From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jan 25 00:47:00 2012 From: fsj-digest To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:46:31 +0000 Subject: fsj-digest V1 #3846 fsj-digest Wednesday, January 25 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3846 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: free at last... xj rescuses J10... Re: fsj: it's going to snow again... fsj: wiring details - amp gauge bypass fsj: Re: [db] it's going to snow again... fsj: amp gauge bypass RE: fsj: it's going to snow again... fsj: Electrical issues fsj: upcoming fleet change... fsj: AMMETER BYPASS Re: fsj: AMMETER BYPASS fsj: Re: 1980--- j10 FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:48:00 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: free at last... xj rescuses J10... That's why I say I wasn't really stuck. I could have gotten out without the tug and then would have faced extensive yard repair, possible drainfield issues, and even some scratches from the plants at the edge of the garden. The tug provided some vectoring force to help get over the lip. The xj had open axles and mediocre bfg at's. So it wasn't a big tug, just enough. I may put in some anchor points / posts for future use, will also make garden work easier as I can use it to pull up a wagon. :) __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: Michel Balea Sender: owner-fsj-at-digest.net Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 09:51:17 To: Jim Blair; fsgdigestlast last Reply-To: Michel Balea Subject: Re: fsj: free at last... xj rescuses J10... Amazingly you only need a little pull. Last time I was stuck to the axels... after lifting up the tires and putting some rocks, a 4 cyl toyota PU pulled me out. If you cannot dig up the axel such as soft snow, it took a chain of 1 wagoneer and 1 other 4x4 to pull me out of the soft snow, not a plowed section, just an outing on 5' of fresh snow.... Michel On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Jim Blair wrote: > I should've brought over my 33/9.50/15s. They would've got you up the > driveway. Maybe even in 2wd. (I made it to the cabin and back on worse > roads > than your driveway with the 2wd Comanche and it didn't have any leftover > tread > on that set!) > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:00:27 -0800 > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > > To: > > Subject: fsj: free at last... xj rescuses J10... > > > > my son's friend with his old XJ gave me just enough of a tug to break > over > the edge > > of the drive... kind of slid me through the butterfly bush, re-adjusted > my > mirror, > > but didn't leave any permanent marks and I missed the drainfield > distribution box, > > only a few divots to replace... > > > > heading out for an alterntor, used tires with tread, antifreeze and some > MEAT... > > I think we've consumed all the leftovers... :) > > > > I think we'll be able to get one of the cars out of the drive by this > evening... > > the slush is really slick... BFGs on both my son's GW and his friend's XJ > were > > sliding around a lot... the goodyear regattas on my J10 don't work well > on > wet > > road... really struggled to make it to the highway... not coming down the > drive > > until I have better tires or the drive is clear. :) > > > > john > > > > > > > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all > > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS > > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:51:58 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: it's going to snow again... That's helpful. Will dig up what I have. Posts later. It's raining here. __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: Michel Balea Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 10:13:59 To: john Subject: Re: fsj: it's going to snow again... the quick and dirty is to connect both cables on one of the ammeter gauge post. then if you want you can connect an 8 gauge wire from alt to solenoid post. My computer mounting point got corrupted... but if you search for ammeter bypass and dodge you should get some decent pictures. Michel On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 10:07 AM, john wrote: > So where's info on bypassing? :) > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Blair > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:38:50 > To: john Meister > Cc: local Jeep list > Subject: RE: fsj: it's going to snow again... > > > The terminal corrosion is from galvanic ionization, not rust. Happens in > every ammeter that deals with more than 30 amps for any length of time. > That's why I keep saying to bypass them in FSJs, ESPECIALLY if you have a > high output alt. The result is car-b-que if you ignore it. > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 20:35:10 -0800 > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > > Subject: RE: fsj: it's going to snow again... > > > > not much corrosion on this truck... not likely... > > > > I think the full load of fan on full, lights on, wipers on and driving > in snow > > and traffic was just more than the alternator could handle... I'm > thinking > > that a diode shorted, that's what drained my battery... and then > swapping > > batteries I was a little rough on the cables and likely popped the wire > you > > mentioned loose... > > > > so, what's the trick to disabling the amp gauge? I think I did a writeup > once... > > I wonder if I have a volt gauge I could put in there... > > > > the truck is so simple, no a/c, no power locks, no power windows... not > even > > a dome light... need to fix that... > > > > also noticed when I'm in 4wd that there is a light flickering under the > dash, > > I think the bulb fell out of the dash... > > > > > > all the lenses need to be glued in... stereo does some insane things... > like > > power itself up... with the ignition off... I have to pull the > faceplate to > > keep it off... > > > > I think it's time to do some serious maintenance on #27... he's proven > he's worthy. > > even at 8.49mpg... ;) > > > > did you get any of that windshield sealer in? Can you order/buy and > I'll pay ya back? > > you have some scrap metal waiting for you too... ;) > > > > john > > > > > > > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all email: john-at-wagoneers.com > > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS > > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, Jim Blair wrote: > > > > # I forgot about the ammeter issue. Could be the terminal is corroded > almost all > > # the way off! > > # > > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > # > > # > > # > Subject: Re: fsj: it's going to snow again... > > # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net > > # > From: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com > > # > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 04:07:04 +0000 > > # > > > # > That would make sense, I was messing around in there. > > # > > > # > But the alternator was messing up before, too low of voltage at > idle, around > > # 11v. > > # > > > # > Hey, where's the write up on my server to bypass the amp meter? :) > > # > > > # > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > > # > > > # > -----Original Message----- > > # > From: Jim Blair > > # > Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 19:25:41 > > # > To: john Meister; local Jeep list< > fsj-at-digest.net> > > # > Subject: RE: fsj: it's going to snow again... > > # > > > # > > > # > The plug in on the alt may have a broken sense wire causing the > full power > > # charging. > > # > > > # > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > # > > > # > > > # > > Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 19:15:54 -0800 > > # > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > > # > > To: > > # > > Subject: fsj: it's going to snow again... > > # > > > > # > > ...because I didn't buy those studded snow tires. ;) > > # > > > > # > > the alternator on my J10 is charging all the time... almost > pegging the > > # needle, > > # > > picked up a new one, upgraded to 65A from the smallest size... > > # > > > > # > > QUESTION: when an alternator does that, it's the regulator > that's shot, > > # right? > > # > > > > # > > just topped off the tank on the way home, 8.49 mpg... running > good, but > > # the > > # > > stress of getting up the driveway has created some new exhaust > leaks > > # around > > # > > the manifolds... pretty typical... AMC V8s are so much fun... :) > > # > > > > # > > > > # > > I think I may skip the trip to tacoma and forget about the '92 > 300d > > # > > with 275k and the wrong rims/tires... > > # > > ...the guy with the silver 2002 Jetta TDI wagon with a new AT and > 217k got > > # in > > # > > touch, he took it off the market over the holidays... in the 6k > range > > # now... > > # > > I liked the car, had a few little issues... > > # > > > > # > > the AT in the Jetta wagon was properly done by an independent > with an > > # excellent > > # > > reputation; seriously that transmission shifted better than my > Mercedes... > > # the > > # > > car felt good... my '03 Sedan is doing fine, but doesn't feel as > good as > > # the > > # > > wagon does.... love the feaures of the wagon, the rear > compartment below > > # the > > # > > floor is the perfect covered tool box... > > # > > > > # > > QUESTION: thoughts on a 217K Jetta TDI estate vs. a 275k > Mercedes 300D? > > # > > I like both, but think I like the wagon more... > > # > > > > # > > > > # > > my wife wants the '87 300D, it's almost perfect now... few minor > things > > # left > > # > > on it...the '92 looks nice in the pictures but with that many > miles I > > # know > > # > > it should get a timing chain/oil pump chain and ignition switch > at the > > # minimum. > > # > > thinking I saw some body issues in the pictures too... seats are > mildly > > # worn... > > # > > cruise doesn't work... (doesn't in my '87 either) > > # > > > > # > > > > # > > The Jetta estate has about 25k on a new timing belt, new tires, > glow > > # plugs, > > # > > transmission, etc... I miss my TDI wagon... think I'm going to > go for > > # it... > > # > > just haven't told my wife yet. ;) > > # > > > > # > > > > # > > So, I still need to get some decent tires for my '83 J10, or find > the > > # chains > > # > > I have somewhere... hate chains... ...I could mount them on > separate > > # tires... ;) > > # > > > > # > > Made it over the Bratz in Seattle for a Schnitzel and Wurst > fix... doing > > # good now. :) > > # > > > > # > > john > > # > > > > # > > > > # > > ----- > > # > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > # > > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all > > # > > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they > mold > > # > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS > > # > > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM > http://fotomeister.us > > # > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:34:29 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: wiring details - amp gauge bypass found this: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/bypass-amp-gauge.html http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Wiring/ ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:40:17 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] it's going to snow again... did it with three different batteries... :) also, at the onset of this problem something drained the battery overnight... think it's the regulator, possibly a broken wire and maybe the diode pack... we'll see, have the replacement... just need to go out in the wind and rain and replace it... :) reading the wiring diagrams now, going to bypass the factory amp gauge, see if I have a volt gauge laying around... preventing 'car-b-ques'... or roadside events involving marshmellows and old jeeps. http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Wiring/ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/bypass-amp-gauge.html john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 22 Jan 2012, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # > # > QUESTION: when an alternator does that, it's the regulator that's shot, # > right? # *** Generally. Or the battery could have a shorted cell. # # - Jerry # # # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:57:19 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: amp gauge bypass this is from an article michel shared: http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/images/amp-ga27.jpg http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges2.shtml Decided to install 100A fuses in place of the fusible link and then also wire in relays for my headlights, add some interior lights, fix my backup lights and fuel gauge... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 20:00:03 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: it's going to snow again... IIRC, the terminals were 2 different materials and not steel. The wire ends were a different material that caused the anode stud to corrode. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 12:01:55 +1100 > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > From: jeeps_r_us-at-bigpond.com > Subject: RE: fsj: it's going to snow again... > > "Galvanic ionization" , > My wife has that treatment for sinusitis........ no joke :) > That's not to say galvanic corrosion doesn't exist so > don't read me wrong my friend. > > However I think you will find the cause being something > other then "galvanic corrosion". > > From memory the two components used in the terminals are steel > terminals and steel connectors, galvanic corrosion is very unlikely > on two of the same materials, I have owned at least 28 Jeeps (FSJ'S) > and none had a dead amp meter except one and that truck had a 75 > amp alternator, when I eventually pulled the cluster I found the terminals > rusty and the insulation on the wiring distorted (shrunk), I never stripped > the ammeter down, but I did use the alternator in my truck and within a > few months I was out bush 4X4ing with all my spotlights running and the > current draw was a constant 35+ amps (as you said) I smelt the dreaded > carBQ starting up and stopped, I shut everything down and stuck my > hand under the dash feeling for anything hot where upon I burnt my hand > on the loom going directly to the ammeter. > > I turned off my spotlights and ran the truck until it was only pulling 10 amps > checked again it was fine, although the ammeter was not really very accurate > from that time on, I changed it for a digital one to keep using my spotlights. > > But no other Jeeps have given or shown signs of cooking, in the end I put it > down to common sense, if the ammeter only runs up to 35 amps, that's the > max it will take for any period of time. > > So this makes wonder why more and more older cars here in Australia are > catching fire, it's most likely these silly kids with their massive stereos at > full blast draining the bejesus from the electrical system and burning out > the ammeters. > > Terry. > > On 23/01/2012 3:38:50 AM, Jim Blair (carnuck-at-hotmail.com) wrote: > > The terminal corrosion is from galvanic ionization, not rust. Happens in > > every > > ammeter that deals with more than 30 amps for any length of time. > > That's why I > > keep saying to bypass them in FSJs, ESPECIALLY if you have a high > output alt. > > The result is car-b-que if you ignore it. > > > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 > > Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 20:35:10 -0800 > > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > > > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > > > Subject: RE: fsj: > > it's going to snow again... > > > > > > not much corrosion on this truck... not likely... > > > > > > I think the full load of fan on full, lights on, wipers on and driving