From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Aug 12 22:51:15 2011
From: fsj-digest <owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net>
fsj-digest Saturday, August 13 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3765
Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps
Brian Colucci <ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net>
Digest Coordinator
Contents:
fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3764
fsj: Eastern sierra trip, with some fsj content
fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 09:08:04 -0600
From: Troy Phagan <tsp-at-crptruck.com>
Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3764
On 8/12/2011 8:57 AM, fsj-digest wrote:
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 07:56:44 -0700
> From: Michel Balea<michelbalea-at-gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: fsj: amc v8 dual exhaust
>
> I do not see the dual exhaust in the 74 TSM.
Yes, I wondered about that; I figure the dual exhaust was a Javelin /
Matador or other car option... Perhaps a different cam for the cars vs.
truck or other equipment differences could be a factor as well. Maybe
even a police cruiser package or something...? Ah well, was just curious
about the numbers.
- --
- -Troy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 08:08:10 -0700
From: Michel Balea <michelbalea-at-gmail.com>
Subject: fsj: Eastern sierra trip, with some fsj content
Left SF to Mammoth lakes going over Sonora Pass at 9624', did not make it in
one motion after the 7000' mark, because of altitude I had to stop a few
times due to overheating.
Explored around Bridgeport and Mono Lake.
Went over to "Casa Diablo" north of Bishop and took the silver canyon rd to
the White Mountain Research lab at 12242', even the bike did not make it....
I had to hitch a ride for the last 6 miles from 11600'.
Back thru Wyman canyon, Big Pine and Mammoth lakes area, with an exploration
of Laurel Lake area. There is plenty of snow left for mid August.
Drove back thru Tioga pass at 9943', and the engine did better after
increasing the timing from 12 to 20, and running no vacuum advance.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/reorder?uname=jeepmr&aid=5639764994699292545
This is not edited, so enjoy the views.
Cheers
Michel
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:40:50 -0600
From: "wallacem7-at-aol.com"<wallacem7-at-aol.com>
Subject: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
T case out of oil eh? Been there, done that. Three times. Once on the Wag
and twice on the Dakota. Check the t case seals...that oil had to go
somewhere and I will bet that the t case seals are bad. Also listen for
chain slap in the case. That is a tell that the chain is stretched. I have
three stretched t case chains serving as decoration on the peg board. T
cases are easy to rebuild, but they use silly metric fasteners.
Driveshaft angle... the pads are welded to the axle. The actual differential
angle for a front driveshaft with a double cardan joint is that the
driveshaft should come out of the differential straight. So a heavily lifted
rig would have a bigger angle than a stock one. The rationale is that Spicer
u joints at an angle other than zero take two lined up correctly to balance.
Think rear driveshaft. Now the double cardan balances itself so the only way
the third u joint can balance is if it has no angle at all.
Mark
81 Wag
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 10:47:00 -0700
From: Jim Blair <carnuck1-at-msn.com>
Subject: RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
I've seen a few driveshafts with 4 ujoints in them. A double cardan at either
end. Not sure how they work, but the concept was interesting.
> From: wallacem7-at-aol.com
> To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net
> Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:40:50 -0600
> Subject: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
>
> T case out of oil eh? Been there, done that. Three times. Once on the Wag
> and twice on the Dakota. Check the t case seals...that oil had to go
> somewhere and I will bet that the t case seals are bad. Also listen for
> chain slap in the case. That is a tell that the chain is stretched. I have
> three stretched t case chains serving as decoration on the peg board. T
> cases are easy to rebuild, but they use silly metric fasteners.
>
> Driveshaft angle... the pads are welded to the axle. The actual differential
> angle for a front driveshaft with a double cardan joint is that the
> driveshaft should come out of the differential straight. So a heavily lifted
> rig would have a bigger angle than a stock one. The rationale is that Spicer
> u joints at an angle other than zero take two lined up correctly to balance.
> Think rear driveshaft. Now the double cardan balances itself so the only way
> the third u joint can balance is if it has no angle at all.
>
> Mark
> 81 Wag
>
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 10:55:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Greg Loxtercamp <greglox-at-yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
On my lifted wag, I added caster wedges between the front axle's mount pad and
the spring so that the 3rd, single front u-joint had a nearly 0 degree angle.
