From owner-fsj-digest@digest.net Thu Jan 3 07:57:34 2013 From: fsj-digest To: fsj-digest@digest.net Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 15:56:49 +0000 Subject: fsj-digest V1 #4005 fsj-digest Thursday, January 3 2013 Volume 01 : Number 4005 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: mpg question fsj: RE: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... RE: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:00:38 -0200 From: Ernesto Silva Subject: fsj: mpg question Hi guys, a friend of mine is watching jeeps from 1995 to 2000. I don't know the exact model but I just need an approximation of the fuel consumption. Here is a sample of what he is looking for: http://camioneta.mercadolibre.com.uy/MLU-405509117-jeep-cherokee-sport-full-impecable-_JM Ernesto. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 07:11:03 -0600 From: "Potter, Tom E" Subject: fsj: RE: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... The 80s Oldsmobile diesels had hydraboost. Mine seemed to work fine; I had no problems with it. Thomas E. Potter - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj@digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj@digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:33 PM To: full size jeep list Cc: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com Subject: fsj: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... 1) my son's '85 GW choked on a lifter in hole #5, camshaft snapped at #2. No worries, he's building a 4 bolt 350 (in his apartment!) for about 500hp to install... he wants to clean the engine compartment out... saw the big brake booster and master cylinder... made some comment about manual brakes which I highly discouraged... and suggested a hydroboost setup... Pictures to follow... (I'm not active on the list of yahoos... in digest mode there... will share with the fsj list on digest.net later, I'll let a yahoo post it... :) kind of cool shots of the broken lifter and flat cam lobes... engine had just under 200k... WHICH LEADS to TWO things: 1) where can we get a complete hydraboost setup? 2) does anyone want to buy the stock setup out of his '85 GW - or any other engine type stuff (I've got the a/c setup for my '83 J10). 2) my axle swap is complete on my '83 J10 long bed... swapped out the 2.72 gears for 3.31's... got the axles from Jim Blair... turned out the original owner installed the rear brakes wrong... long shoe in the front... short in back... brakes did not work properly on my test... noticed a leaking wheel cylinder when I went to flip the shoes around... so, taking it into les schwab tomorrow... all new shoes, cylinders and have the front end aligned... http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/J10-axle-swap-Dec-2012/ALL.html (can't find the pictures of the rear axle now...) THIS ACTION SHOULD ALSO PREVENT SNOW IN THE SEATTLE AREA... you can thank me later... 3) rewired under the hood of my '83 J10 this summer... I used most of the new harness from zach, but the new harness from zm jeeps had two complications, one it was for a '79 and two it required changing connectors on accessories like wiper motors, ignition modules and such - which means that if I ever replaced that stuff I'd have to mess around changing connectors... while the new connectors were superb, I opted NOT to do that change... And because the '79 and '83 are different on TWO OR THREE pins, and those pins happen to be high current pins... I ended up creating a hybrid harness using bits and pieces of both... I spent 8 hours going through schematics, pin by freaking pin... not fun... of course factory manuals don't go into a great deal of detail on things like ballast resistors and resistive wire for the alternator... bottom line, if you have a '79 or comparable that harness would be great, except for the new style connectors for the wiper/ignition/etc. The wire is of excellent quality and it's assembled nicely. Accurate lengths. - - if you have a different year like I did, then I'd suggest a different strategy... I spent WAY TOO MUCH TIME WITH WIRING DIAGRAMS sorting things out... I can't find my pictures, still need to do the write up... I would NOT have been able to fix my truck without that wiring harness though... but my truck had been messed up bad by a PO who thought it was a Ford... IF YOU ARE FACED with just bad wires in a "good" wiring harness - replace each wire ONE at a time... my problem was the PO really loused up the wiring harness... snip-snip... I'm pretty sure who ever owned it before drove a FORD because the logic that went into some of this stuff reminds me of my Ford vehicles... not saying the truck was abused, just confused. :) While I had to spend a lot of time hacking up an expensive harness from a '79, it worked out ok... But, if you have a functional harness, replace ONE wire at a time... if it's confused... get a shop manual/wiring diagram and either figure out the current wiring diagram or depending on the year buy a new harness... you have two options... the high quality harness from zmjeeps or the painless wiring... both are expensive... the painless wiring is kind of an open ended thing... you have to make your own connectors, cut to length, etc.... when I was rewiring one Jeep that came with a painless kit... I looked at it, looked at the jeep... sold the kit and did my own wiring, and saved myself a lot of time and money... UNLESS THE KIT IS FOR THE SPECIFIC YEAR, MODEL and options AND you have an accurate wiring diagram I'd avoid any of the kits... you'd be better off getting a harness out of a wrecking yard and splitting it open and repairing it and using it... I still have to rewire under the dash/cab... it's a real mess... no kits... I'm on my own... been there done that... 4) http://fotomeister.us/2012/09-Sep-29-J10-waterPump/ALL.html - you should be able to see the wiring updates... ;) I thought my new water pump was leaking... turned out that the hose clamps needed to be retightened!!! I've been wrenching for 40 years... have never had a problem with clamps not being tight enough or having to retighten... talked to another mechanic this morning and he said he's found the same thing to be true, had to retighten hose clamps again... we're guessing it's the hoses themselves... different material... perhaps better? 