From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Jun 11 16:13:12 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, June 11 2000 Volume 01 : Number 887 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: RE:9000s, springs and 86 J20s fsj: RE: New Member, First 4wd fsj: it's a beauty... fsj: correction, it's only 8,943 miles fsj: rear sliders, running boards and oil leaks... fsj: RE: it's a beauty... Re: fsj: looking at a rare one tomorrow... fsj: Waggie drops dead fsj: New lights Re: fsj: looking at a rare one tomorrow... fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: The things you see .. Re: fsj: RE:9000s, springs and 86 J20s fsj: Re: springs fsj: Re: a toque and other canadianisms fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: springs Re: fsj: The things you see .. Re: fsj: The things you see .. FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:09:19 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE:9000s, springs and 86 J20s At 01:54 PM 6/10/00 -0700, James Blair wrote: >A: When I researched the springs for doing Elmo (I still have those >brand new 4" lift springs I paid $700 for waiting to go on the new >frame) I found there were nearly a dozen different spring rates and >packs for '83 alone! > I got the front spring set built for a snowplow Cherokee, and rear >set for a J10 with camper package. All multileaf for flex appeal! > >John wrote: >with the springs I have now I get very little flex... hey, it man... with that setup it ought to remove any fillings you have left... multileaf ain't gonna help your flex unless you're loaded with bricks... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:03:38 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: fsj: RE: New Member, First 4wd Unless some type of swap has been done, the 77 will have a TH400 and a BW1339 TC. JC Jones :) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Mike Sealey Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 2:07 PM To: Full Size Jeep List Subject: fsj: New Member, First 4wd Hi, I just bought a '77 Wagoneer with the 401 and hope to learn more about it. I actually have previous 401 experience but this one doesn't quite handle like my (long-departed and sorely missed) '73 Ambassador... I'll have plenty of questions later, right now it's Saturday and I wanna play with the new toy... Am I right in my belief that this has a 727 tranny? I haven't gotten under it and looked, but I've heard people insist 727 and others insist TH400. ===== Mike Sealey, San Francisco CA "The Ultimate Rambler - This Ain't No Yuppie Jeep" '77 Wagoneer 401 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:35:41 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: it's a beauty... pictures are ftping right now... http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J20-low-miles-1986/ was appraised at $15K... http://www.traderonline.com/cgi-bin/coll/apps/search/photdisp.html?photo=000 50312101&phoneId=4253567042&ad=19692875&status=no&imgsite=&page=search&pstat=P john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:16:51 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: correction, it's only 8,943 miles If this thing had been a Grand Wagoneer it would be sitting in my driveway right now. Seriously. http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J20-low-miles-1986/ This is one of those very rare opportunities... to see a vintage vehicle in pristine condition... Superdawg wasn't threatened at all... Still prefer my shortwheel base J10 stepside... but if any one out there is seriously considering a J20, this thing is incredible. It was appraised at $15,000 by the local classic car outfit. He's only asking $13,000 for it. FWIW, the guy said he'd look for the original invoice, it was $16K. If anyone back east is thinking about this one I can vouch for it's condition. thanx again Dave Read for point this Jewel out... I had a great time checking it out. The owner, Rick, and I agree that he shouldn't sell it. :) He's only running the ad in the truck trader... he's not highly motivated, and he shouldn't be. He has had a few FSJ's before and has a nice ZJ sitting next to it. http://www.traderonline.com/cgi-bin/coll/apps/search/photdisp.html?photo=000 50312101&phoneId=4253567042&ad=19692875&status=no&imgsite=&page=search&pstat=P gotta run, it's raining (again) and I left the doors of the Jeep open... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:47:40 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: rear sliders, running boards and oil leaks... One thing I learned is that Superdawg has the factory slider rear window... or at least the same window as that '86 has... Did Jeep offer running boards as an option? I also noticed that the old guy mounted the factory fog lamps under the bumper... I could see how he'd drilled into the air dam... I'm sitting here looking at the pictures.... man, does Superdawg look good... rofl... Now, someone find me a Grand Wagoneer 86 and up with 9,000 miles on it like this one. If this thing had been a GW I'd have dropped $13,000 on the guy's lap as soon as the bank could process the home equity loan... :) Notice in the picture of the engine that it's leaking oil!!!! The guy was impressed that it was running at 80 psi oil pressure on the highway... I was thinking out load that he might want to change the spring in the oil pump so it doesn't leak so much... I had one engine set to pump at 60psi and oil was leaking everywhere... What do you guys think on the oil pressure? Should he change the spring or leave it alone? Seeing a "new" 360 makes me even happier to have a 258. :) BTW, I did snag a picture of the vacuum diagram and it's posted in the tech section. I'm not only loving superdawg, but my digital camera too... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:13:45 -0500 From: "The Bear Paw Canoe Co." Subject: fsj: RE: it's a beauty... That IS nice!!!!!!!! why's he (she?) selling? Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:02:27 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: looking at a rare one tomorrow... At 10:14 PM 6/10/00 -0500, JeepNut wrote: >You're flat cruel. >If the picture tells the story she looks absolutely gorgeous... > JeepNut well, if it makes you feel better the 360 is already leaking oil... ;) at less than 9,000 miles... :) and you didn't even mention the pictures I took today: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J20-low-miles-1986/ gotta run, Jim Blair is outside... we're working on the parts xj he has... john john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:34:24 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Waggie drops dead Well, Johns teasing us with the J20 not withstanding... I am still having some bizarre days with the Waggie. As you all may recall, I have been through a full series of things over about a 2 week period. This culminated in my starting the Waggie successfully 2 days in a row so I took a road trip to Indiana. That was 2 weeks ago. The truck started and ran every single day since I left. Except for one. One day I came out of my brother's house and was ready to leave, but the Waggie wasn't. I pulled out the spare ECU, no help whatsoever. Looked for spark, none. Except at the precise moment I turned off the key per my observer. Yellow spark tho. So I was off to the Pep Boys for the last thing in the loop as far as I can think. The pickup coil assy, in the distributor. Picked up a new cap and rotor too. Got back to the house and was about to pull the cap, noticed the coil-cap wire was not too secure on the coil. Hmmm..... pushed it in farther and the truck started immediately. It has run every day since then, about 10 days now, without a hitch. ... until today.... Took the wife out for running errands, etc., got about an hour out from the house and was sitting at a light, started to accelerate, and the truck just flat died. Dead. Immediate. I couldn't believe it. Long story short is that this start, die immeidately. Start run for 20 seconds, die. not start for 15 minutes or so. Start run for 30 seconds, die. not start again for 2 or 3 minutes, then start and die after a few seconds. Then it actually started and we drove on up the road for a mile, then it died again. This is getting fun. And the battery isn't hanging too tough. Not much impressed with my new Sam's Club Champion battery... So I pulled out the AutoZone ECU and put in the NAPA ECU this time around and the damned thing started and ran fine. That's all I touched under the hood. So we picked up tractor parts, went to eat, and pulled up to the restraunt, it dies. Started right away again, pulled into park and went to eat. Came out and it started and ran me the other hour home. Got in the driveway, turn around, backing, up, it dies. I'm thinking it's possessed. Any ideas group? JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:39:19 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: New lights On a happier note.... I had already ordered my new headlights (thank goodness) before today's debacle with the Wagoneer... so I installed them tonight. Actually the XJ needed a new headlight last week, so of course I was happy to donate one from the Waggie... giving me the perfect excuse to order my new IPF kit. I got the M17 bulbs in the IPF fixtures and ain't they cute! And bright as heck! Nice lamps. Thanks for the info John! JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:39:37 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: looking at a rare one tomorrow... At 11:17 PM 6/10/00 -0500, JeepNut wrote: >I just got through browsing all the pics. >I would love to have that puppy... > JeepNut > >> http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J20-low-miles-1986/ A drive to memphis would be a good breakin for it. ;) Borrow $14K. $13k for the truck, $1k to get here and back... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 03:41:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: The things you see .. A: Hey! That's my Canadian block warmer! (AKA: A toque) If I don't wear it when it's even slightly chill out, I end up being unable to think! John wrote: I've wondered the same thing... Sheesh... I don't get it either... maybe it's that knit cap when it's 70 degrees out or something... ;) john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 03:44:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: RE:9000s, springs and 86 J20s A: Nope! More, thinner leaves is the way to go for flex and load capacity! Check out all the spring guys, and they will tell you (I looked at the UhGoLee monoleaf on the J20 at Oly, and it was 1" thick! No flex there, I'll bet!) I wrote: When I researched the springs for doing Elmo (I still have those brand new 4" lift springs I paid $700 for waiting to go on the new frame) I found there were nearly a dozen different spring rates and packs for '83 alone! =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I got the front spring set built for a snowplow Cherokee, and rear set for a J10 with camper package. All multileaf for flex appeal! John wrote: with the springs I have now I get very little flex... hey, it man... with that setup it ought to remove any fillings you have left... multileaf ain't gonna help your flex unless you're loaded with bricks... ;) john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:22:49 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: springs I agree that multiple leaves, thin, will help flex... but you ordered springs for a snow plow and a camper package... that means that you're gonna have multiple THICK leaves, or at least springs with higher ratings. I believe you'll get the lift, but the spring rates are gonna make for a stiff ride and poor flexibility... It's gonna be a rough ride either way... I still think the trick is to get mid-70's vintage wagoneer springs and hand pick the ones with the most arch... and maybe throw in a light duty add-a-leaf at the bottom to give the initial motivation upwards...