From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jun 13 19:39:11 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, June 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 892 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Saga of the Narcoleptic Wagoneer Re: fsj: lugnuts... Re: fsj: Saga of the Narcoleptic Wagoneer Re: fsj: RE: Whats wrong with this hypo? fsj: Re: Lugnuts Re: fsj: lugnuts... Re: fsj: Saga of the Narcoleptic Wagoneer Re: fsj: Re: 1991 Grand Wagoneer Re: fsj: RE: Which Case Is It? Re: fsj: lugnuts... fsj: Parting out '86 Grand wagoneer Re: fsj: lights... Re: fsj: Re: 1991 Grand Wagoneer FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:51:15 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Saga of the Narcoleptic Wagoneer Todays adventure follows: I started it this morning after replacing the coil clip and it ran for about 3 minutes, then died. I walked back over to it and did nothing but switch the connections from the $49.00 AutoZone ECU to the $95.00 NAPA ECU and it fired right up again... I let it run for 3 or 4 more minutes and then I purposely shut it off. I just had to run an ECU test to satisfy my curiosity, so I switched connections from the $95.00 NAPA ECU to the $49.00 AutoZone ECU and it fired right up again... Out the driveway and drove 5 miles and it died. Sat over a period of about 15 minutes while I tried it, still coughs at this point as you let off the key, like it maybe wants to try to start, just as you let off the key. So I switched back to the NAPA ECU. No dice. Messed around with some of the wiring into the backside of the fusebox and harness to the ECU, etc. It started right up at the next try. Drove another 6 miles and it died. This time I never lifted the hood. Under the dash,.... that key thing keeps nagging me... Tried just wiggling wires, no starts, no coughs, still sleeping... Pulled the AC box off the left side, pulled the high-beam lightswitch, and moved the ignition switch around a little. Cranked it over and it tried to start. Messed around with positioning the switch. Started and I threw the tools together and headed for the barn. It died 1500 feet later. Again played with the ignition switch positioning slightly moving it, within 3 minutes the truck had stared again. It drove me the 11 miles back home and died as I started slowing for the driveway. Fortunately it's downhill from the road..... I'm just getting to the point of running out of things to try. Tonight's exercise.... new stator assy in the distributor. Maybe the trigger to the ECU isn't happening regularly.... I am really thinking electrical, as it doesn't stumble or cough. When it drops, it's dead. Immediately. Unless it restarts right away (rarely). It usually has to sit at least a few minutes between tries. As always, entertaining antecdotes and brilliant ideas are encouraged. JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:00:30 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: lugnuts... I dunno, how bigga feller are ya? I use a 1/2 ratchet/socket with a short extension to put mine on and off. 'cept for the torquin'. JeepNut john wrote: > thanx... > > btw, is 75lbs about the same as just before I twist the stud > off by standing on the tire iron? ;) > > here's some pix of the lugnuts, and Superdawg with the "Turtle" Xj. > http://www.wagoneers.com/83Stepside/tires/LugNuts/ (see elongated...) > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/superdawg-and-the-TURTLE-XJ.jpg > > john > > At 06:33 PM 6/13/00 -0500, JeepNut wrote: > >Hi John, > > The 84-88 FSM for Grand Wagoneer/Truck calls it: > >Wheel Retaining Nuts > > 75 ftlb for the AMC/Jeep > > 120 ftlb for Model 60 > > JeepNut > > > >john wrote: > > > >> two questions: > >> > >> 1) what's the lug nut torque setting supposed to be for a J10? > >> 2) if a couple of the holes are elongated, should I replace the > >> rim? > >> > >> I called the shop, they claim they didn't remove the front tires > >> when they did the front end alignment... I didn't watch 'em, but > >> it didn't take 'em long to do it, and it there wasn't any reason > >> for them to... so I'm perplexed why or how they worked loose...guess > >> I'll need to check 'em more often... > >> > >> john > >> ------------------------------------------------------ > >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > > >-- > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >'87 Street Comanche #24/100 > >'88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > >'92 Cherokee > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ------------------------------------------------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:06:47 EDT From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Saga of the Narcoleptic Wagoneer In a message dated 6/13/00 7:52:13 PM Central Daylight Time, jeepnut-at-bellsouth.net writes: > Todays adventure follows: > I started it this morning after replacing the coil clip and it ran > for about 3 minutes, then died. > I walked back over to it and did nothing but switch the connections from > the $49.00 AutoZone ECU to the $95.00 NAPA ECU and it fired right up > again... > I let it run for 3 or 4 more minutes and then I purposely shut it > off. I just had to run an ECU test to satisfy my curiosity, so I > switched connections from the $95.00 NAPA ECU to the $49.00 AutoZone ECU > and it fired right up again... > Out the driveway and drove 5 miles and it died. Sat over a period > of about 15 minutes while I tried it, still coughs at this point as you > let off the