From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Feb 17 13:55:00 2012
From: fsj-digest <owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net>
To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 21:55:16 +0000
Subject: fsj-digest V1 #3864
fsj-digest Friday, February 17 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3864
Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps
Brian Colucci <ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net>
Digest Coordinator
Contents:
fsj: Amphibious Truck (fwd)
RE: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question
RE: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question
RE: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question
RE: fsj: d44 front axle question
fsj: axle options - swapping adventures...
fsj: Wish I could pick this Honcho up
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:15:13 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com>
Subject: fsj: Amphibious Truck (fwd)
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-ultimate-amphibious-trucks.html
-----
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
-o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com
Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold
http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS
http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:34:29 -0800
From: Jim Blair <carnuck-at-hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question
Too bad about the width differences.
> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:13:02 -0800
> From: john-at-wagoneers.com
> To: xj-at-digest.net
> CC: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net; jeeps_r_us-at-bigpond.com;
vwdoc1-at-gmail.com; d-p-ashby-at-comcast.net
> Subject: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question
>
> update:
> turns out my son wants my 2.72's for his '85 GW. His 85 GW has 3.54 gears.
d44 f /m20 r
>
> he's installed a few lockers and has been personally trained (verbally, when
he was 13 years
> old) by Randy of Randy's Ring and Pinion on how to do a setup... of course
> neither of us remembers exactly how that's supposed to go... but we can
rent
> the tools from Randy's, get the parts needed and deadline both of our
> Jeeps in my carport until rescued by any local friends that actually know
how
> to do it correctly.
>
> not sure when we'll get around to it... engine mods are being discussed as
well...
>
> in the meantime, I need to get mine running... ;)
>
> john
> -----
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com
> Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold
> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS
> http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, john wrote:
> # summary:
> # Current: ds drop d44 f 2.72
> # M20 r 2.72
> # Found: d44 f/r 3.54 J10 pass side drop from 77. For 300 bucks.
> # Plan: swap rear axles, pull r&p front ps drop and have it installed in
my front axle - labor and bearing kit around $600.
> # Net about $600
> # Not sure it's worth the pain and suffering. # The other option is to
switch trans/xfr case.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:17:02 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com>
Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question
yeah...
there's a difference between WT Cheros and J10s as well, right?
john
-----
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
-o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com
Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold
http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS
http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Jim Blair wrote:
# Too bad about the width differences.
#
# > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:13:02 -0800
# > From: john-at-wagoneers.com
# > To: xj-at-digest.net
# > CC: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net; jeeps_r_us-at-bigpond.com;
# vwdoc1-at-gmail.com; d-p-ashby-at-comcast.net
# > Subject: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question
# >
# > update:
# > turns out my son wants my 2.72's for his '85 GW. His 85 GW has 3.54 gears.
# d44 f /m20 r
# >
# > he's installed a few lockers and has been personally trained (verbally, when
# he was 13 years
# > old) by Randy of Randy's Ring and Pinion on how to do a setup... of course
# > neither of us remembers exactly how that's supposed to go... but we can
# rent
# > the tools from Randy's, get the parts needed and deadline both of our
# > Jeeps in my carport until rescued by any local friends that actually know
# how
# > to do it correctly.
# >
# > not sure when we'll get around to it... engine mods are being discussed as
# well...
# >
# > in the meantime, I need to get mine running... ;)
# >
# > john
# > -----
# > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
# > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com
# > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold
# > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS
# > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us
# > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
# > On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, john wrote:
# > # summary:
# > # Current: ds drop d44 f 2.72
# > # M20 r 2.72
# > # Found: d44 f/r 3.54 J10 pass side drop from 77. For 300 bucks.
# > # Plan: swap rear axles, pull r&p front ps drop and have it installed in
# my front axle - labor and bearing kit around $600.
# > # Net about $600
# > # Not sure it's worth the pain and suffering. # The other option is to
# switch trans/xfr case.
#
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:25:09 -0800
From: Jim Blair <carnuck-at-hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question
Only the rear
Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:17:02 -0800
> From: john-at-wagoneers.com
> To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com
> CC: xj-at-digest.net; cj-10list-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net;
jeeps_r_us-at-bigpond.com; vwdoc1-at-gmail.com; d-p-ashby-at-comcast.net
> Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question
>
> yeah...
>
> there's a difference between WT Cheros and J10s as well, right?
