to unhook it and tape it off and see if you have the same problem. No there's no Alt warning lamp in there. That's described though in the FSM I have for the '84. But then so is an MCU with the 360 and I'm pretty sure there is no such creature in this system. I don't think it was modified from previous. It was pretty much a stock unit when I got it. The wiring goes Green wire from the I input to solenoid- splits to ECU and off thru the firewall. Haven't traced it but don't think there's a computer on the other side of the firewall. Then there is the resistance wire part. That wire runs from the ECU to the right fender area, spliced. One wire down to the alternator. Other wire thru 1.35ohms resistance, spliced. One wire ending at the Solenoid F connector. Other wire ending at the coil+. Coil- feeds back to the ECU. Now I'm no engineer, but I am a tech-type, and I've mapped it out and that's the complete circuit, no Computer other than the ECU though it shows one in the '84 FSM. The coil gets only 8volts due to resistance wire circuit. This would what... improve coil life? ...but at start time it gets 12v to boost the start-up spark. The ECU gets the pickup coil signal and fires the coil- for sparks. But the tip in the manual re: alternator made me look again at the circuit drawing I made and I DID have to reinsert the wires into the alternator plug.... Assuming I had them reversed, it appeared to me that this would essentially put 12V on the wrong side of the rectifiers, thereby causing my problem. I reversed the wires on the alternator plug and the problems were gone... The truck then shut down normally. > > Thursday! And about 4 acres of grass to cut, > I have 6 acres; there is never enough time. Oh, I've already done 2....actually I did another 2 today, only 2 left! JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 21:38:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Pics Of SW OH 2000 FSJ Fest yeah, but ya gotta run your mouse over the J10 with the high beams on at http://www.wagoneers.com first. :) john On Wed, 24 May 2000, B. COLUCCI wrote: >-->Greetings To THe FSJ World! >--> >-->For all of you who only could visualize it in your head, the official >-->pictures from the SW OH FSJ Fest are not out on Wagoneers.com at: >--> >-->http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/fests/SW-Ohio-2000-fest/ >--> >-->So happy viewing! >--> >--> >--> >--> >-->Until The Next Dimension, >-->Admiral "Coluch." >-->Starfleet Headquarters >-->Ohio Post >-->End Transmission........................................ >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:52:00 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Re: Jeep Will Start If U Do THis Hmmm..... good idea, I'll have to look for that too... Thanks! JeepNut Kim Smith wrote: > Any chance It's also leaking around the o-ring that seals the > filler/dipstick tube? I've had that happen too, > > kim > '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JeepNut" > To: ; "FSJ List" > Sent: Tuesday, 23 May, 2000 22:19 > Subject: fsj: Re: Jeep Will Start If U Do THis > > > Well you tried to tell me that once before.... > > Admiral, you called it once, and I proved it today.... I put the > > ECM > > box on and it fired right up. I put a new coil on it too 'cause I'm > > anal. > > I replaced some wires; miles of vacumn lines... but.... > > Now it won't shut off! > > I kid you not, after I got it fired up, I tried to shut it down... > > and it wouldn't! > > I am burning one killer Karmic ribbon here.... > > So the FSM says for engines that won't die at key-off only 2 things. > > Starter Solenoid > > Shorted Diode in Alternator warning lamp circuit Replace > > Diode. > > Does this mean a diode in the alternator? or elsewhere?... > > To make a long story short, I had messed up the wires to the > > alternator. So I had 12V feed to the coil+ all the time. > > With all that fixed, it's running finally... > > and I'm ready to try on gasket #3 on that damned 727 pan.... it's > > still leaking a pint a day or better. I've got to get it fixed better > > than that.... I just wish I could save that fluid somehow... > > Anyway, great gobs of thanks to all who offered some ideas! I've > > still got a lot of details to followup to get the thing road-ready by > > Thursday! And about 4 acres of grass to cut, tiller to load, dogs to > > bathe, packing to do, etc, etc,... Tomorrow? A/C Recharge! It's > > supposed be 88 tomorrow!! Anybody wanna cut some of that grass? > > JeepNut > > > > > > "B. COLUCCI" wrote: > > > > > Greetings Jeepnut & the Rest Of The FSJ World! > > > > > > You did well by having that spare starter from the MJ. Been there and > > > done that; it's hard to believe but when these FSJ starters malfunction > > > they set up their own internal power field that acts like a generator to > > > keep them running even without voltage being supplied. Would not > > > believe it if I had not seen it on the USS GW only after replacing the > > > logical items like you have also done. > > > > > > Now I too have seen the problem with the key in the start position and > > > the engine will not fire. then when you release the key it acts like it > > > wants to fire. Simple fix; replace the Ford Durraspark Module. The > > > cranking circuit in yours has failed; yet the run circuit is fine. > > > > > > Until The Next Dimension, > > > Admiral "Coluch." > > > Starfleet Headquarters > > > Ohio Post > > > End Transmission........................................ > > > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > > '92 Cherokee > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:55:54 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: 50-50 chance OK, so the trans pan gasket is weepy, but not horrible... I haven't yet gotten around to trying gasket #3... Practice makes perfect... And I think I need to pay attention to the corner of the pan a little more this time... anyway... I see a lot of fluid coming out at the joint of the transfer case and the tranny. So which is the most likely candidate? Rear seal of the 727 dropping fluid? or Front seal of the 229 dropping fluid? JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:01:25 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: 50-50 chance - ----- Original Message ----- From: "JeepNut" To: "FSJ List" Sent: Thursday, 25 May, 2000 22:55 Subject: fsj: 50-50 chance > OK, so the trans pan gasket is weepy, but not horrible... I haven't yet > gotten around to trying gasket #3... Practice makes perfect... And I > think I need to pay attention to the corner of the pan a little more > this time... anyway... > > I see a lot of fluid coming out at the joint of the transfer case and > the tranny. > So which is the most likely candidate? > Rear seal of the 727 dropping fluid? or > Front seal of the 229 dropping fluid? - ------------------------------------------ Yes. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 01:05:57 EDT From: REBluvzCLM-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: howdy there everyone i need some help please hey everyone it is me again and i need some help(as usual, where else would i go?) i need some help selling my 1979 jeep cherokee chief, i just sold my comanche today, anyhow i am selling the cherokee for about $4250 but the price is negotiable. it has a 360 v8, full time 4-wheel drive, automatic transmission, 2 doors, K&N airfilter, Clifford car alarm, and a whole bunch of other stuff as well. i can get pictures of it in a couple of days(gotta wait until i get paid so i can buy batteries for my new digital camera) and if anyone is interested i will be glad to send pictures of the Chief to them. I live in Alabama and i would bring it up to you(wherever you are if you are serious about it) but the only thing is that i am working about 60 hours a week at work and i do not have enough time to travel anywhere but to work =o( so i am sorry about that part but anyone is more than welcome to come on down and i will give you directions to get here and everything. Thank ya'll so very much and i appreciate it very much! Thanks, Robbie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:12:13 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: DSPO's Maintainance >From our shared laments, this is how our DSPO's must have maintained the fuel systems of our FSJ's. kim ++++++++++++ Laughter is the brush that sweeps away the cobwebs of the heart. - --- Mort Walker ++++++++++++ A young blonde stock broker was bored with driving her BMW. It lacked individuality and besides that, every other girl in the office had one. She fancied something a bit more individual, perhaps an MG convertible. That week she visited her local car dealer and spied a beautiful Jaguar XK140 convertible. It was wonderfully restored and she fell in love with it's gorgeous red paintwork. An empty cheque stub later and off she was tearing down the leafy country lanes enjoying her beautiful new car. Her long blonde hair was flowing in the wind, music blaring from the radio, what could possibly go wrong? At that thought there was a splutter from the engine and the car slowly coasted to a stop. She got out and lifted the bonnet and concluded after a few minutes that she didn't have a bloody clue what was wrong. Luckily she had her mobile phone with her and a quick phone call to the AutoClub and a short wait saw a bright shiny yellow van pull up behind her. "That's a lovely car," said the mechanic. "What seems to be the matter?" "Well, it just conked out I'm afraid." "Let me have look." He set to work and ten minutes later the engine was purring like a cat again. "Thank goodness," she said. "What was the matter?" "Simple really, just crap in the carburetor," he replied. Looking shocked she asked, "Oh, OK. How many times a week do I have to do that?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:37:03 -0500 From: "Bob Bradfield,MCSE" Subject: fsj: RE: DSPO's Maintainance ROFL!!! I know mine did! Bob Bradfield 83 Wag Ltd "Omen" - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Kim Smith Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 12:12 AM To: FSJ List Subject: fsj: DSPO's Maintainance >From our shared laments, this is how our DSPO's must have maintained the fuel systems of our FSJ's. kim ++++++++++++ Laughter is the brush that sweeps away the cobwebs of the heart. - --- Mort Walker ++++++++++++ A young blonde stock broker was bored with driving her BMW. It lacked individuality and besides that, every other girl in the office had one. She fancied something a bit more individual, perhaps an MG convertible. That week she visited her local car dealer and spied a beautiful Jaguar XK140 convertible. It was wonderfully restored and she fell in love with it's gorgeous red paintwork. An empty cheque stub later and off she was tearing down the leafy country lanes