But, that rotation of the axle (pinion rotated up) messed up my king pin
angle and it wouldn't track straight...it wandered. The solution, if I had
wanted to fix it, would have been to get the center diff (or axle tubes)
rotated or a double-double cardan jointed front drive shaft (that Jim spoke
of).
Greg
________________________________
From: Jim Blair
<carnuck1-at-msn.com>
To: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-at-digest.net
Sent: Friday, August
12, 2011 12:47 PM
Subject: RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
I've seen a few driveshafts with 4 ujoints in them. A double cardan at either
end. Not sure how they work, but the concept was interesting.
> From:
wallacem7-at-aol.com
> To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net
> Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011
11:40:50 -0600
> Subject: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
>
> T
case out of oil eh? Been there, done that. Three times. Once on the Wag
> and
twice on the Dakota. Check the t case seals...that oil had to go
> somewhere
and I will bet that the t case seals are bad. Also listen for
> chain slap in
the case. That is a tell that the chain is stretched. I have
> three stretched
t case chains serving as decoration on the peg board. T
> cases are easy to
rebuild, but they use silly metric fasteners.
>
> Driveshaft angle... the pads
are welded to the axle. The actual differential
> angle for a front driveshaft
with a double cardan joint is that the
> driveshaft should come out of the
differential straight. So a heavily lifted
> rig would have a bigger angle
than a stock one. The rationale is that Spicer
> u joints at an angle other
than zero take two lined up correctly to balance.
> Think rear driveshaft. Now
the double cardan balances itself so the only way
> the third u joint can
balance is if it has no angle at all.
>
> Mark
> 81 Wag
>
> Connected by DROID
on Verizon Wireless
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 10:56:11 -0700
From: Michel Balea <michelbalea-at-gmail.com>
Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
Same here for the dry TC, w the 229. It was not dry dry, but I had to add
1.5Q after I bought it 10 years ago. The driveshaft seals front and rear,
but the tricky part is a felt seal that goes over the spline. It is a $2
part from the dealership only. Probably time to pack a few sets before they
are not carried.
Cheers
Michel
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:40 AM, wallacem7-at-aol.com <wallacem7-at-aol.com>wrote:
> T case out of oil eh? Been there, done that. Three times. Once on the Wag
> and twice on the Dakota. Check the t case seals...that oil had to go
> somewhere and I will bet that the t case seals are bad. Also listen for
> chain slap in the case. That is a tell that the chain is stretched. I have
> three stretched t case chains serving as decoration on the peg board. T
> cases are easy to rebuild, but they use silly metric fasteners.
>
> Driveshaft angle... the pads are welded to the axle. The actual
> differential
> angle for a front driveshaft with a double cardan joint is that the
> driveshaft should come out of the differential straight. So a heavily
> lifted
> rig would have a bigger angle than a stock one. The rationale is that
> Spicer
> u joints at an angle other than zero take two lined up correctly to
> balance.
> Think rear driveshaft. Now the double cardan balances itself so the only
> way
> the third u joint can balance is if it has no angle at all.
>
> Mark
> 81 Wag
>
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 21:33:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Wallace <wallacem7-at-aol.com>
Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
Landon -
Do you have the old Spicer 20 T-Case? I think it went with manual transmission
until the end of the 70's. It is a gear driven cast iron case. It should also
be free of silly metric fasteners. The NP chain driven aluminum cases are
light enough that I don't even use a jack to remove them. I think there is
still decent aftermarket support on that case.
The seal that goes over the spline I have been able to find from 4x4 specific
vendors. It seems that NP kept the spline the same for their T-Cases for a lot
of applications because it looks like the exact same part for my Daily Driver
Dodge Dakota (1994 vintage). 4 Wheel Parts warehouse should have it. In a
pinch I have re-used them and been leak free.
I have made a tool that is useful (I have one for the Wag and one for the
Dakota) is a piece of metal that bolts onto the output shafts of the t-case
and rests against the ground (or the workbench) so that you can get a wrench
on the T-case nuts which if memory serves is a 1 1/4 on the NP cases. (it is
actually probably Metric, but I don't have metrics that big). If you want a
picture of it I can do that. My T-case is even on the workbench so I can show
how it works.
Mark Wallace
81 Wag
- -----Original Message-----
From: Tesar Landon-R16884 <r16884-at-freescale.com>
To: Michel Balea <michelbalea-at-gmail.com>; wallacem7 <wallacem7-at-aol.com>
Cc: fsj-digest <fsj-digest-at-digest.net>
Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2011 1:17 pm
Subject: RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
Yes, a puddle of gear lube on the driveway greeted me yesterday when I got
home.