5) still trying to have curtis call or answer his phone so I can gather up all the bits and pieces of my '83 J10 stepside out Centralia... been apart since 2001... :( the sd33T is in the frame, bits and pieces painted but not reassembled... if anyone is near Centralia, WA let me know, maybe you could stop by and say howdy for me and let Curtis know I want to pick up all my spare parts and pieces of the J10... it but I figure 12 years is long enough to wait... Not looking forward to reassembling something I didn't take apart... hoping he'll at least put the glass back in the cab so I can leave it in the driveway to work on it... Either way, I just reinstalled the hitch on my J10, getting the brakes fixed tomorrow... will wire up the trailer lights and fix the cab wiring so I can drive it down to retrieve superdawg... or just get help from a few friends with big Diesel trucks... might have to do a convoy... depending on how many pieces superdawg is still in... :( This is the last set of pictures: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/SuperDawg/2011_August_7-frame-done-engine-in-bod ypainting/ALL.html happy new year... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - Trust Jesus - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:53:11 +0000 From: "john" Subject: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... Was thinking more along the lines of new parts or a kit. Thought I heard about such. Had an 80 olds Diesel, the brakes were amazing in that car. Also doesn't the chevy astro van use it too? Thanx Tom, John ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" - Theodore Roosevelt ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## - -----Original Message----- From: "Potter, Tom E" Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 07:11:03 To: john; full size jeep list Cc: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... The 80s Oldsmobile diesels had hydraboost. Mine seemed to work fine; I had no problems with it. Thomas E. Potter - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj@digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj@digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:33 PM To: full size jeep list Cc: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com Subject: fsj: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... 1) my son's '85 GW choked on a lifter in hole #5, camshaft snapped at #2. No worries, he's building a 4 bolt 350 (in his apartment!) for about 500hp to install... he wants to clean the engine compartment out... saw the big brake booster and master cylinder... made some comment about manual brakes which I highly discouraged... and suggested a hydroboost setup... Pictures to follow... (I'm not active on the list of yahoos... in digest mode there... will share with the fsj list on digest.net later, I'll let a yahoo post it... :) kind of cool shots of the broken lifter and flat cam lobes... engine had just under 200k... WHICH LEADS to TWO things: 1) where can we get a complete hydraboost setup? 2) does anyone want to buy the stock setup out of his '85 GW - or any other engine type stuff (I've got the a/c setup for my '83 J10). 2) my axle swap is complete on my '83 J10 long bed... swapped out the 2.72 gears for 3.31's... got the axles from Jim Blair... turned out the original owner installed the rear brakes wrong... long shoe in the front... short in back... brakes did not work properly on my test... noticed a leaking wheel cylinder when I went to flip the shoes around... so, taking it into les schwab tomorrow... all new shoes, cylinders and have the front end aligned... http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/J10-axle-swap-Dec-2012/ALL.html (can't find the pictures of the rear axle now...) THIS ACTION SHOULD ALSO PREVENT SNOW IN THE SEATTLE AREA... you can thank me later... 3) rewired under the hood of my '83 J10 this summer... I used most of the new harness from zach, but the new harness from zm jeeps had two complications, one it was for a '79 and two it required changing connectors on accessories like wiper motors, ignition modules and such - which means that if I ever replaced that stuff I'd have to mess around changing connectors... while the new connectors were superb, I opted NOT to do that change... And because the '79 and '83 are different on TWO OR THREE pins, and those pins happen to be high current pins... I ended up creating a hybrid harness using bits and pieces of both... I spent 8 hours going through schematics, pin by freaking pin... not fun... of course factory manuals don't go into a great deal of detail on things like ballast resistors and resistive wire for the alternator... bottom line, if you have a '79 or comparable that harness would be great, except for the new style connectors for the wiper/ignition/etc. The wire is of excellent quality and it's assembled nicely. Accurate lengths. - - if you have a different year like I did, then I'd suggest a different strategy... I spent WAY