enjoying her beautiful new car. Her long blonde hair was flowing in the wind, music blaring from the radio, what could possibly go wrong? At that thought there was a splutter from the engine and the car slowly coasted to a stop. She got out and lifted the bonnet and concluded after a few minutes that she didn't have a bloody clue what was wrong. Luckily she had her mobile phone with her and a quick phone call to the AutoClub and a short wait saw a bright shiny yellow van pull up behind her. "That's a lovely car," said the mechanic. "What seems to be the matter?" "Well, it just conked out I'm afraid." "Let me have look." He set to work and ten minutes later the engine was purring like a cat again. "Thank goodness," she said. "What was the matter?" "Simple really, just crap in the carburetor," he replied. Looking shocked she asked, "Oh, OK. How many times a week do I have to do that?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:08:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: [1FSJ] Re: fsj: the results are in... A: I was going to go on thurs and pickup my son, but my check didn't come in yet, and he has to go for physiotherapy friday and monday. Not sure which filter I will need yet. Still not sure if I will run gas or LPG. John wrote: so when's your next trip through? ;) I should be able to get the linkages in place and pick up an AMSOIL air filter... :) Anything else we need? I've got to run down to Bellevue Saturday at 1pm, probably won't be back until the evening. ONce we get the setup correct it should do great! I'll also need to change the speedo gear. :) So which AMSOIL air filter did you want, the one for the 4.2 or the 4.0? Let me know. :) john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:36:13 -0500 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: JeepPartsbyJohn 
I'm giving some thought to selling used and new parts via my website.
I've been on this list for about 3 months, and have seen no mention of 'one stop shopping for Jeep parts'
Web searches are unreliable and slow.
Sometimes I don't even know what I want, I just have an end goal in mind, and need a consultant - something more than basic advice.

Seems like a good idea, I just hope it doesn't kill the information exchange here.  I think we can still give answers, and the place to go for the physical solution - Email John and get ready to write the check.

- Landon
'89 GW (the wife is now driving and fits better in the garage than the Olds, which I think surprised the heck out of her)
Austin, TX ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 12:48:29 EDT From: RKH911-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: $700 GW in SF for sale FYI Ran across this ad while looking for Jeep Parts..LOL. Not mine nor do I know anything about it. http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C16+A0+R163126+Q259132636 Rob Harrison 85 Grand Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:38:19 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: [www] IRC... On Thu, 25 May 2000, Starc, Dan wrote: >-->I just want to see John hit the trail with us, just once...how long has it >-->been? >-->:-) >-->Dan let's not use the word "hit"... ;) I'm sure my wife would let me try to destroy Superdawg on the trail, but she won't let me play with her jeep... :) Superdawg ain't quite ready for trail activity... I have to finish the body lift, redo the spring packs, build some armor for the cab, protect the bed, fix the rear bumper... get the throttle cables setup and then find a trail that will accomodate a 118" wheelbase. :) john >--> ------------------------------------------------------------- >--> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg >--> SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 >--> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >--> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >--> ------- >--> ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... >--> ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... >--> ------------------------------------------------------------- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:08:54 EDT From: DSandelands-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: DSPO's Maintainance In a message dated 5/24/00 10:34:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wmksmith-at-bigsky.net writes: << A young blonde stock broker was bored with driving her BMW. It lacked individuality and besides that, every other girl in the office had one. She fancied something a bit more individual, perhaps an MG convertible. That week she visited her local car dealer and spied a beautiful Jaguar XK140 convertible. It was wonderfully restored and she fell in love with it's gorgeous red paintwork. An empty cheque stub later and off she was tearing down the leafy country lanes enjoying her beautiful new car. Her long blonde hair was flowing in the wind, music blaring from the radio, what could possibly go wrong? >> Flowing blonde hair, BMW, XK140, hmm...you wouldn't happen to have her phone number would you:) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 13:06:53 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: FSJ logo patches? I'm getting quotes on getting the FSJ logo made into patches. How serious should I get about spending more money I don't have? ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 13:31:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Fw: Black Rock Trip Pics...a selection of the better ones On Thu, 25 May 2000, Michael Baxter wrote: >--> >-->Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 5:24 PM >-->Subject: Black Rock Trip Pics...a selection of the better ones http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/trail/BlackRock :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 13:44:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Fw: Black Rock Trip Pics...a selection of the better ones hey, you're fast... I just cleaned up the pages... subtitles, background, and so on... check it out again. (all the pictures load automatically now. ;) have vi, will edit. john On Thu, 25 May 100, Brad Seevers wrote: >--> >-->Okay, Okay, next time I'm taking my wag so you will let me in the pics! :) >--> >-->-brad >--> >-->John writes: >--> >-->> On Thu, 25 May 2000, Michael Baxter wrote: >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 5:24 PM >-->> >-->Subject: Black Rock Trip Pics...a selection of the better ones >-->> >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/trail/BlackRock >-->> >-->> :) >-->> john >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:59:51 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Re: Start-Run-Stop - the Answer Success it seems finally. The Waggie fired right up hot and ran this morning with no problems. My conclusion is that there were multiple problems at work here. 1. After replacing the starter, the starter did not continue to grind on after releasing the key. 2. After replacing the ECU, it would actually start and run. But in the mornings only for 2 days straight, would start/die repeatedly for about 30 minutes of trying before actually starting and continuing to run and restart for the balance of each day. 3. Replaced the throttle solenoid. Wow, I don't have to use 2 feet anymore to keep it running at a light! 4. After replacing the fuel pump at the end of day 2, tested after installation an Waggie started and all was well. Left sit overnight and this morning, it seems perfect. ... well... as far as running is concerned... see my next post.... I don't know about the rest of you but AFIK the 88 Waggie is as close to computer controlled as I ever want to get. I hate that '92 XJ.... I'd trade it for a REAL good SJ Cherokee.... if I could do it with no money swapped.... I'd rather her drive an SJ and get rid of that XJ. I don't know how in the world a description of an MCU got into the FSM; compelete with pinouts to the box, but the box is never shown, not described, no schematic, etc. just references in the text to the MCU and the ECU and schematics with lines shown with leads off to "the MCU". Someone got confused in the tech writing dept and somehow added some MJ parts to the SJ shop manaul descriptions, eh? No wait, this is an '84 manual, so the MCU wasn't even being used yet was it? The 4.0l was not available yet... I wonder if Tom Benvie would have some interesting take on this little anomoly. Maybe there were some plans in AMC to actaully use the computer system on the SJ's too... Oh well, I can only keep up with one list at a time.... and the grass is cut! fortunately mine is generally just rolling and I don't have to do anything but ride the Sabre around for about 10-15 hours a week... as long as I don't miss a week... but we don't care about rain down here. Unless it is lightning, I mow on... no time to wait for cooperation from nature.... When it stays dry enough, I've got a 8hp chipper/shredder/vac unit and I sweep the whole 6 acres clean several times a year. No leaves to rake/burn and no hay to rake/choke out the grass... and that pile of fresh clippings in the trench out back sure smells sweet from time to time... of course vacuming 6 acres is not for the feint of heart... That's a whole weekend, sun-up to sun-down, both days. Saddlesores are not just for cowboys. I leave in the a.m. to meet the family tomorrow nite and for my wife's surprize 50th b-day (Sat -at-1300)! Whew! That was cuttin' it close! JeepNut who is sooooo happy to have Waggie up and running again... "B. COLUCCI" wrote: > Greetings JeepNut! > > JeepNut wrote: > > THe only thing close to a brain in an FSJ is that Durraspark unit. There are no > monsters under your dash. Everything is as it appears. Turn on a switch, and it > actually activates that device; no routing the signal through some computer for > approval to turn on that device; like on the new luxo-cruisers. I have a friend who > is a tech. at a Ford dealer. He was telling me of his recent fight with a new Ford > F-350 that would blow fuses when you would adjust the power mirrors. He spent half a > day tracing circuits, wires, and relays only to find one of the computers in the truck > had gone flaky. > > > I reversed the wires on the alternator plug and the problems were gone... The truck > then shut down normally. > > > Oh, I've already done 2....actually I did another 2 today, only 2 left! > > JeepNut > > > > I've done 2 then had 1'' of rain each day sense then; still 4 to go; and 2 of those I > have to walk with a commercial walk behind mower. It's all steep hill in that > section. That is the part I hate the most. > > Until The Next Dimension, > Admiral "Coluch." > Starfleet Headquarters > Ohio Post > End Transmission........................................ - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #873 *************************