It's oozing from the front gearshaft seal. There are good pictures on the web
and the shop manual, so may try this myself or may get a used one, or both...
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Michel
Balea
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:56 PM
To: wallacem7-at-aol.com
Cc: fsj-digest-at-digest.net
Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
Same here for the dry TC, w the 229. It was not dry dry, but I had to add 1.5Q
after I bought it 10 years ago. The driveshaft seals front and rear, but the
tricky part is a felt seal that goes over the spline. It is a $2 part from the
dealership only. Probably time to pack a few sets before they are not
carried.
Cheers
Michel
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:40 AM, wallacem7-at-aol.com <wallacem7-at-aol.com>wrote:
> T case out of oil eh? Been there, done that. Three times. Once on the
> Wag and twice on the Dakota. Check the t case seals...that oil had to
> go somewhere and I will bet that the t case seals are bad. Also listen
> for chain slap in the case. That is a tell that the chain is
> stretched. I have three stretched t case chains serving as decoration
> on the peg board. T cases are easy to rebuild, but they use silly metric
fasteners.
>
> Driveshaft angle... the pads are welded to the axle. The actual
> differential angle for a front driveshaft with a double cardan joint
> is that the driveshaft should come out of the differential straight.
> So a heavily lifted rig would have a bigger angle than a stock one.
> The rationale is that Spicer u joints at an angle other than zero take
> two lined up correctly to balance.
> Think rear driveshaft. Now the double cardan balances itself so the
> only way the third u joint can balance is if it has no angle at all.
>
> Mark
> 81 Wag
>
> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 19:20:00 -0700
From: Jim Blair <carnuck-at-hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
The other option is a GM or Ford front diff ( depending which side front drop
you have) that is already SOA with the correct driveshaft angle if you have a
WT or pickup (only slightly wider)
> Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 10:55:00 -0700
> From: greglox-at-yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
> To: fsj-at-digest.net
>
> On my lifted wag, I added caster wedges between the front axle's mount pad
and
> the spring so that the 3rd, single front u-joint had a nearly 0 degree
angle.
> But, that rotation of the axle (pinion rotated up) messed up my king pin
> angle and it wouldn't track straight...it wandered. The solution, if I had
> wanted to fix it, would have been to get the center diff (or axle tubes)
> rotated or a double-double cardan jointed front drive shaft (that Jim spoke
> of).
>
> Greg
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jim Blair
> <carnuck1-at-msn.com>
> To: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-at-digest.net
> Sent: Friday, August
> 12, 2011 12:47 PM
> Subject: RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
> I've seen a few driveshafts with 4 ujoints in them. A double cardan at
either
> end. Not sure how they work, but the concept was interesting.
>
> > From:
> wallacem7-at-aol.com
> > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net
> > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011
> 11:40:50 -0600
> > Subject: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
> >
> > T
> case out of oil eh? Been there, done that. Three times. Once on the Wag
> > and
> twice on the Dakota. Check the t case seals...that oil had to go
> > somewhere
> and I will bet that the t case seals are bad. Also listen for
> > chain slap in
> the case. That is a tell that the chain is stretched. I have
> > three stretched
> t case chains serving as decoration on the peg board. T
> > cases are easy to
> rebuild, but they use silly metric fasteners.
> >
> > Driveshaft angle... the pads
> are welded to the axle. The actual differential
> > angle for a front driveshaft
> with a double cardan joint is that the
> > driveshaft should come out of the
> differential straight. So a heavily lifted
> > rig would have a bigger angle
> than a stock one. The rationale is that Spicer
> > u joints at an angle other
> than zero take two lined up correctly to balance.
> > Think rear driveshaft. Now
> the double cardan balances itself so the only way
> > the third u joint can
> balance is if it has no angle at all.
> >
> > Mark
> > 81 Wag
> >
> > Connected by DROID
> on Verizon Wireless
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 21:26:42 -0500
From: Kim Tesar <ltesar3421-at-sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
It is the Spicer 20. I'm going to look around and pick a direction.