key, like it maybe wants to try to start, just as you let > off the key. So I switched back to the NAPA ECU. No dice. Messed > around with some of the wiring into the backside of the fusebox and > harness to the ECU, etc. It started right up at the next try. > Drove another 6 miles and it died. This time I never lifted the > hood. Under the dash,.... that key thing keeps nagging me... Tried > just wiggling wires, no starts, no coughs, still sleeping... Pulled the > AC box off the left side, pulled the high-beam lightswitch, and moved > the ignition switch around a little. Cranked it over and it tried to > start. Messed around with positioning the switch. Started and I threw > the tools together and headed for the barn. It died 1500 feet later. > Again played with the ignition switch positioning slightly moving > it, within 3 minutes the truck had stared again. It drove me the 11 > miles back home and died as I started slowing for the driveway. > Fortunately it's downhill from the road..... > I'm just getting to the point of running out of things to try. > Tonight's exercise.... new stator assy in the distributor. Maybe > the trigger to the ECU isn't happening regularly.... > I am really thinking electrical, as it doesn't stumble or cough. > When it drops, it's dead. Immediately. Unless it restarts right away > (rarely). It usually has to sit at least a few minutes between tries. > As always, entertaining antecdotes and brilliant ideas are > encouraged. > JeepNut > My Waggie ran like that when I was having fuel trouble. My 360 gulps a lot of fuel so when you interrupt that flow, it shuts down real fast. - --Vince '81 Wag ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:09:48 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Whats wrong with this hypo? Just curious as I haven't gotten into things this deep, but how would they know if the engine was a '77 or '55? Do they really "look up numbers" for every stinkin car in California??? And what about changing VIN numbers? What do you do, just tell them you just bought a '74 and use the VIN from a '74 on the truck? Then it's registered forever more as a '74? JeepNut DSandelands-at-aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/12/00 6:48:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > jcjones-at-goldencomputerservice.com writes: > > << I don't know about CA, but in CO. you have to pass emissions for the year > of the body or the engine (which ever one is newer). So, if you put a 77 > Cherokee engine in a 72 Wagoneer you would have to pass 77 emissions specs. > Or if you put a 77 body on a 72 frame with a 72 engine, you would still have > to pass the 77 emission specs. I think the CA was the same way when I lived > there in 89-91. Now, this is only if they notice or you tell them >> > > Yeah, CA has the same laws. I am tempted to obtain a title and vin tag > to a pre '74 Wag and put the older vin tag on the '77 Chero. Not legal or > ethical, but .... Basically, just looking for a reason to keep the Chero. > I like the Chero's looks, but I really dislike automatics and converting the > Chero appears to be a real hassle, i.e., would need a new trans, transfer > case, and realistically a centered rear diff. Didn't know much about 4x4's > when I bought the Chero. Just figured the 401 would offer adequate smog > legal power and figured I could swap in a manual. Live and learn. Anyway, the > Chero's parked for now. May start collecting the parts needed for a > conversion, however will also keep my eyes out for another toy, ideally a pre > '74, 4 speed manual, V8, 4x4 something or other. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:12:03 EDT From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Lugnuts In a message dated 6/13/00 5:25:12 PM Central Daylight Time, john-at-virtual-cafe.com writes: > two questions: > > 1) what's the lug nut torque setting supposed to be for a J10? > 2) if a couple of the holes are elongated, should I replace the > rim? > > I called the shop, they claim they didn't remove the front tires > when they did the front end alignment... I didn't watch 'em, but > it didn't take 'em long to do it, and it there wasn't any reason > for them to... so I'm perplexed why or how they worked loose...guess > I'll need to check 'em more often... > > john John: When I got new tires for Rez Runner, they torqued all the lugs to 75 ft. lb. As far as the elongated holes, unless you want them to replace the rims......I would go ahead an torque the nuts then drive it for a week or so and then check them again. Otherwise, it is probably a good excuse for new wheels. How receptive is your wife lately? Or should I ask, how is the work on the garage going? ;-) - --Vince ''81 Wag (Not a grand but just as dangerous!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:23:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: lugnuts... A: 1) I recall 55 ft lbs, but I may be wrong. (It's been 10 years since I worked in a tire store) I do mine by feel, and lube them each time! 2) Yes! Either chuck it, or if it's rare, get it welded and fixed (but it cost$!) Who did the tire last? John wrote: 1) what's the lug nut torque setting supposed to be for a J10? 