>
> john
>
>
>
> -----
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com
> Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold
> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS
> http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Jim Blair wrote:
>
> # Too bad about the width differences.
> #
> # > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:13:02 -0800
> # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com
> # > To: xj-at-digest.net
> # > CC: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net; jeeps_r_us-at-bigpond.com;
> # vwdoc1-at-gmail.com; d-p-ashby-at-comcast.net
> # > Subject: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question
> # >
> # > update:
> # > turns out my son wants my 2.72's for his '85 GW. His 85 GW has 3.54
gears.
> # d44 f /m20 r
> # >
> # > he's installed a few lockers and has been personally trained (verbally,
when
> # he was 13 years
> # > old) by Randy of Randy's Ring and Pinion on how to do a setup... of
course
> # > neither of us remembers exactly how that's supposed to go... but we
can
> # rent
> # > the tools from Randy's, get the parts needed and deadline both of our
> # > Jeeps in my carport until rescued by any local friends that actually
know
> # how
> # > to do it correctly.
> # >
> # > not sure when we'll get around to it... engine mods are being discussed
as
> # well...
> # >
> # > in the meantime, I need to get mine running... ;)
> # >
> # > john
> # > -----
> # >
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> # > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to:
john-at-wagoneers.com
> # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold
> # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS
> # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us
> # >
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> # > On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, john wrote:
> # > # summary:
> # > # Current: ds drop d44 f 2.72
> # > # M20 r 2.72
> # > # Found: d44 f/r 3.54 J10 pass side drop from 77. For 300 bucks.
> # > # Plan: swap rear axles, pull r&p front ps drop and have it installed
in
> # my front axle - labor and bearing kit around $600.
> # > # Net about $600
> # > # Not sure it's worth the pain and suffering. # The other option is
to
> # switch trans/xfr case.
> #
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:34:51 -0800
From: Jim Blair <carnuck-at-hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: fsj: d44 front axle question
I have a Dodge NP208 for only $150. You'd need the rear yoke from your current
one to make it work.
Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10
> Subject: fsj: d44 front axle question
> To: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net;
jeeps_r_us-at-bigpond.com; vwdoc1-at-gmail.com; d-p-ashby-at-comcast.net
> From: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 01:51:39 +0000
>
> summary:
> Current: ds drop d44 f 2.72
> M20 r 2.72
>
> Found: d44 f/r 3.54 J10 pass side drop from 77. For 300 bucks.
>
> Plan: swap rear axles, pull r&p front ps drop and have it installed in my
front axle - labor and bearing kit around $600.
>
> Can sell my axles for about 200-300.
>
> 300+600-300...
>
> Will give me 3.54's, d44's fore and aft,
> Net about $600
>
> Not sure it's worth the pain and suffering.
>
> The other option is to switch trans/xfr case.
>
> John
>
>
> __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "CJSIXER70" <cjsixer-at-gmail.com>
> Sender: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 14:33:57
> To: <CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com>
> Reply-To: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [CJ-10List] Re: d44 front axle question
>
> Yes it is possible to swap over those gears but I would question why you
would go to the trouble to buy an axle just to pull the gears out of. Those
axles bring 100-200 where I live. You can use the same carrier that is
already in your current Dana 44 as the range is 2:72-3:73 and then 3:92-5:38.
So you would litterally be buying that other Dana 44 for a used ring and
pinion. That doesn't make sense.
>
> Full retail through 4wd.com for a 3:54 ring and pinion is about 350 bucks
but that comes with all of the bearings, seals, shims, ring gear bolts and
gaskets you would need EXCEPT for the carrier bearings themselves. Those are
always separate. If you were going to pull the ring and pinion from the donor
axle you would still need to buy all of that stuff which costs over 100
dollars. So subtract the price of a ring and pinion install kit and the price
of the axle you are getting from the cost of the brand new ring and pinion kit
and what are you saving? Even if you are getting the axle for free you could
sell it to help off set the cost of the new gears.
>
> Incidentally the price I came up with of 350 bucks was doing no price
shoping what so ever. I just went to 4wd.com and looked it up. When I had to
replace the axle shafts in my Dana 44 the SET10 timken bearings for the shafts
were on back order. The price to buy these bearngs was CHEAPER through
Autozone than it was for me to buy them at 4wd Hardware and I get employee
pricing(5% Over Cost) because I am a moderator on JeepsUnlimited.com. My
point is that if you do some bargain hunting you could probably knock some
coin off of that 350 dollar number.
