From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri May 26 09:02:45 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, May 26 2000 Volume 01 : Number 874 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: Fw: Black Rock Trip Pics...a selection of the better ones fsj: AC parts anyone? fsj: Vacumn test fsj: leaky leaky fsj: Jeeps -at- Govt. Auction 6/15/00 Ames, Iowa fsj: throttle bracket arrived! fsj: Re: Vacumn test fsj: Re: FSJ Subscription Re: fsj: Re: Start-Run-Stop - the Answer Re: fsj: ok, try this one out... ;) fsj: some new pages on wagoneers.com fsj: Re: AC parts anyone? fsj: axle whine on accelleration? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 May 100 13:53:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Fw: Black Rock Trip Pics...a selection of the better ones Okay, Okay, next time I'm taking my wag so you will let me in the pics! :) - -brad John writes: > On Thu, 25 May 2000, Michael Baxter wrote: > > >--> > >-->Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 5:24 PM > >-->Subject: Black Rock Trip Pics...a selection of the better ones > > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/trail/BlackRock > > :) > john ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:33:25 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: AC parts anyone? Hello all, With the Waggie running now, I stupidly thought I might get some A/C before tomorrow morning.... So I drove over to the local shop I use for a few things and found out it needs a new compressor which I knew, but also needs a new condenser/evap unit and of course associated dryer, R134 converters, etc. He let me take home the UV light and look for leaks after he put a couple of cans in it. The AC was good for about a week or two before it went down last time, so it is a real slow leak. I went out well after dark last night to find nothing under the hood, along the heat exchanger up front, or in the interior using the UV light, which he tells me usually means the evap unit in the plenum, so you can't see the leak until you are well into disassembly. Sounds reasonable. I expect it is pretty rusty in there after a while.... Likely why the plenum chamber housing is made from plastic stuff... Anybody suggest the best place for AC parts? My shop guy would not even put on the AutoZone compressor I bought. He begged me to take it back. So now I'm looking at what he thinks will be $300 vice $90 for the compressor. And 300 for an evap, 60 for a dryer/receiver, 60 for an E-Valve, some dye, fluid, etc. It'll run $1200 with labor before it's over. Anybody have one of those shop books that shows man-hours to replace the AC system? or a good guess? He is willing to put on parts I bring in though. His son told me straight up that if I bring the parts, I will spend less. They are just a mom & pop shop and don't get any discount on the parts they buy he says... so, he says I can probably do better getting the parts myself. I don't know. My normal supplier isn't really cheap, but always has gotten what I needed (Specialty Parts, San Carlos, CA). And they only carry OEM/Mopar parts like the $300 compressor. Not junk like the $90.00 one. After all, I'm only looking for two sides of the triangle, Good & Cheap, I can spare the Fast leg. This should work, right? Thoughts anyone? Ohhh John,... got that Perl script done yet? JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:48:20 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Vacumn test Hi Mr. Smith, Where do you pull the vacumn from to test typically? There's a lotta hose under there. I just installed all of it. ALL of it. I've got rolls of hose 7/32 or something like that for 1/8"nipples, 1/4, 3/16, 3/8, AND 5/16 waiting for my next victim. Of course I did both axle vents. And I did the fuel lines when I replaced the fuel pump/filter yesterday... handy to have plenty of hose on hand. JeepNut Kim Smith wrote in part, in a thread some time ago....: > ...Guess what? Vacuum is now 19.5 psi, with 133,000 miles on the engine, at > 3000 feet altitude. > > kim > '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219-- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:17:11 -0500 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: leaky leaky Hi, Steve. So which is the most likely candidate? Rear seal of the 727 dropping fluid? or Front seal of the 229 dropping fluid? I'd say the rear of the transmission. Again, check that it's not too full. Mine leaked real