From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jun 13 09:42:02 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, June 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 890 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: What's The Old Fellow Attempting To Pull? Re: fsj: Re: What's The Old Fellow Attempting To Pull? fsj: clunk? Re: fsj: Re: What's The Old Fellow Attempting To Pull? fsj: clunking and lever stuff... Re: fsj: clunking and lever stuff... Re: fsj: clunking and lever stuff... fsj: RE: Which Case Is It? fsj: RE: clunk? Re: fsj: RE: Whats wrong with this hypo? fsj: RE: clunk? fsj: Re: UNIMOG ! and clunking sounds... fsj: Re: RE: clunk? Re: fsj: about lights fsj: lights... fsj: Re: RE: clunk? fsj: 88 GW Engine Compartment Heat FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:46:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: Re: What's The Old Fellow Attempting To Pull? > my np208 has a lever on the floor, not the little pulltab type thing next > to the seat... did they run the 208's with the np219 style levers? Hmm... I thought so! I'll check the parts manual. I thought the 208s had a pulltab type thing very similar to the 219 style. What do others with the 208s have? By lever, do you mean something like a conventional shift cane? > >--> > >-->-bread > > is it lunch time? rofl... Man, I'm always misspelling my name! I have even misspelled my name on papers submitted to journals! I think it is right on my wedding certificate. - -brad (did I get it right this time?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:10:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: What's The Old Fellow Attempting To Pull? On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Brad Seevers wrote: >--> >-->> my np208 has a lever on the floor, not the little pulltab type thing next >-->> to the seat... did they run the 208's with the np219 style levers? >--> >-->Hmm... I thought so! I'll check the parts manual. I thought the 208s had >-->a pulltab type thing very similar to the 219 style. What do >-->others with the 208s have? >--> >-->By lever, do you mean something like a conventional shift cane? yep, but superdawg has a t-5... on the AT's they may have done something else... timex had a 4spd, lever was the same as mine. >--> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->-bread >-->> >-->> is it lunch time? rofl... >--> >-->Man, I'm always misspelling my name! I have even misspelled my name on >-->papers submitted to journals! I think it is right on my wedding certificate. >--> >-->-brad >--> >-->(did I get it right this time?) yep. :) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:13:06 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: clunk? give me some ideas... some hope... :) when I touch the brakes on superdawg I'm getting a clunk... mostly from the left side... whazzup??? guess I'll find out when I take the front wheels off and look... :( john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:30:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: Re: What's The Old Fellow Attempting To Pull? I looked at a few pics of it on your web page. Good point about the t-5/auto differences. I'll check the parts manual tonight. - -brad John writes: > yep, but superdawg has a t-5... on the AT's they may have done > something else... timex had a 4spd, lever was the same as mine. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:16:30 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: clunking and lever stuff... any ideas on superdawg's new found clunk? john On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Brad Seevers wrote: >--> >-->I looked at a few pics of it on your web page. Good point about the t-5/auto >-->differences. I'll check the parts manual tonight. >--> >-->-brad >--> >-->John writes: >--> >-->> yep, but superdawg has a t-5... on the AT's they may have done >-->> something else... timex had a 4spd, lever was the same as mine. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 16:43:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: clunking and lever stuff... You may think this is strange, but check your motor/tranny mounts. I have had them clunk when broken and brakes are applied. - -brad > any ideas on superdawg's new found clunk? > > john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:04:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: clunking and lever stuff... On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Brad Seevers wrote: >--> >-->You may think this is strange, but check your motor/tranny mounts. I have had >-->them clunk when broken and brakes are applied. hmmm... not sure, but it does it with or with it being in gear... but will surely check it out... john >--> >-->-brad >--> >-->> any ideas on superdawg's new found clunk? >-->> >-->> john >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:31:02 EDT From: UtahMlmn-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: RE: Which Case Is It? Brian, John, and all: I believe the NP219 was only offered from '80 to '83, with A/T only, for all models except the J20. The NP 208 was offered for all models from '80 to '87. Joe Schaefer knows this stuff better than I do, maybe check with him? Utah John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:25:47 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: clunk? found the clunk... the front left tire was barely held on by the lugnuts... my guess