>
> --- In CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com, john <john-at-...> wrote:
> >
> > I've found a set of 3.54 axles for my '83 J10... problem is they're from
a '77...
> >
> > currently my 83 J10 has a D44F with 2.72, rear is a M20...
> > even with a healthy 360 V8 2.72s are ludicrous... not even going to do
the math for
> > the top speed on that one... but getting up my driveway with anything
more than
> > a shadow in the back requires low range... freeway economy is decent, but
in town,
> > where this truck lives... is horrifying... I used my Jetta wagon to haul
concrete
> > bags the other day, well, in part because of the electrical issue... :)
> >
> >
> >
> > PROBLEM IS THIS:
> >
> > the axles are from a J10, but an older model with FRONT DROP IS ON THE
PASSENGER SIDE...
> >
> >
> > QUESTION IS:
> >
> > Could those 3.54 gears from the passenger side drop J10 D44 axle be moved
into my
> > driver's side drop J10 D44 axle?
> >
> >
> > I'm thinking it'll cost around $300 to have them setup if it's possible...
then
> > all I need to do is swap the rear axles... and everything will work
better...
> > could even resell my axles to someone with a J10 that has a plan to drive
cross country...
> >
> >
> >
> > If not, then my options include swapping in a TH400/D20 from an older SJ,
> > or better, just getting a 6.2L Diesel out of a Blazer/Suburban and going
that route...
> >
> >
> > simple... keep it simple...
> >
> >
> >
> > can the gears be swapped like that?
> >
> >
> > I'd have about $600 or so into making my J10 a much, much faster and more
economical
> > in town vehicle... I might even see 12 mpg in town!!! :)
> >
> > thanx,
> > john
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com
> > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold
> > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS
> > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:22:51 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at-wagoneers.com>
Subject: fsj: axle options - swapping adventures...
it's always interesting trying to make the bits and pieces you have work
with other bits and pieces...
I have a jeep with 2.72 gears, found a slightly older jeep with 3.54 gears.
problem is the axle drop is on the passenger side instead of the driver's side.
ok... options are available to remedy, just takes money.
1) buy used axles, swap rear axles - no problem, spend $600 to swap
the ring and pinion from the new used to the old used...
2) swap the engine and transmission/xfr case to make use of the new axles. :)
3) spend about $2000 to buy new R&P for existing axles (on a $1500 truck... ;)
4) swap R&P with my son's jeep... about $300 in parts and one of those
priceless experiences of learning a new skill...
and now there is option 5... which I'm sharing as a reality check.
5) a friend has a Dodge NP208 that has a passenger side drop, 21 spline,
same input depth, same fixed yoke spline count, uncertain of
linkage... expect the driveshafts to work - came off of a TF727.
excpected total costs $450 less sale of orignal axles, likely net $150.
So, reality check:
1983 J10 - D44 front, AMC 20 rear, 360 v8/tf727/np208(j)
axles from a '77 J10 - D44 front, d44 rear - unknown drivetrain (irrelevant)
xfr case from Dodge ramcharger tf727/np208(d) ...
If this isn't all an unbolt, disconnect, remove, drop in, bolt, connect, bleed
brakes and go possibility I'm going to leave well enough alone.
So far the only unknown about the dodge np208 is the linkage setup...
I've also remembered that I have an AW4 with a custom, expensive adapter
to mate to jeep transfer cases... so I could drop an XJ 4.0 into my J10,
or if I can find an adapater to mate an OM617 to an AW4, go with a 3.0L TD benz
setup...
the question is... will it all actually work and go together as expected...
after years of this kind of insanity, I'm guessing it won't... and that's why
I've asked for the reality check... there's always a 'gotcha'. :)
I'm sure there are others out there that want to build the ideal vehicle,
there's good and bad with every vehicle... if we can take the best from
several and build one good one, we'll be happy.... right? ;)
john
-----
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
-o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com
Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold
http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS
http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 13:54:50 -0800
From: Jim Blair <carnuck-at-hotmail.com>
Subject: fsj: Wish I could pick this Honcho up
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-Jeep-J10-pickup-/330687831630?pt=US_Cars_
Trucks&hash=item4cfe87de4e
Only $2,000 buy it now but it's in VA
------------------------------
End of fsj-digest V1 #3864
**************************