in > > snow > > > and traffic was just more than the alternator could handle... I'm > > thinking > > > that a diode shorted, > > that's what drained my battery... and then swapping > > > batteries I was a little rough on the cables and likely popped > the wire you > > > mentioned loose... > > > > > > so, what's > > the trick to disabling the amp gauge? I think I did a writeup > > once... > > > I wonder if I have a volt gauge I could put in there... > > > > > > the truck is so simple, no a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 04:09:16 +0000 From: john Subject: fsj: Electrical issues I still am amazed. A blown fuse... Drained the battery. Rube Goldberg would be proud. - ------Original Message------ From: Bruce Caruthers Sender: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net To: dbl ReplyTo: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] it's going to snow again... Sent: Jan 22, 2012 19:39 Of course, then there is my W124, which drained the battery from a blown fuse... :) - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (on loan to neighbors who have even worse cars) (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] On Sun Jan 22, 2012, John Meister wrote: > did it with three different batteries... :) > > also, at the onset of this problem something drained the battery overnight... > think it's the regulator, possibly a broken wire and maybe the diode pack... > > we'll see, have the replacement... just need to go out in the wind and > rain and replace it... :) > > reading the wiring diagrams now, going to bypass the factory amp gauge, see > if I have a volt gauge laying around... > > preventing 'car-b-ques'... or roadside events involving marshmellows and old jeeps. > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Wiring/ > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/bypass-amp-gauge.html > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Sun, 22 Jan 2012, Jerry Kaidor wrote: > > # > > # > QUESTION: when an alternator does that, it's the regulator that's shot, > # > right? > # *** Generally. Or the battery could have a shorted cell. > # > # - Jerry > # > # > # __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:12:35 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: upcoming fleet change... looks like I just bought another Jetta wagon... :) will be selling the white TDI sedan... http://wagoneers.com/tmp/compare-tdis.html didn't make it down to look at the '92 300D... looked like a nice car, but I really liked the silver jetta TDI wagon I had... it's like a portable tool box with a bunch of nice gadgets... my wife will be driving the '87 300D... works for me. Will continue to fix that car as we'll likely take it on any trips. I'm working on the electrical issues on #27, will swap the alternator and fix up the wiring later this week... :) getting ready for the next snow storm, rememember, I didn't get the studded snow tires, so I know we'll get more... ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:35:35 -0700 From: Troy Phagan Subject: fsj: AMMETER BYPASS FYI, AMMETER BYPASS LINKS: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/bypass-amp-gauge.html http://www.drbob.tqhosting.com/tech/ammeter.htm - -- - -Troy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:44:11 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: AMMETER BYPASS thanx! I'm working on some schematics and parts list, also going to setup relays for the headlights while I'm in there... going to use 100A heavy blade fuses instead of fusible links. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 23 Jan 2012, Troy Phagan wrote: # FYI, AMMETER BYPASS LINKS: # # http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/bypass-amp-gauge.html # http://www.drbob.tqhosting.com/tech/ammeter.htm # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:45:57 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 1980--- j10 very nice... some day I'll get my step side back... :) I'm working on some wiring issues on my '83 J10 long bed. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Stef wrote: # John, # # Look this link from a J10 made in 1980 and maybe you can tell me, is those J10 ---> 32.000.= euro's worth # The seller tell he is good as new. # # http://auto.marktplaats.nl/oldtimers/524326663-jeep-j-10-site-step-oldtimer-de-laatste-der-mohikanen.html?return=eJw1jtsOgjAQRP%2FFRN6EthCVEmLwTxqoUukt7BK8xH93m%2BDTztmZzK6SXH6MZA1IUZ7kDrSa%2B7EZEaMsiilE7XOn5gmjVQoh97ZQC4YDFF6vNc9HdPbytC3PBmj9ui87vi%2BvGEjQjAtNRsLStquTNZjNin8LSbwN4RVuA2wNETfbpZxfnJ5Nn9JPQsFEdRSJXkRVeeaiIprS%2BYfWqSpAuiMyc6fXYlxaliEkGQD7MOj2WDO%2Ba74%2FLgpLzw%3D%3D&fta=eNo1j0tygzAQRO%2BiBWtJED49xRV8BUogmSgRRmUJQ%2BLy3SMg3r2emp7uUajwDKjBlrvrHsoFRgEi52Cba0WmQ3tbISjOIL%2BAkxNoBGmbpN9lxK%2F1FK46ucjHNJo8bstk7nYgt0FyWZSS3A%2BKvBayoO8VX8Z4moOFzOyYQrxfWp7FsOMc4jBr05YNF3uVAsyr0TCy6X5ADmb10bESYHnfC9WbfhPXgitjqhNqNZwgcnNA08uPEyp%2B7jRlXWxv%2B%2FkyWJy90qFz5jbGz3diAzaprdtLpFx9zCSYWhld%2FvHBSIHj%2BXr9AcFSZlM%3D&fta_ind=6&fs=1 # # Stef Sliedrecht # # # # ----- # Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht. # Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com # Versie: 2012.0.1901 / Virusdatabase: 2109/4764 - datum van uitgifte: 01/24/12 # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3846 **************************