is the guy that did the front end alignment last week didn't torque the nuts down properly... chewed up my rim... :( they're nice folks, I'm sure they'll cover the damages... john On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, JC Jones wrote: >-->Make sure your front U-Bolts are tight, and that the front bushings are in >-->good shape. Does it make the clunk when you turn the wheel from stop to >-->stop while parked with the engine running? Also, you could drop the front >-->driveshaft and check the endplay in the front diff (and the rear diff for >-->that matter), often noises will travel through the frame or body and you >-->could swear that something is coming from the front when it's really in the >-->rear. If I think of anything else I'll shoot you a line. >--> >-->JC :) >--> >-->P.S. Check the U-Joints too, they can also create "traveling" noises that >-->appear to be coming from somewhere else. >--> >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of >-->> john >-->> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 5:13 PM >-->> To: full size jeep list >-->> Subject: fsj: clunk? >-->> >-->> >-->> give me some ideas... some hope... :) >-->> >-->> when I touch the brakes on superdawg I'm getting a clunk... mostly from >-->> the left side... whazzup??? >-->> >-->> guess I'll find out when I take the front wheels off and look... :( >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com >-->> don't leave life without Jesus, please... >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:46:41 EDT From: DSandelands-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Whats wrong with this hypo? In a message dated 6/12/00 6:48:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jcjones-at-goldencomputerservice.com writes: << I don't know about CA, but in CO. you have to pass emissions for the year of the body or the engine (which ever one is newer). So, if you put a 77 Cherokee engine in a 72 Wagoneer you would have to pass 77 emissions specs. Or if you put a 77 body on a 72 frame with a 72 engine, you would still have to pass the 77 emission specs. I think the CA was the same way when I lived there in 89-91. Now, this is only if they notice or you tell them >> Yeah, CA has the same laws. I am tempted to obtain a title and vin tag to a pre '74 Wag and put the older vin tag on the '77 Chero. Not legal or ethical, but .... Basically, just looking for a reason to keep the Chero. I like the Chero's looks, but I really dislike automatics and converting the Chero appears to be a real hassle, i.e., would need a new trans, transfer case, and realistically a centered rear diff. Didn't know much about 4x4's when I bought the Chero. Just figured the 401 would offer adequate smog legal power and figured I could swap in a manual. Live and learn. Anyway, the Chero's parked for now. May start collecting the parts needed for a conversion, however will also keep my eyes out for another toy, ideally a pre '74, 4 speed manual, V8, 4x4 something or other. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:34:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: clunk? On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, JC Jones wrote: >-->I'm glad you found it before the weel decided to take it's own route... :) >--> >-->JC :) It's a good thing I checked it... to think what could have happened... shudder... In almost thirty years of driving I've never had a problem like this... To think I paid for this experience... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:03:44 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: UNIMOG ! and clunking sounds... On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 jonathan-at-writemail.com wrote: >--> Hi, John, saw this, $2199 , on monday,... got u salivating? even if it's not a diesel. I'd buy it but i'm in RI, and not up for a trek to nevada! >--> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=354553824 >--> tempting... very tempting... If it were a Diesel I'd be calling some friends in Nevada and negotating a place to park it until I could rebuild the xfr case in the little wagoneer and find a towbar for that guppy. :) with 4 days left I'd guess this will go a bit higher in price... ;) btw, where in the heck, er Nevada, is Stage Coach??? I suppose I could look on a map, but it's more fun to ask. ;) Had an unusual experience today with Superdawg... heard a strange clunking sound when hitting the brakes... hmmm... what's that all about??? Just had the front end done last week... he came through with a clean bill of health on the front end... maybe it's the brake calipers I thinks to meself... Ok, I figure I'll get home tonight and pull the tire and see what's up... Got off work, kicked the front tire and noticed that the lugnuts were barely on!!! My rim (alloy slotted wheels from a late 70's vintage Wagoneer) was all messed up, the holes elongated... the lug nuts were loose on the passenger side too, almost finger loose! I tightened all down and I'll be calling the shop that did the front end alignment tomorrow about a new rim... The rear lugnuts were fine. I noticed it this morning and wasn't sure what it was, even had the thing on I-5 doing the legal speed limit on that big overpass that heads over to Boeing... if that tire had come off up on that overpass I'm not sure the concrete barrier would have retained one each full size jeep... shudder... I took the curve a lot slower than usual... it