The cause is the loose front driveshaft spline that wobbles around in
4 Hi.
- - Landon
//////////
On Aug 12, 2011, at 8:33 PM, Mark Wallace wrote:
> Landon -
>
> Do you have the old Spicer 20 T-Case? I think it went with manual
> transmission
> until the end of the 70's. It is a gear driven cast iron case. It
> should also
> be free of silly metric fasteners. The NP chain driven aluminum
> cases are
> light enough that I don't even use a jack to remove them. I think
> there is
> still decent aftermarket support on that case.
>
> The seal that goes over the spline I have been able to find from
> 4x4 specific
> vendors. It seems that NP kept the spline the same for their T-
> Cases for a lot
> of applications because it looks like the exact same part for my
> Daily Driver
> Dodge Dakota (1994 vintage). 4 Wheel Parts warehouse should have
> it. In a
> pinch I have re-used them and been leak free.
>
> I have made a tool that is useful (I have one for the Wag and one
> for the
> Dakota) is a piece of metal that bolts onto the output shafts of
> the t-case
> and rests against the ground (or the workbench) so that you can get
> a wrench
> on the T-case nuts which if memory serves is a 1 1/4 on the NP
> cases. (it is
> actually probably Metric, but I don't have metrics that big). If
> you want a
> picture of it I can do that. My T-case is even on the workbench so
> I can show
> how it works.
>
> Mark Wallace
> 81 Wag
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tesar Landon-R16884 <r16884-at-freescale.com>
> To: Michel Balea <michelbalea-at-gmail.com>; wallacem7
> <wallacem7-at-aol.com>
> Cc: fsj-digest <fsj-digest-at-digest.net>
> Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2011 1:17 pm
> Subject: RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
>
>
> Yes, a puddle of gear lube on the driveway greeted me yesterday
> when I got
> home.
> It's oozing from the front gearshaft seal. There are good pictures
> on the web
> and the shop manual, so may try this myself or may get a used one,
> or both...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf
> Of Michel
> Balea
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:56 PM
> To: wallacem7-at-aol.com
> Cc: fsj-digest-at-digest.net
> Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
>
> Same here for the dry TC, w the 229. It was not dry dry, but I had
> to add 1.5Q
> after I bought it 10 years ago. The driveshaft seals front and
> rear, but the
> tricky part is a felt seal that goes over the spline. It is a $2
> part from the
> dealership only. Probably time to pack a few sets before they are not
> carried.
>
> Cheers
>
> Michel
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:40 AM, wallacem7-at-aol.com
> <wallacem7-at-aol.com>wrote:
>
>> T case out of oil eh? Been there, done that. Three times. Once on the
>> Wag and twice on the Dakota. Check the t case seals...that oil had to
>> go somewhere and I will bet that the t case seals are bad. Also
>> listen
>> for chain slap in the case. That is a tell that the chain is
>> stretched. I have three stretched t case chains serving as decoration
>> on the peg board. T cases are easy to rebuild, but they use silly
>> metric
> fasteners.
>>
>> Driveshaft angle... the pads are welded to the axle. The actual
>> differential angle for a front driveshaft with a double cardan joint
>> is that the driveshaft should come out of the differential straight.
>> So a heavily lifted rig would have a bigger angle than a stock one.
>> The rationale is that Spicer u joints at an angle other than zero
>> take
>> two lined up correctly to balance.
>> Think rear driveshaft. Now the double cardan balances itself so the
>> only way the third u joint can balance is if it has no angle at all.
>>
>> Mark
>> 81 Wag
>>
>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:45:50 -0700
From: Jim Blair <carnuck-at-hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
Re-splining is less than $100 in most cases.
It is the Spicer 20. I'm going to look around and pick a direction.
The cause is the loose front driveshaft spline that wobbles around in
4 Hi.
- - Landon
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 00:08:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Wallace <wallacem7-at-aol.com>
Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
Is it possible that it will just tighten up? I have seen the yoke loose on
these things and when you get the big wrench out and some locktite you are
back in business. Or is it the actual driveshaft that has a bad spline...like
my front driveshaft which has lived on various workbench second shelves since
Clinton was in office. Mine has a bad spline, a word double cardan and is at
least an inch too short since I lifted the Wag. When I have some bucks burning
a hole in my pocket Santa Fe Auto Machine will make me a new one for $200.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Kim Tesar <ltesar3421-at-sbcglobal.net>
To: Mark Wallace <wallacem7-at-aol.com>
Cc: r16884 <r16884-at-freescale.com>; michelbalea <michelbalea-at-gmail.com>;
fsj-digest <fsj-digest-at-digest.net>
Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2011 8:29 pm
Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
It is the Spicer 20. I'm going to look around and pick a direction.