2) if a couple of the holes are elongated, should I replace the =A0 rim? I called the shop, they claim they didn't remove the front tires when they did the front end alignment... I didn't watch 'em, but it didn't take 'em long to do it, and it there wasn't any reason for them to... so I'm perplexed why or how they worked loose...guess I'll need to check 'em more often... john - ----- ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:57:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Saga of the Narcoleptic Wagoneer A: Try hooking up either a voltmeter, or 12v light socket to the + side of the coil, and turn on the key. (make sure you have a ground too! DUH! I use a sidelight socket with a push in bulb for testing. Put on long enough wire for it to come through the hood in front of the windshield so you can see it, and not short out!) Go for a drive and see if the light goes out when the truck quits (It should get brighter while you are cranking BTW) If it's electrical (not the box, but power coming in) this will tell you if the ignition switch needs changing. If the light stays on, swap your dist. Have you made sure the dist connector is clean? JeepNut wrote: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Todays adventure follows: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I started it this morning after replacing the coil clip and it ran for about 3 minutes, then died. =A0=A0=A0=A0I walked back over to it and did nothing but switch the connections from the $49.00 AutoZone ECU to the $95.00 NAPA ECU and it fired right up again... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I let it run for 3 or 4 more minutes and then I purposely shut it off. I just had to run an ECU test to satisfy my curiosity, so I switched connections from the $95.00 NAPA ECU to the $49.00 AutoZone ECU and it fired right up again... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Out the driveway and drove 5 miles and it died. Sat over a period of about 15 minutes while I tried it, still coughs at this point as you let off the key, like it maybe wants to try to start, just as you let off the key. So I switched back to the NAPA ECU. No dice. Messed around with some of the wiring into the backside of the fusebox and harness to the ECU, etc. It started right up at the next try. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Drove another 6 miles and it died. This time I never lifted the hood. Under the dash,.... that key thing keeps nagging me... Tried just wiggling wires, no starts, no coughs, still sleeping... Pulled the AC box off the left side, pulled the high-beam lightswitch, and moved the ignition switch around a little. Cranked it over and it tried to start. Messed around with positioning the switch. Started and I threw the tools together and headed for the barn. It died 1500 feet later. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Again played with the ignition switch positioning slightly moving it, within 3 minutes the truck had stared again. It drove me the 11 miles back home and died as I started slowing for the driveway. Fortunately it's downhill from the road..... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I'm just getting to the point of running out of things to try. =A0 =A0 Tonight's exercise.... new stator assy in the distributor. Maybe =A0=A0=A0=A0the trigger to the ECU isn't happening regularly.... =A0 =A0 I am really thinking electrical, as it doesn't stumble or cough. =A0=A0=A0=A0When it drops, it's dead. Immediately. Unless it restarts right away (rarely). It usually has to sit at least a few minutes between tries. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0As always, entertaining antecdotes and brilliant ideas are encouraged. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0JeepNut ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:59:19 -0500 From: paul stelzig Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1991 Grand Wagoneer I rolled mine on to it's side, but I've got a sprung over front end for about 6" lift. And I still had to tilt to at least 45 degrees before it went over. john wrote: > > > FWIW, an FSJ is well balanced, handles well considering it's size and > is very, very stable, on or off road. I've seen one picture of one > on it's side... know of a couple others that have fallen off of mountains > or cliffs... and protected the occupants or drove away. :) > > An XJ will tip easier than an FSJ. Where is this 91? how much? I'd > give it thought it if was up here near Seattle... ;) > > john > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com > don't leave life without Jesus, please... > Snohomish, Washington USA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:11:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Which Case Is It? A: The NP219 was '80/'81 only (although a few have shown up in '82s, the manual says '80-'81) The NP205 (I think that's the one) was a full time, with hubs, and had hi/lo like a NP219. I checked one out in a '79 Dodge 3/4 ton at the Monroe fest> Utah John wrote: Brian, John, and all: I believe the NP219 was only offered from '80 to '83, with A/T only, for all models except the J20. The NP 208 was offered for all models from '80 to '87. Joe Schaefer knows this stuff better than I do, maybe check with him? Utah John ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:14:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: lugnuts... On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 UrbFarmer-at-aol.com wrote: >-->John: >-->When I got new tires for Rez Runner, they torqued all the lugs to 75 ft. lb. >-->As far as the elongated holes, unless you want them to replace the >-->rims......I would go ahead an torque the nuts then drive it for a week or so >-->and then check them again. Otherwise, it is probably a good excuse for new >-->wheels. How receptive is your wife lately? Or should I ask, how is the work I have two or three spare sets of FSJ type wheels... just hate to break up a spare set... ;) >-->on the garage going? stalled in a major way... setbacks basically make it impossible... that and the wife's garden areas... ;) >-->;-) >-->--Vince >-->''81 Wag (Not a grand but just as dangerous!) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:31:12 -0500 From: paul stelzig Subject: fsj: Parting out '86 Grand wagoneer I'm parting out a 86 GW the only pieces left are interior trim, dash, factory rims and maybe seats. the color is maroon, and its in Minnesota. Parts would be cheep any thing left over is going to the crusher. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:23:19 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: lights... On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, JeepNut wrote: >-->Hi John, >-->I sent the questioner some links to browse, and I recalled reading this on the AutoBulbDepot.com >-->website... yeah, cool site, I was looking at it. I like the technical detail it provides! I love seeing data that shows the degrees in Kelvin... ;) >--> >-->"Q. What are High Intensity White or Super White bulbs? Does Super White make my lamps brighter? >-->A. Autobulbdepot.com offers head lamp bulb upgrades with a "High Intensity White" or "Super White" >-->coating. This coating is similar in principle to Ion Crystal* but uses a pale bluish tint to the glass >-->to filter out of the yellow spectrum light resulting in a standard halogen bulb producing a light that >-->simulates the ultra white color temperature of H.I.D. lamps. This tint does not make the bulbs >-->brighter on its own but makes the light output whiter. To also offer brighter output, most of these >-->bulbs are either higher wattage or they use XTRA* technology. PIAA bulbs that incorporate BOTH Super >-->White AND XTRA* technology are called Platinum series bulbs." >--> >-->...and about the XTRA technology they describe this... >--> >-->"Commonly referred to as XTRA* bulbs, Super J Beams, Hyper Bulbs or even Xenon bulbs by the different >-->lamp manufacturers these bulbs use more tightly wound spiral filament made of finer wire in a precise >-->mixture of halogen and xenon gasses that is under much higher pressure than a normal halogen bulb. The >-->presense of xenon gas under high pressure provides an increased rate of halogen regeneration resulting >-->in a very intense light. Depending on the design, a 55 watt version of this type of bulb can produce >-->the equivalent output to an 85 watt or higher standard halogen bulb but without the amperage draw and >-->heat of the standard 85 watt bulb. These new high output bulbs are becoming increasingly popular >-->because they offer amazing output at relatively low amperage draws and heat generation." >--> >--> THAT sounds like the M17 "Magic" bulbs right? It does, and the IPF Super J bulb too... I'd have to compare the specs from ARB's site, if they have it up there... All the data in the packing is in japanese... I think... ;) The other links you provided might have the specs on the IPF lights... there are several distributors out there... >--> I get from the reading that your M17's ought to be brighter than a PIAA SuperWhite. that's what I think Doug said, he got my pair of 85/140's and said they were brighter, I can't recall if he had SuperWhite's or not. He's on the xj list if he replies I'll share it with this list also. >-->Reflector housing inequalities not taken into consideration of course... I suspect that would be >-->negligible comparing the PIAA to the IPF. I agree, you and I probably aren't gonna notice the difference between a $35 and a $60 light housing... except maybe under perfect light conditions. ;) Any of these things are so much of an improvement over stock or off-the-shelf "sealed" lamps that you won't care. :) I think Bill VanTuyl told me he couldn't tell the difference in the Candellas and the Hellas... The only difference you can really notice is the quality of the lens and reflector, but once you put a bulb in it and turn it on you're so impressed by the light output over stock, you really don't notice the difference in the quality. My guess is there is a difference, and that the quality difference will make a difference as things age. I remember that my Bosch lamps held up pretty good over time, but the reflector did sort of tarnish... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:36:18 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1991 Grand Wagoneer On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, paul stelzig wrote: >-->I rolled mine on to it's side, but I've got a sprung over front end for about >-->6" lift. And I still had to tilt to at least 45 degrees before it went over. any pictures? didn't go turtle though... will have to create a special section. :) john >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->> >-->> >-->> FWIW, an FSJ is well balanced, handles well considering it's size and >-->> is very, very stable, on or off road. I've seen one picture of one >-->> on it's side... know of a couple others that have fallen off of mountains >-->> or cliffs... and protected the occupants or drove away. :) >-->> >-->> An XJ will tip easier than an FSJ. Where is this 91? how much? I'd >-->> give it thought it if was up here near Seattle... ;) >-->> >-->> john >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com >-->> don't leave life without Jesus, please... >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #892 *************************