just didn't feel right... I was thinking about how far down it was to those lanes waaaayyy down there... :) In about thirty years of working on cars I've never had a lugnut come loose... Didn't even think to follow up on the front end shop... however it was a new mechanic... my first clue should have been when he went out to get the brown jeep and tried to start the maroon Grand Cherokee right next to it... I'm sitting in the lounge listening to my car alarm being activated and deactivated... look out and see this guy sitting in the wrong jeep trying to start it... rofl... The shop will make it right, they're good people. Honest mistake I'm sure... Now I wonder if I should make them find a 1977 Wagoneer alloy rim... hmmm. If they can't find one to match it I wonder what they'll do? Hey Allan W. you still have those turbine style rims before I raid this spare set I have? ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com/Bible don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:39:04 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: RE: clunk? > It's a good thing I checked it... to think what could have happened... shudder... > > In almost thirty years of driving I've never had a problem like this... > To think I paid for this experience... :) > > john Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes. - --- Oscar Wilde kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:54:11 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: about lights Hi Mr. Riebeling, On this page is a nice explanation of differences in light types... http://www.autobulbdepot.com/bulb_faq.tpl?cart=30436891181021#XTRA?cart=30436891181021 John explains the kit better than anyone here: http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/IPF-lights/IPF-replacement-HEADLIGHTS.html And these guys have a great price on the lamps I just bought!!! http://www.rocky-road.com/ipf.html I clearly didn't do my homework well enough. I paid 37.50 each for the lamps and 72.97 for the White Max Blue Glo H4 55/60watt bulbs. (part #M17) Rocky Road refers to the M17 as the H4 Magic J bulb. The big deal here is getting 80W worth of light out of 55W of power. And 110W for the high beams. This means you get more light without having to install a wiring harness for the lights. The blue glo is simply cosmetic. It's the construction technique of both the bulbs and the lamp fixtures which eek out more output from 55W of power. Hope that helps JeepNut jose riebeling wrote: > i hear in fsj about a IPF ligths with m17 bulb, could you explain me this > kind of ligths used in wagoneers. > thank > jose riebeling > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:04:00 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: lights... I saw a question about the IPF lights in one of the digests... It was something like, "what is an IPF light" or something along the lines of my first reaction to finding out about them... I mean I knew Bosch, and Hella, and had seen PIAA's... but IPF? Come on, whazzthat... :) Anyway, I think the question related to the IPF replacement headlights. I think the JeepNut just got a set of the IPF replacement headlights... They are just like the Hellas or Bosch, only the lens quality is much better. They have superb optics. Light pattern will be the same. However, all the lenses aren't the same... One of the guys with Hella lamps came by and a rock chip had busted one. :( I was gonna put plastic covers over my IPF replacement headlights and the guys at ARB told me not too... And then looking at the difference in lens quality, and the fact they've been on now for two years, and two windshields later... :) I'd say they're probably ok. :) As far as cost, the Candellas are made for Bosch are the most affordable, with Hella next and then IPF. All of them have the same light pattern, european style. I don't think there is a lot of difference, but I could be wrong. I haven't compared them side by side... All I know is it's one of the first mods I make to a Jeep, and even to my Benz's. After having Hellas and Bosch over the years (and in Europe) and then seeing the IPF... I'm drawn to them like a moth to a light... ;) The quality of the glass is what attracts me... guess it has to do with photography and having worked with optics in photolithography... :) ... I love 'em. Can't explain it. But they just look nice. It reminds me of a Zeiss lense... Ever held a Zeiss 135mm lens in your hand and looked through it? Heck with taking pictures, I just want to stare at the lens... ;) I believe Central 4wd carries all of the brands. If you're on a budget, go for the least expensive and get some sort of cover for 'em. The light pattern will be fine. You won't regret not buying the quality, unless you catch a stone without a guard... of course clear silicon works as a fix... ;) All of 'em take the H4 bulbs. IPF/ARB has several different ones available. Doug bought my set of the 85/140(?)'s I had waiting for my lenses when his PIAA Superwhites (??) blew out... he noted the IPF lamps were much brighter. I had a set of IPF lamps in my Benz that were great, low wattage with lots of white light... but they don't carry them any more... :( I've got the marine blue ones in the little wagoneer... nice white light, but not as much intensity... I'm really bummed that they don't carry the bulb I had in my Benz... it was perfect... :( Oh well, I know there is a comparable bulb out there... I'll