The cause is the loose front driveshaft spline that wobbles around in
4 Hi.
- - Landon
//////////
On Aug 12, 2011, at 8:33 PM, Mark Wallace wrote:
> Landon -
>
> Do you have the old Spicer 20 T-Case? I think it went with manual
> transmission
> until the end of the 70's. It is a gear driven cast iron case. It
> should also
> be free of silly metric fasteners. The NP chain driven aluminum
> cases are
> light enough that I don't even use a jack to remove them. I think
> there is
> still decent aftermarket support on that case.
>
> The seal that goes over the spline I have been able to find from
> 4x4 specific
> vendors. It seems that NP kept the spline the same for their T-
> Cases for a lot
> of applications because it looks like the exact same part for my
> Daily Driver
> Dodge Dakota (1994 vintage). 4 Wheel Parts warehouse should have
> it. In a
> pinch I have re-used them and been leak free.
>
> I have made a tool that is useful (I have one for the Wag and one
> for the
> Dakota) is a piece of metal that bolts onto the output shafts of
> the t-case
> and rests against the ground (or the workbench) so that you can get
> a wrench
> on the T-case nuts which if memory serves is a 1 1/4 on the NP
> cases. (it is
> actually probably Metric, but I don't have metrics that big). If
> you want a
> picture of it I can do that. My T-case is even on the workbench so
> I can show
> how it works.
>
> Mark Wallace
> 81 Wag
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tesar Landon-R16884 <r16884-at-freescale.com>
> To: Michel Balea <michelbalea-at-gmail.com>; wallacem7
> <wallacem7-at-aol.com>
> Cc: fsj-digest <fsj-digest-at-digest.net>
> Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2011 1:17 pm
> Subject: RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
>
>
> Yes, a puddle of gear lube on the driveway greeted me yesterday
> when I got
> home.
> It's oozing from the front gearshaft seal. There are good pictures
> on the web
> and the shop manual, so may try this myself or may get a used one,
> or both...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf
> Of Michel
> Balea
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:56 PM
> To: wallacem7-at-aol.com
> Cc: fsj-digest-at-digest.net
> Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
>
> Same here for the dry TC, w the 229. It was not dry dry, but I had
> to add 1.5Q
> after I bought it 10 years ago. The driveshaft seals front and
> rear, but the
> tricky part is a felt seal that goes over the spline. It is a $2
> part from the
> dealership only. Probably time to pack a few sets before they are not
> carried.
>
> Cheers
>
> Michel
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:40 AM, wallacem7-at-aol.com
> <wallacem7-at-aol.com>wrote:
>
>> T case out of oil eh? Been there, done that. Three times. Once on the
>> Wag and twice on the Dakota. Check the t case seals...that oil had to
>> go somewhere and I will bet that the t case seals are bad. Also
>> listen
>> for chain slap in the case. That is a tell that the chain is
>> stretched. I have three stretched t case chains serving as decoration
>> on the peg board. T cases are easy to rebuild, but they use silly
>> metric
> fasteners.
>>
>> Driveshaft angle... the pads are welded to the axle. The actual
>> differential angle for a front driveshaft with a double cardan joint
>> is that the driveshaft should come out of the differential straight.
>> So a heavily lifted rig would have a bigger angle than a stock one.
>> The rationale is that Spicer u joints at an angle other than zero
>> take
>> two lined up correctly to balance.
>> Think rear driveshaft. Now the double cardan balances itself so the
>> only way the third u joint can balance is if it has no angle at all.
>>
>> Mark
>> 81 Wag
>>
>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 22:50:18 -0700
From: Jim Blair <carnuck-at-hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
I may have one in my pile. I'm about to do the final countdown on my excess of
parts.
Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10
> To: ltesar3421-at-sbcglobal.net
> Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
> From: wallacem7-at-aol.com
> CC: r16884-at-freescale.com; michelbalea-at-gmail.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net
> Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 00:08:22 -0400
>
> Is it possible that it will just tighten up? I have seen the yoke loose on
> these things and when you get the big wrench out and some locktite you are
> back in business. Or is it the actual driveshaft that has a bad
spline...like
> my front driveshaft which has lived on various workbench second shelves
since
> Clinton was in office. Mine has a bad spline, a word double cardan and is
at
> least an inch too short since I lifted the Wag. When I have some bucks
burning
> a hole in my pocket Santa Fe Auto Machine will make me a new one for $200.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kim Tesar <ltesar3421-at-sbcglobal.net>
> To: Mark Wallace <wallacem7-at-aol.com>
> Cc: r16884 <r16884-at-freescale.com>; michelbalea <michelbalea-at-gmail.com>;
> fsj-digest <fsj-digest-at-digest.net>
> Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2011 8:29 pm
> Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
>
>
> It is the Spicer 20. I'm going to look around and pick a direction.