TOO MUCH TIME WITH WIRING DIAGRAMS sorting things out... I can't find my pictures, still need to do the write up... I would NOT have been able to fix my truck without that wiring harness though... but my truck had been messed up bad by a PO who thought it was a Ford... IF YOU ARE FACED with just bad wires in a "good" wiring harness - replace each wire ONE at a time... my problem was the PO really loused up the wiring harness... snip-snip... I'm pretty sure who ever owned it before drove a FORD because the logic that went into some of this stuff reminds me of my Ford vehicles... not saying the truck was abused, just confused. :) While I had to spend a lot of time hacking up an expensive harness from a '79, it worked out ok... But, if you have a functional harness, replace ONE wire at a time... if it's confused... get a shop manual/wiring diagram and either figure out the current wiring diagram or depending on the year buy a new harness... you have two options... the high quality harness from zmjeeps or the painless wiring... both are expensive... the painless wiring is kind of an open ended thing... you have to make your own connectors, cut to length, etc.... when I was rewiring one Jeep that came with a painless kit... I looked at it, looked at the jeep... sold the kit and did my own wiring, and saved myself a lot of time and money... UNLESS THE KIT IS FOR THE SPECIFIC YEAR, MODEL and options AND you have an accurate wiring diagram I'd avoid any of the kits... you'd be better off getting a harness out of a wrecking yard and splitting it open and repairing it and using it... I still have to rewire under the dash/cab... it's a real mess... no kits... I'm on my own... been there done that... 4) http://fotomeister.us/2012/09-Sep-29-J10-waterPump/ALL.html - you should be able to see the wiring updates... ;) I thought my new water pump was leaking... turned out that the hose clamps needed to be retightened!!! I've been wrenching for 40 years... have never had a problem with clamps not being tight enough or having to retighten... talked to another mechanic this morning and he said he's found the same thing to be true, had to retighten hose clamps again... we're guessing it's the hoses themselves... different material... perhaps better? 5) still trying to have curtis call or answer his phone so I can gather up all the bits and pieces of my '83 J10 stepside out Centralia... been apart since 2001... :( the sd33T is in the frame, bits and pieces painted but not reassembled... if anyone is near Centralia, WA let me know, maybe you could stop by and say howdy for me and let Curtis know I want to pick up all my spare parts and pieces of the J10... it but I figure 12 years is long enough to wait... Not looking forward to reassembling something I didn't take apart... hoping he'll at least put the glass back in the cab so I can leave it in the driveway to work on it... Either way, I just reinstalled the hitch on my J10, getting the brakes fixed tomorrow... will wire up the trailer lights and fix the cab wiring so I can drive it down to retrieve superdawg... or just get help from a few friends with big Diesel trucks... might have to do a convoy... depending on how many pieces superdawg is still in... :( This is the last set of pictures: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/SuperDawg/2011_August_7-frame-done-engine-in-bodypainting/ALL.html happy new year... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - Trust Jesus - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 07:56:44 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... Elliot on IFSJA has Hydroboost kits for FSJs. > Subject: fsj: Re: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... > To: Tom.E.Potter@Williams.com; fsj@digest.net > CC: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com > From: john@wagoneers.com > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:53:11 +0000 > > Was thinking more along the lines of new parts or a kit. Thought I heard about such. > > Had an 80 olds Diesel, the brakes were amazing in that car. Also doesn't the chevy astro van use it too? > > Thanx Tom, > John > ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible > is worth more than a college education" > - Theodore Roosevelt > > ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Potter, Tom E" > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 07:11:03 > To: john; full size jeep list > Cc: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... > > The 80s Oldsmobile diesels had hydraboost. Mine seemed to work fine; I had no problems with it. > > Thomas E. Potter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj@digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj@digest.net] On Behalf Of john > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:33 PM > To: full size jeep list > Cc: FSJ-List@yahoogroups.com > Subject: fsj: brake boosters - engine/axle swaps/wiring/water pumps... > > 1) my son's '85 GW choked on a lifter in hole #5, camshaft snapped at #2. No worries, he's building a 4 bolt 350 (in his apartment!) for about 500hp to install... he wants to clean the engine compartment out... saw the big brake booster and master cylinder... > made some comment about manual brakes which I highly discouraged... and suggested a hydroboost setup... > > Pictures to follow... (I'm not active on the list of yahoos... in digest mode there... will share with the fsj list on digest.net later, > I'll let a yahoo post it... :) kind of cool shots of the broken lifter and flat cam lobes... engine had just under 200k... > > WHICH LEADS to TWO things: > 1) where can we get a complete hydraboost setup? > 