just wait for someone to share. How long is that sale Bill? ;) When I installed the IPFs and ARB H4 wiring loom in Superdawg they were out of the IPF lamps, so I bought plain old Sylvannia H4 bulbs down at schucks... man, the amp guage lets me know they draw more current... I've got to get some IPF or PIAA lamps... I noticed that Central 4wd has a sale on the PIAA Super whites, anyone tried those? The ad reads they produce more light than comparable bulbs while producing more light... With an 18 year old electrical system I think I like that idea... :) Bill Van Tuyl, what's your take on the difference in the bulbs and prices? You've tested these things out... What's your recommendation? I want the most light, white, with the least amount of current draw... at least until I can upgrade my alternator... :) I've also got other IPF lights on my Jeeps... on the little wagoneer I've got the J-01's (combo fog and "driving" light, the fog light is good, I'd recommend getting the 610's rather), 630s (driving lights, spend a bit more and get the 800 or 900s...) and the ARB backup light (cool setup). On superdawg I've got the 800DDCS driving lights, (the factory fog lights) and soon the ARB backup light... I may also reallocate the 630's to my roll bar. :) I'm also thinking about putting lower wattage bulbs in the 800's... you ought to see my amp gauge peg when I hit the high beams and the 800's... :) Of course it is hard to see it since it's really, really bright outside at that point. :) (I took the covers off last night during a run to the Home Depot and had some fun... ;) I think the whole line of lights that ARB offers under the IPF brand is on their website. I was really drooling over one set of lights they had there... forgot the part number but they're like $700!!! high/low beam, high beam is something like 170W... one of the guys has 'em on his rig and was talking about how much light they put out... :) After wheeling in the rain up in the mountains you understand how important it is to have lights like these. :) On my 85 xj Turbo Diesel I ran hella repl headlights, hella fogs and dick cepek driving lights... it was nice to see things up there in the hills... :) FWIW, I actually increase my insurance coverage to cover my light investment. :) These things ain't cheap... If you get a good quality light like a PIAA or IPF or Hella or Bosch, you might consider talking to your insurance company about additional coverage. It wasn't that much more... I'm working on an article for FSJ magazine on the ARB H4 wiring loom. It'll be a companion article to the series on wiring... Which reminds me I should be working on Wiring 102 for the FSJ... ;) Biff Buford and Billy Bob Joe McWheeler are still standing by the side of the road after experiencing a total black out from turning on too many lights... ;) (he tried to draw over 80 amps from a 34 year old 30amp alternator... connected with old speaker wire... ;) (I won't identify my sources... but I've seen some wild stuff... my only regret is that I wasn't as active in photography way back when I first got into this stuff... ;) later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:19:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: RE: clunk? On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Kim Smith wrote: >-->> It's a good thing I checked it... to think what could have happened... >-->shudder... >-->> >-->> In almost thirty years of driving I've never had a problem like this... >-->> To think I paid for this experience... :) >-->> >-->> john >--> >-->Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes. >-->--- Oscar Wilde or someone else's... ;) >--> >--> >-->kim >-->'80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 >--> >--> >--> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:42:05 -0600 From: "Chuck Scappaticci" Subject: fsj: 88 GW Engine Compartment Heat Hi, I've got an 88 GW with the stock 360 V8 in it. I'm running an Edelbrock 1405 Carb/Manifold and stainless free flow exhaust including the CAT/back. The engine compartment has always been really hot. I've installed the largest "towing package" radiator I could find, removed the air injection to the exhaust manifold (still goes to the catalytic), removed the under hood insulation, moved the ignition coil off of the manifold to the fender, and removed most of the "alien pollution hoses". The jeep still passes the emission test/inspection easily. The engine runs at the Rober Shaw thermostat level of 160 degrees unless its above 80 then creeps up to about 180/190 degrees which is when the Jeep starts to vapor lock. I plan to fix the vapor lock problem this week by replacing my existing electric fuel pump (make unknown) with a Holley pro electric fuel pump, bypassing the mechanical and running metal fuel line along the firewall into the carb. This should avoid the dreaded "heat soaking phenomon" and by angling the fuel line into the bypass ensure only cold fuel hits the carb at start up. My question is what else can I do to improve air flow through the radiator and out of the engine compartment. I'm thinking about removing the evaporative canister (which blocks air flow, soaks up heat and makes the engine really hard to work on), removing the fan clutch (so the fan spins all of the time), putting on an aftermarket fan with more cfm. etc.. Any suggestions? Thanks... ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #890 *************************