=20 On old blue I took the second long spring from the rear and put it under the front... this allowed me to use an add-a-leaf without risking my main spring. The spring actually rested under the shackle so my main spring wasn't affected by the add-a-leaf... kind of a poor-man's military wrap. :) I'm not sure I'll get away with this on the J10 though as I think those springs might be longer... we'll find out when I finally crawl underneath and start the "lift". If I fail, I guess I'll run down to benz springs in Seattle and have them make me a set of custom springs with a very supple rate... and if I ever decide to use SuperDawg for hauling I'll add airbags or some other lift support in the back to handle the weight. :) john=20 At 03:44 AM 6/11/00 -0700, James Blair wrote: >A: Nope! More, thinner leaves is the way to go for flex and load >capacity! Check out all the spring guys, and they will tell you (I >looked at the UhGoLee monoleaf on the J20 at Oly, and it was 1" thick! >No flex there, I'll bet!) > >I wrote:=20 >When I researched the springs for doing Elmo (I still have those=20 >brand new 4" lift springs I paid $700 for waiting to go on the new >frame) I found there were nearly a dozen different spring rates and >packs for '83 alone!=20 >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I got the front spring set built for a snowplow >Cherokee, and rear set for a J10 with camper package. All multileaf for >flex appeal! =20 >John wrote:=20 >with the springs I have now I get very little flex... hey, it=20 >man... with that setup it ought to remove any fillings you have left... >multileaf ain't gonna help your flex unless you're loaded with bricks... >;)=20 >john > >************************************* >JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 >http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html=20 >************************************** > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:24:56 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: a toque and other canadianisms so that's what those guys are singing about in that 12 days of canadian christmas song??? so, if it's printable, what's a hoser??? Or do I really want to know??? ;) BTW, I like the Red Green show... john At 03:41 AM 6/11/00 -0700, James Blair wrote: >A: Hey! That's my Canadian block warmer! (AKA: A toque) If I don't wear >it when it's even slightly chill out, I end up being unable to think! > >John wrote: >I've wondered the same thing... Sheesh... I don't get it either... maybe >it's that knit cap when it's 70 degrees out or something... ;) >john > >************************************* >JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 >http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html >************************************** > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:48:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: springs A: I got extra leaves, but thin ones to make up for the increased load and still flex. If I went to J20 springs, I wouldn't have had as much rear flex. (I got to look through their books showing the flex, spring rates and load capacity of all the springs before I chose what I got) John wrote: I agree that multiple leaves, thin, will help flex... but you ordered springs for a snow plow and a camper package... that means that you're gonna have multiple THICK leaves, or at least springs with higher ratings. =A0 I believe you'll get the lift, but the spring rates are gonna make for a stiff ride and poor flexibility... It's gonna be a rough ride either way... I still think the trick is to get mid-70's vintage wagoneer springs and hand pick the ones with the most arch... and maybe throw in a light duty add-a-leaf at the bottom to give the initial motivation upwards... On old blue I took the second long spring from the rear and put it under the front... this allowed me to use an add-a-leaf without risking my main spring. The spring actually rested under the shackle so my main spring wasn't affected by the add-a-leaf... kind of a poor-man's military wrap. :) I'm not sure I'll get away with this on the J10 though as I think those springs might be longer... we'll find out when I finally crawl underneath and start the "lift". If I fail, I guess I'll run down to benz springs in Seattle and have them make me a set of custom springs with a very supple rate... and if I ever decide to use SuperDawg for hauling I'll add airbags or some other lift support in the back to handle the weight. :) john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 13:11:27 -0700 From: Eric Faust Subject: Re: fsj: The things you see .. Maybe he's in town for a job interview with Mr. Gates, just in case things don't work out for him in Nov (fingers crossed!). After all, Al has lots of contacts (and contracts?) in the huge Chinese market! Sorry about the political tone! Y'all make sure ya vote this year! Eric James Blair wrote: > > when you don't have a 35! This is a resend, because I didn't see it come > through yesterday. I was stuck in rush hour traffic and what to my > wondering eyes should appear? A long black limo fleet with cops from > Rainier! (Hmm, sorta sounds like the intro to Rudolph!) > I had 3 motorcyle cops pull up next to me and stare with itchy > fingers as they herded the fleet through the backroads of Seattle, > through the ghetto of Rainier beach (taking care to avoid Columbia city) > (BTW, I meant a 35mm camera, in case you were wondering) And do you > know who passed less than 5 feet from me? Our pal AL! (Funny thing is, > Clinton is the one who will be known throughout history as the > VICE-Prez!) > > ************************************* > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html > ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: The things you see .. PS: I can't vote because I'm not a citizen yet ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #887 *************************