bad, then stopped. Maybe you need a new transmission mount ? allowing the transmission to walk around ? tearing up seals as it hits the limits ? tearing up the engine mounts ? just like mine ? Maybe this weekend. - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:06:07 EDT From: BLW1540-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Jeeps -at- Govt. Auction 6/15/00 Ames, Iowa For the information of any who may be interested: Public Auction Sale 61FBPS00-039 Thursday, June 15, 2000, 11:00 AM Iowa Dept. of Natural Resources State Forest Nursery 2404 South Duff Avenue Ames, Iowa 50010 Jeep vehicles included in the list of items to be sold: 002: Truck, Tractor, 1967 Jeep 6x6 5 Ton, Est Mileage 30674, VIN 9624-11276 003: Chassis, Truck, 1967 Jeep 6x6 2 1/2 Ton, Est Mileage 14678, VIN 04H-2271-0525-21866 (Wiring Burnt, Parts Missing) 007: Truck, Cargo, 1979 Jeep 6x6 2 1/2 Ton, Est Mileage 35891, VIN 04M-89170-0525-16657 (Motor Bad) 008: Jeep, 1955 Willys Jeep, M38A1, 4x4 Est Mileage 45065 VIN 84600 (Parts Missing) 009: Jeep, 1952 M38, 4x4, 1/4 Ton, Est Mileage 19238, VIN 27829 010: Jeep 1952, Model Unknown, 4x4, 1/4 Ton, Est Mileage 1298, VIN 17752 (Missing Parts) 011: Jeep 1952, M38A1, 4x4, 1/4 Ton, Est Mileage 42653, VIN 56387 (Parts Missing) 012: Jeep 1952, M38A1, 4x4, 1/4 Ton, Est Mileage Unknown (Odometer Missing) VIN 7197 (Parts Missing) 013: Jeep 1952, Model Unknown, 4x4 1/4 Ton, Est Mileage 53582, VIN 23456 (Parts Missing) 014: Jeep 1952, Willys Jeep, M38A1, 4x4, Est Mileage 31790 VIN 19791 (Parts Missing) 015: Jeep 1953, M38A1, 4x4, 1/4 Ton, Est Mileage 30783, VIN 62578 020: Pickup, 1967, Jeep M715, 4x4, Est Mileage 10680, VIN 11449 (Engine Partially Disassembled, Parts Missing) 021: Pickup, 1968, Jeep M715, 4x4, Est Mileage 8167, VIN 20652 (Engine Missing, Has Adapter to Mount Small Block Chevy) Property Custodian: Gail Kantak, 515-233-1161 Inspection: June 15, 2000, 8:00 to 11:00 AM Full Payment Must Be Made Before 2:00 PM Day of Sale Removal Must Be By 3:30 PM June 16, 2000 No Removal Until Completion of Sale No Removal Saturday or Sunday Mastercard, Amex, Visa, Discover, Bravo & Private Choice Cards Accepted No Loading Assistance Available Bruce Wilson 84 GW Des Moines, IA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:52:52 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: throttle bracket arrived! Thanx Tom, got the package today. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:21:51 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: Vacumn test You need to test vacuum from any place that supplies full manifold vacuum. I use the vacuum supply to the cruise control on my Waggy, as it's handy. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "JeepNut" To: "Kim Smith" ; "_FSJ List" Sent: Friday, 26 May, 2000 15:48 Subject: Vacumn test > Hi Mr. Smith, > Where do you pull the vacumn from to test typically? There's a lotta hose > under there. I just installed all of it. ALL of it. I've got rolls of hose > 7/32 or something like that for 1/8"nipples, 1/4, 3/16, 3/8, AND 5/16 waiting > for my next victim. Of course I did both axle vents. And I did the fuel lines > when I replaced the fuel pump/filter yesterday... handy to have plenty of hose > on hand. > JeepNut > > Kim Smith wrote in part, in a thread some time ago....: > > > ...Guess what? Vacuum is now 19.5 psi, with 133,000 miles on the engine, at > > 3000 feet altitude. > > > > kim > > '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219-- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > '92 Cherokee > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:40:25 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: FSJ Subscription On Thu, 25 May 2000, Ernest Dodd wrote: >-->Hi, >--> >-->I have a 64 j200 with the original I-6 OHC 230 and 3sp tranny. I am >-->considering swapping it out for a V-8 but do not have any experience with >-->FSJ. I have done major modifications to other vehicles but none to jeeps. FSJ's are very easy to do swap's in. My second swap was with an FSJ, and it was very easy. :) ...well, as easy as swaps go I mean. :) >--> >-->I have the opportunity to purchase a 327 Kaiser and hopefully a 4sp( T-18?) >-->in a donor truck but do not know if this is a wise choice of engine and >-->whether or not there is a better V-8 to choose. Believe it or not, that's the engine I swapped out of my 67 Wag... ;) My son has one in his 67 J3000, we haven't really got the thing on the road yet, but it drove