2) does anyone want to buy the stock setup out of his '85 GW > - or any other engine type stuff (I've got the a/c setup for my '83 J10). > > > 2) my axle swap is complete on my '83 J10 long bed... swapped out the 2.72 gears for 3.31's... got the axles from Jim Blair... > turned out the original owner installed the rear brakes wrong... long shoe in the front... short in back... brakes did not work properly on my test... noticed a leaking wheel cylinder when I went to flip the shoes around... > so, taking it into les schwab tomorrow... all new shoes, cylinders and have the front end aligned... > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/J10-axle-swap-Dec-2012/ALL.html > (can't find the pictures of the rear axle now...) > > THIS ACTION SHOULD ALSO PREVENT SNOW IN THE SEATTLE AREA... you can thank me later... > > > 3) rewired under the hood of my '83 J10 this summer... I used most of the new harness from zach, but the new harness from zm jeeps had two complications, one it was for a '79 and two it required changing connectors on accessories like wiper motors, ignition modules and such - which means that if I ever replaced that stuff I'd have to mess around changing connectors... while the new connectors were superb, I opted NOT to do that change... And because the '79 and '83 are different on TWO OR THREE pins, and those pins happen to be high current pins... I ended up creating a hybrid harness using bits and pieces of both... I spent 8 hours going through schematics, pin by freaking pin... not fun... of course factory manuals don't go into a great deal of detail on things like ballast resistors and resistive wire for the alternator... > > bottom line, if you have a '79 or comparable that harness would be great, except for the new style connectors for the wiper/ignition/etc. The wire is of excellent quality and it's assembled nicely. Accurate lengths. > - if you have a different year like I did, then I'd suggest a different strategy... I spent WAY TOO MUCH TIME WITH WIRING DIAGRAMS sorting things out... I can't find my pictures, still need to do the write up... I would NOT have been able to fix my truck without that wiring harness though... but my truck had been messed up bad by a PO who thought it was a Ford... > > IF YOU ARE FACED with just bad wires in a "good" wiring harness - replace each wire ONE at a time... my problem was the PO really loused up the wiring harness... snip-snip... I'm pretty sure who ever owned it before drove a FORD because the logic that went into > some of this stuff reminds me of my Ford vehicles... not saying the truck was abused, just confused. :) While I had to spend a lot > of time hacking up an expensive harness from a '79, it worked out ok... > > But, if you have a functional harness, replace ONE wire at a time... if it's confused... get a shop manual/wiring diagram and either figure out the current wiring diagram or depending on the year buy a new harness... you have two options... the high quality harness from zmjeeps or the painless wiring... both are expensive... the painless wiring is kind of an open ended thing... you have to make your own connectors, cut to length, etc.... when I was rewiring one Jeep that came with a painless kit... I looked at it, looked at the jeep... sold the kit and did my own wiring, and saved myself a lot of time and money... UNLESS THE KIT IS FOR THE SPECIFIC YEAR, MODEL and options AND you have an accurate wiring diagram I'd avoid any of the kits... you'd be better off getting a harness out of a wrecking yard and splitting it open and repairing it and using it... > > I still have to rewire under the dash/cab... it's a real mess... no kits... I'm on my own... been there done that... > > > 4) http://fotomeister.us/2012/09-Sep-29-J10-waterPump/ALL.html - you should be able to see the wiring updates... ;) > I thought my new water pump was leaking... turned out that the hose clamps needed to be retightened!!! I've been wrenching for 40 years... have never had a problem with clamps not being tight enough or having to retighten... talked to another mechanic this morning and he said he's found the same thing to be true, had to retighten hose clamps again... we're guessing it's the hoses themselves... different material... perhaps better? > > > 5) still trying to have curtis call or answer his phone so I can gather up all the bits and pieces of my '83 J10 stepside out Centralia... been apart since 2001... :( the sd33T is in the frame, bits and pieces painted but not reassembled... > if anyone is near Centralia, WA let me know, maybe you could stop by and say howdy for me and let Curtis know I want to pick up all my spare parts and pieces of the J10... it but I figure 12 years is long enough to wait... Not looking forward to reassembling something I didn't take apart... hoping he'll at least put the glass back in the cab so I can leave it in the driveway to work on it... Either way, I just reinstalled the hitch on my J10, getting the brakes fixed tomorrow... will wire up the trailer lights and fix the cab wiring so I can drive it down to retrieve superdawg... or just get help from a few friends with big Diesel trucks... might have to do a convoy... depending > on how many pieces superdawg is still in... :( This is the last set of pictures: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/SuperDawg/2011_August_7-frame-done-engine-in-bodypai nting/ALL.html > > happy new year... > > john > > ----- > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" > Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - Trust Jesus > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #4005 **************************