>
> The cause is the loose front driveshaft spline that wobbles around in
> 4 Hi.
>
> - Landon
>
> //////////
> On Aug 12, 2011, at 8:33 PM, Mark Wallace wrote:
>
> > Landon -
> >
> > Do you have the old Spicer 20 T-Case? I think it went with manual
> > transmission
> > until the end of the 70's. It is a gear driven cast iron case. It
> > should also
> > be free of silly metric fasteners. The NP chain driven aluminum
> > cases are
> > light enough that I don't even use a jack to remove them. I think
> > there is
> > still decent aftermarket support on that case.
> >
> > The seal that goes over the spline I have been able to find from
> > 4x4 specific
> > vendors. It seems that NP kept the spline the same for their T-
> > Cases for a lot
> > of applications because it looks like the exact same part for my
> > Daily Driver
> > Dodge Dakota (1994 vintage). 4 Wheel Parts warehouse should have
> > it. In a
> > pinch I have re-used them and been leak free.
> >
> > I have made a tool that is useful (I have one for the Wag and one
> > for the
> > Dakota) is a piece of metal that bolts onto the output shafts of
> > the t-case
> > and rests against the ground (or the workbench) so that you can get
> > a wrench
> > on the T-case nuts which if memory serves is a 1 1/4 on the NP
> > cases. (it is
> > actually probably Metric, but I don't have metrics that big). If
> > you want a
> > picture of it I can do that. My T-case is even on the workbench so
> > I can show
> > how it works.
> >
> > Mark Wallace
> > 81 Wag
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tesar Landon-R16884 <r16884-at-freescale.com>
> > To: Michel Balea <michelbalea-at-gmail.com>; wallacem7
> > <wallacem7-at-aol.com>
> > Cc: fsj-digest <fsj-digest-at-digest.net>
> > Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2011 1:17 pm
> > Subject: RE: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
> >
> >
> > Yes, a puddle of gear lube on the driveway greeted me yesterday
> > when I got
> > home.
> > It's oozing from the front gearshaft seal. There are good pictures
> > on the web
> > and the shop manual, so may try this myself or may get a used one,
> > or both...
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf
> > Of Michel
> > Balea
> > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:56 PM
> > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com
> > Cc: fsj-digest-at-digest.net
> > Subject: Re: fsj: T case oil and front driveshaft angle
> >
> > Same here for the dry TC, w the 229. It was not dry dry, but I had
> > to add 1.5Q
> > after I bought it 10 years ago. The driveshaft seals front and
> > rear, but the
> > tricky part is a felt seal that goes over the spline. It is a $2
> > part from the
> > dealership only. Probably time to pack a few sets before they are not
> > carried.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Michel
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:40 AM, wallacem7-at-aol.com
> > <wallacem7-at-aol.com>wrote:
> >
> >> T case out of oil eh? Been there, done that. Three times. Once on the
> >> Wag and twice on the Dakota. Check the t case seals...that oil had to
> >> go somewhere and I will bet that the t case seals are bad. Also
> >> listen
> >> for chain slap in the case. That is a tell that the chain is
> >> stretched. I have three stretched t case chains serving as decoration
> >> on the peg board. T cases are easy to rebuild, but they use silly
> >> metric
> > fasteners.
> >>
> >> Driveshaft angle... the pads are welded to the axle. The actual
> >> differential angle for a front driveshaft with a double cardan joint
> >> is that the driveshaft should come out of the differential straight.
> >> So a heavily lifted rig would have a bigger angle than a stock one.
> >> The rationale is that Spicer u joints at an angle other than zero
> >> take
> >> two lined up correctly to balance.
> >> Think rear driveshaft. Now the double cardan balances itself so the
> >> only way the third u joint can balance is if it has no angle at all.
> >>
> >> Mark
> >> 81 Wag
> >>
> >> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
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End of fsj-digest V1 #3765
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