here, and he terrorizes the yard with it. :) >-->It seems from the little info I can gleam that the 327 was an optional >-->engine in 65 and maybe, just maybe it will bolt rite up to my transfer case >-->with the 4sp. The 327 has 130hp more as well as 150ft/LB over and above the >-->230, but is it a dependable engine? I don't know. dependable, but you'll forever be explaining to the folks at the parts counter that is is NOT a Chevy 327... :) If you're gonna do a swap, go for something with Fuel Injection, you know a more modern engine. I've got an 83 J10 Stepside with a 258, and I'm considering putting in a 4.0L out of an XJ. So far the motivation is low, my 258 is running well and I'm steadily improving the mileage. :) Staying with a Jeep engine makes sense, if you can. I'd give some thought to a 4.0L setup in your rig. You'd gain plenty of power, and still have economy. My 88 xj wagoneer has OVER 201,000 miles on the original driveline... that 4.0L is a great engine. :) >--> >-->Any info will be greatly appreciated. >--> >-->Thanks...Ernest. >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: john >-->To: Ernest Dodd >-->Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 6:06 PM >-->Subject: Re: FSJ Subscription >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg >-->> SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 >-->> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >-->> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >-->> ------- >-->> ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... >-->> ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:07:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Start-Run-Stop - the Answer A: The MCU is the carb control computer for the 6 cyl BBD AFAIK. Jeepnut wrote: Success it seems finally. The Waggie fired right up hot and ran this morning with no problems. My conclusion is that there were multiple problems at work here. 1. After replacing the starter, the starter did not continue to grind on after releasing the key. 2. After replacing the ECU, it would actually start and run. But in the mornings only for 2 days straight, would start/die repeatedly for about 30 minutes of trying before actually starting and continuing to run and restart for the balance of each day. 3. Replaced the throttle solenoid. Wow, I don't have to use 2 feet anymore to keep it running at a light! 4. After replacing the fuel pump at the end of day 2, tested after installation an Waggie started and all was well. Left sit overnight and this morning, it seems perfect. ... well... as far as running is concerned... see my next post.... I don't know about the rest of you but AFIK the 88 Waggie is as close to computer controlled as I ever want to get. I hate that '92 XJ.... I'd trade it for a REAL good SJ Cherokee.... if I could do it with no money swapped.... I'd rather her drive an SJ and get rid of that XJ. I don't know how in the world a description of an MCU got into the FSM; compelete with pinouts to the box, but the box is never shown, not described, no schematic, etc. just references in the text to the MCU and the ECU and schematics with lines shown with leads off to "the MCU". Someone got confused in the tech writing dept and somehow added some MJ parts to the SJ shop manaul descriptions, eh? No wait, this is an '84 manual, so the MCU wasn't even being used yet was it? The 4.0l was not available yet... I wonder if Tom Benvie would have some interesting take on this little anomoly. Maybe there were some plans in AMC to actaully use the computer system on the SJ's too... Oh well, I can only keep up with one list at a time.... and the grass is cut! fortunately mine is generally just rolling and I don't have to do anything but ride the Sabre around for about 10-15 hours a week... as long as I don't miss a week... but we don't care about rain down here. Unless it is lightning, I mow on... no time to wait for cooperation from nature.... When it stays dry enough, I've got a 8hp chipper/shredder/vac unit and I sweep the whole 6 acres clean several times a year. No leaves to rake/burn and no hay to rake/choke out the grass... and that pile of fresh clippings in the trench out back sure smells sweet from time to time... of course vacuming 6 acres is not for the feint of heart... That's a whole weekend, sun-up to sun-down, both days. Saddlesores are not just for cowboys. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I leave in the a.m. to meet the family tomorrow nite and for my wife's surprize 50th b-day (Sat -at-1300)! Whew! That was cuttin' it close! =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0JeepNut =A0 who is sooooo happy to have Waggie up and running again... "B. COLUCCI" wrote: Greetings JeepNut! JeepNut wrote: THe only thing close to a brain in an FSJ is that Durraspark unit. There are no monsters under your dash. Everything is as it appears. Turn on a switch, and it actually activates that device; no routing the signal through some computer for approval to turn on that device; like on the new luxo-cruisers. I have a friend who is a tech. at a Ford dealer. He was telling me of his recent fight with a new Ford F-350 that would blow fuses when you would adjust the power mirrors. He spent half a day tracing circuits, wires, and relays only to find one of the computers in the truck had gone flaky. I reversed the wires on the alternator plug and the problems were gone... The truck then shut down normally. Oh, I've already done 2....actually I did another 2 today, only 2 left! =A0=A0=A0=A0JeepNut I've done 2 then had 1'' of rain each day sense then; still 4 to go; and 2 of those I have to walk with a commercial walk behind mower. It's all steep hill in that section. That is the part I hate the most. Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post End Transmission........................................ - -- - ---------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:00:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeep Wagoneer Subject: Re: fsj: ok, try this one out... ;) It didn't do anything with Opera.. (But I did try it with MS explorer and it was kinda fun..) - --- john wrote: > If you think the Clifford web site is cool, try a > "mouse over" on > the LIGHTS in the middle of wagoneers.com... :) > > http://www.wagoneers.com > > I'm not sure if I'll get "positive" feedback from > folks that "find" this. > rofl... snicker, snicker.... > > thanx Dan Black for the link and page. I was able > to modify the > script after visiting the VW web page. I've been > fascinated for > some time with the mouse over feature and was able > to make it work > finally. :) I'll be doing more cool stuff with > javascript later. > > john > > - ------------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg > SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the > J3000 > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they > mold... > ------- > ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of > attachments... > ....if thou usest a microsoft operating system or > email program... > > - ------------------------------------------------------------- > ===== John Jacobs - jeep_wag_75-at-yahoo.com 1975 Jeep Wagoneer Royal Oak, Michigan http://members.home.net/jacobsj/index.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:21:53 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: some new pages on wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/trail/BlackRock/ http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/DanStarc-89XJ/ (watch out fer dem seagulls dan!) http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/Aaron-Storm/ http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/Paul-Weitlauf/ (lots of pix, slow to load) - ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/johnsjeeps.jpg SuperDawg, SuperPup (the little wagoneer), and the J3000 ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ------- ...be thou neither a sender nor a receiver of attachments... ...if thou usest a microsoft operating system or email program... ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 00:59:32 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Re: AC parts anyone? How generous. At first thought I could then swap the compressor out and see if it is noisy. Won't matter since my system will be down shortly anyway... If it sounds good then... I wonder if they can pressure test the coil out of the car to see if it holds gas... Surely they can. Then I could try my luck at rebuilding a compressor! The FSM I have does show a pretty fair rebuild how-to for these I think. That could be fun. I kind of get the idea talking to my service guy that if you're replacing the evap coil, then you should get a new expansion valve and dryer/accumulator at the same time. They are too cheap to take a chance at paying for all that labor again to open up the system and replace them later. ... but if I just use your evap coil and compressor... I have to think about a few things, but cheap parts is hard to pass up... Thanks. I'll let you know what's goin' on after I've run this trip to Indy and back... Did you get the rough weather last nite? I hear the bootheel got rough and AR, NW Tenn JeepNut TLynn wrote: > I could let you have all the ac stuff off my 74' Wag(401) for clost to > nothing. I have no idea if any of it is any good though. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JeepNut" > To: "_FSJ List" > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 16:33 > Subject: fsj: AC parts anyone? > > Hello all, > With the Waggie running now, I stupidly thought I might get some A/C > before tomorrow morning.... So I drove over to the local shop I use > for a few things and found out it needs a new compressor which I knew, > but also needs a new condenser/evap unit and of course associated dryer, > R134 converters, etc. He let me take home the UV light and look for > leaks after he put a couple of cans in it. The AC was good for about a > week or two before it went down last time, so it is a real slow leak. I > went out well after dark last night to find nothing under the hood, > along the heat exchanger up front, or in the interior using the UV > light, which he tells me usually means the evap unit in the plenum, so > you can't see the leak until you are well into disassembly. Sounds > reasonable. I expect it is pretty rusty in there after a while.... > Likely why the plenum chamber housing is made from plastic stuff... > Anybody suggest the best place for AC parts? > My shop guy would not even put on the AutoZone compressor I bought. > He begged me to take it back. So now I'm looking at what he thinks will > be $300 vice $90 for the compressor. And 300 for an evap, 60 for a > dryer/receiver, 60 for an E-Valve, some dye, fluid, etc. It'll run > $1200 with labor before it's over. Anybody have one of those shop books > that shows man-hours to replace the AC system? or a good guess? > He is willing to put on parts I bring in though. His son told me > straight up that if I bring the parts, I will spend less. They are just > a mom & pop shop and don't get any discount on the parts they buy he > says... so, he says I can probably do better getting the parts myself. > I don't know. My normal supplier isn't really cheap, but always has > gotten what I needed (Specialty Parts, San Carlos, CA). And they only > carry OEM/Mopar parts like the $300 compressor. Not junk like the > $90.00 one. > After all, I'm only looking for two sides of the triangle, Good & Cheap, > I can spare the Fast leg. > This should work, right? > Thoughts anyone? Ohhh John,... got that Perl script done yet? > > JeepNut > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > '92 Cherokee > ---------------------------------------------------------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 05:27:16 EDT From: DSandelands-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: axle whine on accelleration? Hi All, One of my axles makes a whining noise on acceleration (and has been for the four weeks I've owned the Chero), the noise falls off or disappears when I back off the accelerator. I think its the front axle. It doesn't sound like anything is about to imminently fail. But hey, I don't really know. Anyone have an opinion on the likelihood of imminent failure. The question is of some urgency. I am leaving on a week long road trip to Canyonlands and the surrounding national parks next week. I was out there about four years ago and discovered that many interesting trailheads (for backpacking and hiking) are only accessible by four wheel drive. While I was going to take my '00 Cougar, I am now tempted to take the old Chero. I've always wanted to do some backpacking in the Maze, but I would need to traverse about 70 miles of jeep trail to get to the trailhead. According the Park Service, jeep trails are roads only passable by high clearance four wheel drives. The Maze wasn't in my plans for this trip, but now I am thinking of taking the Chero and tackling it. I would have to go about 1800 -2000 freeway miles and about 70 jeep trail miles. I've only had this beast four weeks and I know its not ready for long road trips, but still I am tempted to risk it. Any opinions? Does anyone know if Moab has a good 4x4 shop that will not rip me off if I have to get repairs. Dave ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #874 *************************